Prospect Info: General Discussion of Prospects

[sabremike]

He lays out a well reasoned argument for why he wasn't as high on Samuelsson as others and views him topping out as a bottom pairing dman. But there is little point to that quote other than to troll and get people to listen. Mission accomplished since I did.

But it's obvious that his size was his biggest attribute, and when you draft guys whose big selling point is size history has shown you are making a bad mistake. You can draft a guy who makes Andre The Giant look like Sky Low Low but if his actual skill level isn't NHL level and never will be it doesn't matter. Reminds me of Mike Adamle doing commentary for WWE and saying one of the most insightful things ever: " A small man has to prove he can play, a big man has to prove he can't play".

 

[Dirty Dog]

But it's obvious that his size was his biggest attribute, and when you draft guys whose big selling point is size history has shown you are making a bad mistake. You can draft a guy who makes Andre The Giant look like Sky Low Low but if his actual skill level isn't NHL level and never will be it doesn't matter. Reminds me of Mike Adamle doing commentary for WWE and saying one of the most insightful things ever: " A small man has to prove he can play, a big man has to prove he can't play".

Oh please. If Andre the Giant could skate (regardless of his skill level) than you better damn believe he is on my team!!!

 

[flashsabre]

Turcotte was well liked here at the time of the draft (including by myself). Cozens not so much.

At this point would you take Turcotte over Cozens if you had the opportunity? Cozens had a great D+1, Turcotte struggled (at least on the stat sheet).

I never understood the Cozens hate pre draft. I would take Cozens again, I think he brings everything Turcotte does but in a much bigger frame. Cozens had a great season post draft. Turcotte was in a weird spot as Wisconsin seemed like a tire fire this year. Cozens had the better WJC for whatever that is worth which is not much in the long run.

 

[joshjull]

But it's obvious that his size was his biggest attribute, and when you draft guys whose big selling point is size history has shown you are making a bad mistake. You can draft a guy who makes Andre The Giant look like Sky Low Low but if his actual skill level isn't NHL level and never will be it doesn't matter. Reminds me of Mike Adamle doing commentary for WWE and saying one of the most insightful things ever: " A small man has to prove he can play, a big man has to prove he can't play".

Size and strength were definitely big reasons he got drafted but not the entire story.
​

Most prospect guides listed Samuelsson's positives as being a smart defensive dman who uses his size well, is good 1 on 1, plays with a nasty edge but doesn't run around trying to hit people, had a good first pass, a good shot and considered a very good leader. Negatives would be his overall offensive game was a work in progress. Some felt he had upside but the consensus on that was mixed. While his skating was good for a guy his size it may need work to make NHL.

Its worth pointing out that its not often you can draft a kid who is already 6'4" 218lbs. Plus skates as well as he already does with that size (even with the need for some improvement). A 6' 190lb version of him wouldn't be him. It would be a completely different player. Which is why that guy bringing it up was so pointless. I mean Olofsson probably wouldn't be in the NHL if he didn't have that elite shot. But he does have that shot. So who cares where he would be without it.

I have no idea how things will turn out with Samuelsson. We'll have to wait and see as he develops in Rochester. But I do know the bar isn't that high for his skating to make the NHL because of his size. He was drafted at 6'4" 218lbs and is probably already bigger than that (his Dad was 6'6 or 6'7" and around 230-235lbs). There is a decent sized list of defensive dmen who weren't the greatest skaters but played for years in the NHL (even in this era). Most were very physical but some were not (like Hal Gill). Most used some combo of their reach, size/strength and/or a nasty edge to their game to be effective. They're mostly #4-7 dmen

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-goalie-prospect-erik-portillo-named-ushl-all-star/

 

[Club]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

I wonder how many guys in Rochester have the mindset that John Scott talks about at the end of this clip?

 

[jc17]

Just floating this out there, I'm still not sold on cozens. Hope I'm wrong of course.

I know he had a good year but I dont see him being a future quality 2C. Wondering if anyone else feels similarly?

 

[hizzoner]

Just floating this out there, I'm still not sold on cozens. Hope I'm wrong of course.

I know he had a good year but I dont see him being a future quality 2C. Wondering if anyone else feels similarly?

I have liked everything I have seen of him. He is a terrific passer, has great vision, plays both ends of the rink. strong skater with good size and never quits. We have nothing in the system that is anywhere close to him other than Eichel--and I have to think Reinhart does not have the wheels to play the C role expected these days.

 

[Jim Bob]

Just floating this out there, I'm still not sold on cozens. Hope I'm wrong of course.

I know he had a good year but I dont see him being a future quality 2C. Wondering if anyone else feels similarly?

What makes you say that?

I think he would fit in quite well between Skinner and Reinhart.

Just get someone that can play wing with Eichel and VO and the top two scoring lines are solid, IMO.

For me, the dream is Raymond falling to the Sabres in the draft. He would be a great fit with VO & Eichel. Or even as the other winger with Skinner and Cozens if they want to keep Reinhart with Eichel.

 

[jc17]

What makes you say that?

I think he would fit in quite well between Skinner and Reinhart.

Just get someone that can play wing with Eichel and VO and the top two scoring lines are solid, IMO.

For me, the dream is Raymond falling to the Sabres in the draft. He would be a great fit with VO & Eichel. Or even as the other winger with Skinner and Cozens if they want to keep Reinhart with Eichel.

Just from the little I've seen of him, so its not an opinion I feel incredibly strong about, but the doubts about his mental speed are still there.

