Gardiner Thoughts

[drewjenks]

Love him or hate him (usually both over the span of a shift) you have to accept Gardiner for what he is.

An Elite Elite offensive dman who can start the transition, and play in the offensive zone, but makes bone headed mistakes.

He makes up for the mistakes most of the time, and as frustrating as he is, he’s an important part of this team, our D would be garbage without him anchoring the second pairing.

Yes Dermott can replace him, but why not have 3 good d-men? Dermott could eventually see time with Rielly imo.

I think the problem is we'll only have 3 good d-men for a year.

I'd rather have Nutivarra for 4 years than Gards for 1.

 

[sxvnert]

Fine @ 4.6 but not on a long term @ 6-7m. Leafs need to bring in another RD this summer.

Rielly RHD
Dermott Zaitsev

 

[Goonface2k14]

Too risky to keep.

He makes a lot of slick plays, seems like a good hearted kid, but he simply costs us dearly with his brutal mistakes at the most inopportune times.

At the end of the day, the Toronto sports market isn’t for everyone. He needs to go to an NHL market with much, much less of a spotlight. It’ll be better for everyone.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Fine @ 4.6 but not on a long term @ 6-7m. Leafs need to bring in another RD this summer.

Rielly RHD
Dermott Zaitsev

They had space this year.

None were available

 

[LeafFever]

With all the talk of losing Nylander, it's really Gardiner that has zero chance of returning. Just not enough $ for what he brings.
I am not convinced Dubas is like Lou as well. I don't think he'll want to lose Gardiner for nothing.

 

[al secord]

lol..." Gardiner Thoughts"....I just got that.

 

[LeafFever]

JVR all over again

And for a D, he's very one-dimensional. Don't keep players like that on big contracts.
Passing on JVR looks fine right now, doesn't it?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

As much as I absolutely love the good side of Gardiner, the bad side of Gardiner infuriates me no end! I can't see our Leafs having him on our blue line at anything over $5.0M.

For every point he helps generate offensively, he likely costs 2 defensively.

Dubas should be looking to unload him for a D prospect and draft picks. JMHO.

Comments like the bolded above are infuriating. Throughout his time with the Leafs, they score more goals with Gardiner on the ice than without (around 51.44%). He's been the best on the team by a WIDE margin. Rielly was at about 45% going into this season.

Jake has his warts, but people who think he costs more goals than he contributes to are so wrong, it's painful.

 

[ShaneFalco]

And for a D, he's very one-dimensional. Don't keep players like that on big contracts.
Passing on JVR looks fine right now, doesn't it?

Would have looked better if they traded him and got a nice return.

 

[Fogelhund]

Comments like the bolded above are infuriating. Throughout his time with the Leafs, they score more goals with Gardiner on the ice than without (around 51.44%). He's been the best on the team by a WIDE margin. Rielly was at about 45% going into this season.

Jake has his warts, but people who think he costs more goals than he contributes to are so wrong, it's painful.

I'd say this is mostly accurate, though with an asterisk. Gardiner does look like he's the best D on the team, though it's most often because he doesn't face the toughest matchups. Rielly and his partner do. Gardiner has been asked to do some pretty heavy lifting this year though, and has approx 60% Dzone starts, while Mo is 40% Dzone starts. They are challenging Gardiner on his game, and it's taking him time to adjust... plus, for whatever reasons, it takes him a couple of months to be the quality of D, that he can be. Every year, October, November, we are calling for his head... three years in a row now.. and every year, he excels by the new year, and throughout the balance of the year, and likely will this year too... He's a quality Dman, though I'm not sure we can afford him going forward, better to upgrade the RHD, and allow Dermott more time, whom I think will end up being a superb defender for us. (though not the same offensive upside)

 

[lebdafor norris]

Explain Riellys trending upwards defensive game since Babcock (who is a systematic defense first coach) arrived?

Gardiner's high danger scoring chances against was significantly lower than Rielly's during last season actually. Seriously, I love both Dmen but I don't agree with the whole Gardiner is a bottom pairing Dman when it comes to "defence" narrative, his actually been the Leafs best Defenceman at using his speed to pressure the puck carrier thereby preventing the opposition from properly setting up in the Leafs Dzone, this sadly always goes unnotice by fans but it is a big reason why advance statistics have been very kind to Gardiner this last 3 years or so. Yes, his game 7 performance last year was very abysmal but even so, he is still one of the key players of this team.

