Gardiner Thoughts

[razkaz]

Dermott to replace Gardiner on second pairing. Package Gardiner and Brown/Johnsson for a decent RHD.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He has a nice neutral zone skill set when he has puck possession but his defensive blunders that happen regularly, are a pain. Since Dubas did nothing to improve our D, we have to keep him this season and we are going to lose Gardiner in UFA or we will regrettably resign him.

 

[AuGsY]

Dermott is completely ready to take over Gardiner's position on the 2nd pair. We simply cannot afford to pay Gardiner 6m+ with Marner and Matthews up for contract next year.

 

[Zybalto]

Dermott to replace Gardiner on second pairing. Package Gardiner and Brown/Johnsson for a decent RHD.

Only problem there is we have no clue how Dermott would do with Gards min/QoC/OZF usage. He's never played at that level yet. Plus we do know that the guy coming up to replace Dermott is not going to be nearly as effective. Pretty big gamble to hope that whoever we are getting back is going to be that big a difference maker.

The playoffs still loom large in my mind too. Gards was so much better than Dermott in that series and really didnt get much credit.

 

[AuGsY]

Dermott to replace Gardiner on second pairing. Package Gardiner and Brown/Johnsson for a decent RHD.

Gardiner as a rental plus brown does not get us anywhere close to a decent RHD, at least not one with term left on a decent contract.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Jake haha, thinks everyone gets owned like him on 2-vs-1 lol

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Gardiner and Zaitsev is probably our worst pairing. I don't think it's on Gardiner though

 

[razkaz]

Only problem there is we have no clue how Dermott would do with Gards min/QoC/OZF usage. He's never played at that level yet. Plus we do know that the guy coming up to replace Dermott is not going to be nearly as effective. Pretty big gamble to hope that whoever we are getting back is going to be that big a difference maker.

The playoffs still loom large in my mind too. Gards was so much better than Dermott in that series and really didnt get much credit.

I'm not saying trade him right now, but could see it as a possibility as the season continues we see Dermott move up second pair and see how he fits. I like Gardiner and think he's better than most give him credit for, but we are not going to be able to afford him with all the upcoming contracts.

Gardiner as a rental plus brown does not get us anywhere close to a decent RHD, at least not one with term left on a decent contract.

Not sure what the package would look like but wouldn't want Gardiner to talk for nothing.

 

[IPS]

Gardiner and Zaitsev is probably our worst pairing. I don't think it's on Gardiner though

You think it's on Zaitsev???

They've both had some bad f***-ups this season.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You think it's on Zaitsev???

They've both had some bad ****-ups this season.

it's on both I'd say. they can't play together. we saw that pretty clearly last season, and it's still bad

 

[Mr Hockey]

Gardiner and Zaitsev is probably our worst pairing. I don't think it's on Gardiner though

You think it's on Zaitsev???

They've both had some bad ****-ups this season.

it's on both I'd say. they can't play together. we saw that pretty clearly last season, and it's still bad

classic ...

 

[Morbo]

He's this year's JVR.

with Dermott looking as good as he does, this is an easy decision for Dubas and co.

 

[Joey Hoser]

JVR argument all over again - "a 100pt team doesn't trade at the deadline"- how did that work out for us???
Building a cup winner isn't that black and white and nobody gives a fuzzy duck about the Presidents trophy so when it comes to Gardiner id say the same thing i said about JVR-

We need to make an honest assessment prior to the deadline as to whether;

A) Can we win with the group we have, playing the style we are? Last season the answer was clearly no but i feel Lou ignored this, not the wrong decision but definitely not the right one either. If we can't (which isn't a bad thing), then maybe its chalked up to another development year and we continue to grow for the future.

B) For the right price, Is Gardiner in our long term plans? i expect this will be something that has already been discussed internally and Dubas will already have a rough number from Gardiner's agent, if this number isn't right- then we already know prior to the DL whether he will be signed in the offseason or not.

C) At this point if the answer is no we don't look ready to win and no Gardiner doesn't fit into our future plans (wants too much money) then you look into what teams will offer at the deadline and if the return is of higher value to our future (short or long term) than a playoff run of Gardiner.

I think it just comes down to patience- personally i lobbied for a JVR trade last deadline (provided it was for a decent return) because i just couldn't see us making a meaningful run and would've rather seen us add assets for what i think will be a loooong run of playoff appearances for this team. I want the prospect pool filled to the brim with guys waiting to fill in around our core

Did you project Washington winning the cup at the deadline last year?

I'm guessing you didn't. Good thing for them that they don't follow your philosophy.

And I don't understand why you say it isn't black and white, because for you it obviously is. You have to be convinced we'll win the cup or we should trade our UFA's. That's pretty black and white.

 

[Nooodles]

Sometimes I seriously question if Gardiner has thoughts.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Utilize him as much as possible for this year. Let him walk if someone offers him $6M+.

