Gardiner Thoughts

[JT AM da real deal]

We have not had a solid defense core since 67. We had a very good offense in 76, 92 and 93. and today 2018. We have had a couple super goalies. We even had Salming who was great but 1 man is not a defense core.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

If Zaitsev can't be moved in normal trade, I would seriously consider moving him + an asset/draft-pick to get rid of him. It's not just the 4.5 million that kills so much, it's his bad play too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just watch after it happens. I love Gards skills he does have a whole lot. But he will never understand the game of defense. He is not cut out for it.

When Gardiner gets the puck in his zone and instead of flipping it up the boards, skates with it up the ice, that is good defence and yes, he's really good at it!

 

[Gary Nylund]

We have not had a solid defense core since 67. We had a very good offense in 76, 92 and 93. and today 2018. We have had a couple super goalies. We even had Salming who was great but 1 man is not a defense core.

Our D core in 93 was pretty much the definition of solid.

 

[Mr Hockey]

When Gardiner gets the puck in his zone and instead of flipping it up the boards, skates with it up the ice, that is a good defense and yes, he's really good at it!

I think he tries for the stretch pass more than he skates it out, he is more of an east/west guy when he has the puck. Rielly/Dermott is good at skating the puck out. I believe Zaitsevs game elevates once he partners up with someone else.

 

[Big Cactus]

I believe Zaitsevs game elevates once he partners up with someone else.

I’m not so sure about that. Zaitsevs breakout is to give it to Gardiner. Either that or hard off the glass.

 

[Zybalto]

Just gonna go ahead and put it out there again that the Gards/Zaits pairing has been one of the more effective 2nd pairings in the league over the last 2 months....and they have faced arguably the hardest QoC of any 2nd pairing in the league over that stretch.

Once Jake got his timing and conditioning up to speed, he has been amazingly solid against the hardest comp of his career making really intelligent plays in the defensive zone to transition the puck. His offense is really starting to pick up and I think he will be close to last years numbers when all is said and done.

Zaitsev really had to carry the load early with Gards dragging him down and has settled in nicely as well since mid October ranking in the top 20 in the league for 5v5 goals against/60, top 20 blocked shots/60 and a very impressive 7th in the league for shots allowed/60 Rel on a team that has been bleeding shots.

Both remain very underrated players on an underrated pairing. Zaitsev especially gets a lot of flak but his 5v5 defensive numbers are borderline elite.....even if he is an offensive black hole and has been uneven on the PK.

They both did a great job 5v5 against the Aho line last game and I hope they keep up their solid play together.

 

[Cotton]

Just gonna go ahead and put it out there again that the Gards/Zaits pairing has been one of the more effective 2nd pairings in the league over the last 2 months....and they have faced arguably the hardest QoC of any 2nd pairing in the league over that stretch.

Once Jake got his timing and conditioning up to speed, he has been amazingly solid against the hardest comp of his career making really intelligent plays in the defensive zone to transition the puck. His offense is really starting to pick up and I think he will be close to last years numbers when all is said and done.

Zaitsev really had to carry the load early with Gards dragging him down and has settled in nicely as well since mid October ranking in the top 20 in the league for 5v5 goals against/60, top 20 blocked shots/60 and a very impressive 7th in the league for shots allowed/60 Rel on a team that has been bleeding shots.

Both remain very underrated players on an underrated pairing. Zaitsev especially gets a lot of flak but his 5v5 defensive numbers are borderline elite.....even if he is an offensive black hole and has been uneven on the PK.

They both did a great job 5v5 against the Aho line last game and I hope they keep up their solid play together.

You should make a thread on the main boards and share this with everyone. Most people think they are both overpaid pieces of garbage, you should tell them different.

 

[Intact]

Just gonna go ahead and put it out there again that the Gards/Zaits pairing has been one of the more effective 2nd pairings in the league over the last 2 months....and they have faced arguably the hardest QoC of any 2nd pairing in the league over that stretch.