Watching some of the WJC and his WHL clips I think he looks at his best carrying the puck, using his size and strength to beat defenders but that he doesnt always know where to go with it or make the right decision fast enough. For me at least, the WJC games kind of highlight this because of the relative skill level in the game. I just remember thinking there were a number of plays that died on his stick compared to his teammates.

So I kind of stand by my draft opinion that I dont think he'll bust or anything but not sure if he'll be a great 2C.

Lethbridge Hurricanes Lethbridge is posting game videos so I'll have to watch more and see if I feel differently.

 

[Jim Bob]

Just from the little I've seen of him, so its not an opinion I feel incredibly strong about, but the doubts about his mental speed are still there.

Watching some of the WJC and his WHL clips I think he looks at his best carrying the puck, using his size and strength to beat defenders but that he doesnt always know where to go with it or make the right decision fast enough. For me at least, the WJC games kind of highlight this because of the relative skill level in the game. I just remember thinking there were a number of plays that died on his stick compared to his teammates.

So I kind of stand by my draft opinion that I dont think he'll bust or anything but not sure if he'll be a great 2C.

Lethbridge Hurricanes Lethbridge is posting game videos so I'll have to watch more and see if I feel differently.

The flip side is that he has the puck on his stick a lot, so...

Hockey IQ is certainly one of the areas of his game that lags behind the physical side. But, that's why I think he would fit in nicely with Skinner and Reinhart.

 

[jc17]

Yeah, its getting the puck to skinner and reinhart that would be the concern, but if he's battling and opening space for those guys I think you'er right that it could be a good fit.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, its getting the puck to skinner and reinhart that would be the concern, but if he's battling and opening space for those guys I think you'er right that it could be a good fit.

I wouldn't be worried about.

Those two guys are way smarter than probably anyone that Cozens has played with the past two season.

 

[Fezzy126]

Bakes releasing his annual prospect rankings:

1. Cozens
2. UPL
3. Samuelsson
   
4. Johnson
5. Borgen
6. Ruotsalainen
   
7. Asplund
   
8. Bryson
   
9. Pekar
   
10. Davidsson

He also posted a list of 5 closest to the NHL

1. Cozens
2. Borgen
3. Ruotsalainen
   
4. Asplun
5. Bryson

 

[jc17]

Johnson and Samuelsson above Borgen and Asplund is definitely not something you see around here very often

 

[Fezzy126]

Johnson and Samuelsson above Borgen and Asplund is definitely not something you see around here very often

I think it's all about how you perceive floor vs ceiling when assessing prospects. For example, Johnson & Samuelsson will play in the league, they are almost certainly NHLers based on family lineage, hockey background, support system, skillset, body-type, and hockey IQ.

But there were definitely known strikes against them; Samuelsson carrying the label as a defensive defenseman that doesn't score much or transition with possession, and Johnson with a lack of scoring that should go naturally with his ability to skate. I think most fans tend to get stuck on those first impression scouting reports. But if you told fans that Samuelsson would turn into Mattias Ekholm, whose scouting report was a step below his, I think they would be pretty happy with the pick and have a different view of his ceiling as a prospect.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I’m really hoping R2 comes to camp and earns a spot on L3.

 

[flashsabre]

Bakes releasing his annual prospect rankings:

1. Cozens
2. UPL
3. Samuelsson
   
4. Johnson
5. Borgen
6. Ruotsalainen
   
7. Asplund
   
8. Bryson
   
9. Pekar
   
10. Davidsson

He also posted a list of 5 closest to the NHL

1. Cozens
2. Borgen
3. Ruotsalainen
   
4. Asplun
5. Bryson

“Outside of Cozens there are no top 6 forwards there”
Guarantee they take Sanderson at #7

 

[Dirty Dog]

“Outside of Cozens there are no top 6 forwards there”
Guarantee they take Sanderson at #7

haha, totally. We need a top six center in the worst way. #shocker

 

[joshjull]

Bakes releasing his annual prospect rankings:

1. Cozens
2. UPL
3. Samuelsson
   
4. Johnson
5. Borgen
6. Ruotsalainen
   
7. Asplund
   
8. Bryson
   
9. Pekar
   
10. Davidsson

He also posted a list of 5 closest to the NHL

1. Cozens
2. Borgen
3. Ruotsalainen
   
4. Asplun
5. Bryson

“Does he have to be in Rochester the full year? No. But I think that should be your base expectation again, start setting the bar lower for guys and let them overachieve.”

Great comment here from Bakes.

 

[joshjull]

Just floating this out there, I'm still not sold on cozens. Hope I'm wrong of course.

I know he had a good year but I dont see him being a future quality 2C. Wondering if anyone else feels similarly?

Depends on how you define what a "quality 2C" is.

I envision Cozens being a good but not great 5v5 offensive player with a strong defensive game who can be effective in all situations (PK/PP/OT/goalie pulled). Because of that I envision his impact at center ranging from Jordan Staal to Chris Drury. Where he falls in that range will obviously depend on usage, linemates, PP impact, etc.

 

[jc17]

Depends on how you define what a "quality 2C" is.

I envision Cozens being a good but not great 5v5 offensive player with a strong defensive game who can be effective in all situations (PK/PP/OT/goalie pulled). Because of that I envision his impact at center ranging from Jordan Staal to Chris Drury. Where he falls in that range will obviously depend on usage, linemates, PP impact, etc.

I guess thats fair. I got the impression that a good chunk of people think of him as pretty strong offensively, which I dont see happening. I think Drury might be a little past his ceiling, but that doesnt mean he'll be bad. I guess his offense will depend a little on who he plays with.

 

[Brock]

My annual look at Buffalo's OHL prospects. Just Pekar this year.

Included some good videos in that twitter thread too.