We are in win now mode and we need all hands on deck to maximize our cup chances this year. Matthews is currently playing like a 12.5M player for 1M and we need to take full advantage.

 

[Mr Hockey]

You know Jake has a 60% defensive zone starts against #1 and #2 lines and Dermott has a 40% defensive zone starts against #3 and #4 lines this season, right?

this season..

• 58.3 CF% ~ Dermott
• 56.1 CF% ~ Oz
• 52.4 CF% ~ Rielly

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I used to love his stretch passes to the other team the most. Now, my new favourite move by Jake is when he gains the puck after a long series of being hemmed in their own end, only to make a 2 foot pass off the boards back to the opposing team.

Or how about when he sees pressure and tries to skate behind the net to buy himself some time and then seems surprised when they chase him after which he often (usually?) coughs up the puck under the pressure.

 

[Gary Nylund]

JVR argument all over again - "a 100pt team doesn't trade at the deadline"- how did that work out for us???
Building a cup winner isn't that black and white and nobody gives a fuzzy duck about the Presidents trophy so when it comes to Gardiner id say the same thing i said about JVR-

We need to make an honest assessment prior to the deadline as to whether;

A) Can we win with the group we have, playing the style we are? Last season the answer was clearly no but i feel Lou ignored this, not the wrong decision but definitely not the right one either. If we can't (which isn't a bad thing), then maybe its chalked up to another development year and we continue to grow for the future.

B) For the right price, Is Gardiner in our long term plans? i expect this will be something that has already been discussed internally and Dubas will already have a rough number from Gardiner's agent, if this number isn't right- then we already know prior to the DL whether he will be signed in the offseason or not.

C) At this point if the answer is no we don't look ready to win and no Gardiner doesn't fit into our future plans (wants too much money) then you look into what teams will offer at the deadline and if the return is of higher value to our future (short or long term) than a playoff run of Gardiner.

I think it just comes down to patience- personally i lobbied for a JVR trade last deadline (provided it was for a decent return) because i just couldn't see us making a meaningful run and would've rather seen us add assets for what i think will be a loooong run of playoff appearances for this team. I want the prospect pool filled to the brim with guys waiting to fill in around our core

Basically this. I wanted JVR gone last year because our cup chances were so slim. This year though, so far it's looking like a different story which is exactly as I expected and no way are we trading Gardiner if we're looking this good in the spring.

I drove me insane last year when people were telling me things like "you can't trade your UFA's every year, you can't always be building, you have to just go for it at some point blah blah blah".

I was like gimme a break with this "every year" stuff, I'm saying exactly the opposite - we should trade JVR because it's our last chance to cash in as we may be too good to trade UFA's for the next decade.

And here we are.

Off the top of my head, we were maybe 3% to win the cup last season at the TDL whereas now, we're over 10%. How I wish we had another 1st round pick in our prospect pool, would come in handy about 5 years from now when we badly need quality ELC guys to complement our high priced talent. Oh well, if we win a cup in the next 3 years or so, that'll ease the pain. Still, you f..ked up Lou.

 

[ottomaddox]

The title of this thread is pretty funny.

 

[IPS]

You know Jake has a 60% defensive zone starts against #1 and #2 lines and Dermott has a 40% defensive zone starts against #3 and #4 lines this season, right?

Well I'd really hope we're not giving our 2nd-year D-man with 60 games of total experience in the NHL 60% defensive starts.

I was most definitely not on board with the "Trade Gardiner in the offseason and promote Derrmott!" idea.

 

[diceman934]

Gardiner will only be moved if a Marlie shows he can step up and take a 5/6 spot.

Does he walk away for nothing or are we going to move him for picks or a hockey trade. Our biggest issue is the cap. A hockey trade is less likely as it would have to be for a player who is on his last year of his contract.

It is a tough decision.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You know Jake has a 60% defensive zone starts against #1 and #2 lines and Dermott has a 40% defensive zone starts against #3 and #4 lines this season, right?

Bah, you and your "advanced" stats.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You know Jake has a 60% defensive zone starts against #1 and #2 lines and Dermott has a 40% defensive zone starts against #3 and #4 lines this season, right?

this season..

• 58.3 CF% ~ Dermott
• 56.1 CF% ~ Oz
• 52.4 CF% ~ Rielly

yes, and Dermott showed he's ready for tougher assignments and Gardiner/Zaitsev has showed they can't handle theirs

 

[Judas Tavares]

I remember a game against Nashville where he decided to skate backwards into the corner while letting the Preds forward go straight to the net. I had never been so perplexed as to why that moment happened.

 

[Mr Hockey]

yes, and Dermott showed he's ready for tougher assignments and Gardiner/Zaitsev has showed they can't handle theirs

I like Dermott but his time will come next season, Jake and Hainsey should be gone. Keep this a development year for Travis and he should be top 4 next season... just saying