Once Jake got his timing and conditioning up to speed, he has been amazingly solid against the hardest comp of his career making really intelligent plays in the defensive zone to transition the puck. His offense is really starting to pick up and I think he will be close to last years numbers when all is said and done.

Zaitsev really had to carry the load early with Gards dragging him down and has settled in nicely as well since mid October ranking in the top 20 in the league for 5v5 goals against/60, top 20 blocked shots/60 and a very impressive 7th in the league for shots allowed/60 Rel on a team that has been bleeding shots.

Both remain very underrated players on an underrated pairing. Zaitsev especially gets a lot of flak but his 5v5 defensive numbers are borderline elite.....even if he is an offensive black hole and has been uneven on the PK.

They both did a great job 5v5 against the Aho line last game and I hope they keep up their solid play together.

Can you give insight to save % numbers as well for these stretches, I'm genuinely curious

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

He will get $6M+ as UFA and there's no way he's worth that, especially for this team and their cap struggles. Sorry, he seems like a good guy, I like him, there's just no way to keep him. He's gone no matter what in my opinion so the real question is do you let him walk ala JVR/Bozak or trade him at deadline. I'd trade him, I think Dermott is a better option.

 

[Zybalto]

Can you give insight to save % numbers as well for these stretches, I'm genuinely curious

While both are in the top 10 for save % (and therefore due for some regression there) they are also near the bottom in shooting % while in the ice and due for more than a few points as well.

Zaitsev for example faces the 47 toughest QoC Toi% in the league but has the 44th best HD chances allowed/60 despite being middle of the pack for scoring chances which helps his numbers, especially with Anderson being so solid on everything except HD goals allowed.

Gards gives up a few more chances just because he is paired with Rielly when the team needs a goal which leads to run and gun play much of the time. Hes also around 50ish in the league for comp faced which is the toughest of his career and has really helped shelter the bottom pairing yo some dominant posession.

 

[DarkKnight]

Judging by Dubas and his stammering answer today, Gardiner is gone. Not a surprise, but that awkward response confirms it for me.

 

[lovemyleafs]

Judging by Dubas and his stammering answer today, Gardiner is gone. Not a surprise, but that awkward answer confirms it for me.

Yup. Dubas knows he can't afford Gardiner even if he's a fan of him.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Just move him for any decent dman, don't lose him with no return.

 

[IPS]

Just move him for any decent dman, don't lose him with no return.

You're not worried about disrupting the chemistry of the team for this year's run?? Gardiner is our 2nd best puck-mover on the team dude.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Judging by Dubas and his stammering answer today, Gardiner is gone. Not a surprise, but that awkward response confirms it for me.

You might be right, I'm still holding out hope though. I do not want to contemplate our D with without Gardiner, I really dont.

 

[RLF]

While both are in the top 10 for save % (and therefore due for some regression there) they are also near the bottom in shooting % while in the ice and due for more than a few points as well.

Zaitsev for example faces the 47 toughest QoC Toi% in the league but has the 44th best HD chances allowed/60 despite being middle of the pack for scoring chances which helps his numbers, especially with Anderson being so solid on everything except HD goals allowed.

Gards gives up a few more chances just because he is paired with Rielly when the team needs a goal which leads to run and gun play much of the time. Hes also around 50ish in the league for comp faced which is the toughest of his career and has really helped shelter the bottom pairing yo some dominant posession.

He is also playing by a large amount mostly with the Tavares or Kadri line 5v5, No? That will definitely help as well.

 

[Joey Hoser]

We have not had a solid defense core since 67. We had a very good offense in 76, 92 and 93. and today 2018. We have had a couple super goalies. We even had Salming who was great but 1 man is not a defense core.

The Leafs could allow 1 goal for the rest of the season, and people will say we'll never be able to win because of our defense.

It's just the established narrative. 11th in GA last year, better than the Stanley Cup winners. 7th in GA this year. But according to the internet it's the worst defense in the history of the game and we'll never win a playoff series because of it.