 

[Razz]

As Gardiner is solidly our #2 PP point man now, and we have a lot of depth on LD, I think the cap space can be spent elsewhere next season. Gardiner is a solid player even if he has a weird lackadaisacal style.

 

[Tak7]

As Gardiner is solidly our #2 PP point man now, and we have a lot of depth on LD, I think the cap space can be spent elsewhere next season. Gardiner is a solid player even if he has a weird lackadaisacal style.

Yep.

And 50 point Dmen aren't everywhere in the league.

 

[Polaris1010]

Yep.

And 50 point Dmen aren't everywhere in the league.

Gardiner will be very hard to replace if he is leaving.

Both Reilly and Gardiner took a few years to develop to where they are now in their offensive potential. It probably will be the same length of time for the guys in minors. If they can actually make it.

 

[Al14]

Comments like the bolded above are infuriating. Throughout his time with the Leafs, they score more goals with Gardiner on the ice than without (around 51.44%). He's been the best on the team by a WIDE margin. Rielly was at about 45% going into this season.

Jake has his warts, but people who think he costs more goals than he contributes to are so wrong, it's painful.

Yeah, but, he has a -10 +/- cumulative from 2012-13 to 2017-18. He has only had a positive +/- the last 2 seasons, likely thanks to our big 3!

So, yes, I'm likely slightly exaggerating, however, his horrible game 7 last year still infuriates me!

 

[PromisedLand]

used to like him and even defended him; I am done with his "cute" plays and lack of aggression. This guy needs to be traded; he makes boneheaded plays every game. Because of his stupidity pens had a 3 on 1 basically with malkin, kessel and letang; they just didn't cash in and shot it wide.

My pateince with him is done. Guy needs to not be a Leaf anymore

 

[Hunter74]

I know what you’re saying there but think about that for a second

He sure to hell didn't finish strong in game 7 last season!

Like the playoffs last year ?

Humour didnt come through. Though other than last season Jake usually finishes strong.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I don’t get why he couldn’t clean up his mistakes the last 7 years.

He is that thick...

 

[ponder]

Re-signing him would be a mistake given our cap crunch. Rielly is the clear #1, I personally prefer Dermott to Jake, and we’ve got more LHDs coming up like Borgman, Sandin and Rosen. We can use that cap space in a way that benefits our team more.

I’m hoping we can deal him in a hockey trade - a team that needs more offence from the backend, who’s willing to move a defensive RHD. For example:

Gards, Brown and Leivo
for
Tanev and Virtanen

Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Lindholm - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Gauthier - Virtanen

Rielly - Tanev
Dermott - Hainsey
Borgman - Zaitsev

Andersen
Sparks

I’d be all about a team like that.

 

[AllDay28]

this obsession with Tanev who is made of glass is hilarious to me. why dont we just burn the money if were trading someone for a future IR piece

 

[hullsy47]

I think the problem is we'll only have 3 good d-men for a year.

I'd rather have Nutivarra for 4 years than Gards for 1.

if willy isn't getting 6 mill ….gards sure as hell isn't lol .
that game 7 will happen every year ,hes goneeeeee

 

[Trapper]

Would have looked better if they traded him and got a nice return.

Yeah we will see what happens with Gardiner.
I think it’s a bad move to lose valuable assets multiple years in a row.
That being said, the trouble is we have a huge gap between the NHL experience of Rielly/Gardiner and the next wave of inexperience of Oz/Borgman/Rosen/whoever.
While Gardiner has his warts, he is a top 4 NHL D. That’s valuable.

 

[janesy12]

Another brutal game from Gardiner. Even Gardiner fans have to admit he's been terrible.

 

[Al14]

I don’t get why he couldn’t clean up his mistakes the last 7 years.

He is that thick...

He has all the tools, just no brain that effectively communicate with those tools!

 

[Pacholeafs]

you guys are so damn baised.

Rielly's defensive game is way weaker than Gardiner's

but no.. since Rielly gets easy points on the PP means he is waaaaaaaay better than Gardiner right?