 

[thewave]

He will get $6M+ as UFA and there's no way he's worth that, especially for this team and their cap struggles. Sorry, he seems like a good guy, I like him, there's just no way to keep him. He's gone no matter what in my opinion so the real question is do you let him walk ala JVR/Bozak or trade him at deadline. I'd trade him, I think Dermott is a better option.

trade Z give Jake 6m

 

[Mr Hockey]

You're not worried about disrupting the chemistry of the team for this year's run?? Gardiner is our 2nd best puck-mover on the team dude.

I'm not a big Jake fan, makes too many unforced errors, I like his neutral zone game and that's it, I think his overall game can be replaced and we wouldn't lose a step. I also think Zaitsev will be better off with a more stable, not so erratic partner.

 

[diceman934]

I think he tries for the stretch pass more than he skates it out, he is more of an east/west guy when he has the puck. Rielly/Dermott is good at skating the puck out. I believe Zaitsevs game elevates once he partners up with someone else.

Zaitsev looked below average in games recently when Babs was chasing goals and paired Gardiner with Rielly. That should be our top pair but unfortunately we lack capable D man behind them to do so. Rielly is our best Right side D man and plays there a lot now as his partner is getting beat wide far to much turning to his weak side.
Zaitsev is propped up by Gardiner and not being held down by him. If anything Gardiner is being held back playing with a D man who can not pass well enough to exucute a breakout.

Gardiner is seriously underrated by Leaf fans as he is a good D man. He plays a lot of tough minutes and does so effectively and his positive plays far out weights his negative plays. I hope we can find away to keep him.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

It look like the Leafs almost have to keep this group of Dmen together this year. 1. Zaitsev is OK, but he isn't going to be traded for anything better. 2. Leafs would be weaker without Gardiner. So let's stop the talk about trading him "cause you lose him for nothing". Leafs are going for a long Cup run, so it has to include Gardiner this year.
Actually Gardiner has been good this year. There shouldn't be an issue with his play.
It's the problem the Leafs have next year, replacing the 4m Gardiner and the 3m Hainsey. Due to the raises RFAs are getting, the Leafs will either have to keep their forward core and go with a cheap inexperienced defence...such as Rosen and Liljegren. OR, trading a core forward (Nylander?) to get cap for an experienced/good Dman.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Zaitsev looked below average in games recently when Babs was chasing goals and paired Gardiner with Rielly. That should be our top pair but unfortunately we lack capable D man behind them to do so. Rielly is our best Right side D man and plays there a lot now as his partner is getting beat wide far to much turning to his weak side.
Zaitsev is propped up by Gardiner and not being held down by him. If anything Gardiner is being held back playing with a D man who can not pass well enough to exucute a breakout.

Gardiner is seriously underrated by Leaf fans as he is a good D man. He plays a lot of tough minutes and does so effectively and his positive plays far out weight his negative plays. I hope we can find away to keep him.

Jake seems to have no problem passing into high-risk situations, he often attempts passes to players that are covered or in worse positions them himself. He often puts Zaitsev into a hurry-up situation where Zaitsev has no choice but to rifle it up the boards. If you play Jake with Rielly, Jake will become the primary puck possession guy, I prefer Rielly to be that on his own pairing, I don't like those two as a pair...IMO

 

[Joey Hoser]

Gardiner is seriously underrated by Leaf fans as he is a good D man. He plays a lot of tough minutes and does so effectively and his positive plays far out weights his negative plays. I hope we can find away to keep him.

Yeah, I think it clearly shows who just reacts emotionally to what they see, and those who take a more big picture approach.

Gardiner certainly has been guilty of many-a-plays in his tenure here that makes a fan want to throw their beer at their TV, but his ability to reliably retrieve and move the puck the other way VASTLY trumps those occasions, and if you can't see that, it's just a matter of not being able to see the forest through the trees. You're so mad about that one give away that you ignore the fact that he kept the puck in offensive zone most of the rest of the game, and most of this season at least anyway.

 

[Menzinger]

Gardiner is great, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving him 6-7 mil over 5-7 years (his likely UFA ask).