Gardiner Thoughts

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by TML Dynasty, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. TML Dynasty

    TML Dynasty Registered User

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    Ill start this with the disclaimer that Im not a fan of Jake Gardiner! I think he is very skilled but his bonehead plays stress me the f out.

    I am really happy with the emergence of Travis Dermott and think he'll be able to make Jake expendable. But Im wondering if we will still lose Jake for nothing.

    With cap concerns Id like to not have his salary on the books next year especially since he'll get a raise from current. But is it realistic to thing that a playoff bound team will trade Jake prior to the deadline? Does anyone have any decent examples of teams trading such a player in such a position? I guess Im just trying to prepare for losing him for nothing (but cap space) like a few of last years UFAs.....which really pissed me off haha. But I don't see how Dubas could play it differently?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. BillDerlago

    BillDerlago They did it Naylor

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    I was hoping Dubas would be able to move Jake in a real hockey trade at some point this season, adding and getting a RHD of some note.

    That hope is dissolving quickly watching Jake sleepwalk through the first 7 games of the season. Decision making more suspect than usual, uncharacteristically handling the puck like a live grenade. It's been adventure time when Jake is on the ice.
     
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  3. MarnerPeachFuzz

    MarnerPeachFuzz Go Leafs Go

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    Same thoughts every year. He has nothing between his ears. Same clueless/shocked look on his face every time the camera pans on him. Makes boneheaded plays, out of position etc etc. So nothing has changed. I'm sure all of us can see this.
     
  4. bluumax

    bluumax Registered User

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    JVR argument all over again - "a 100pt team doesn't trade at the deadline"- how did that work out for us???
    Building a cup winner isn't that black and white and nobody gives a fuzzy duck about the Presidents trophy so when it comes to Gardiner id say the same thing i said about JVR-

    We need to make an honest assessment prior to the deadline as to whether;

    A) Can we win with the group we have, playing the style we are? Last season the answer was clearly no but i feel Lou ignored this, not the wrong decision but definitely not the right one either. If we can't (which isn't a bad thing), then maybe its chalked up to another development year and we continue to grow for the future.

    B) For the right price, Is Gardiner in our long term plans? i expect this will be something that has already been discussed internally and Dubas will already have a rough number from Gardiner's agent, if this number isn't right- then we already know prior to the DL whether he will be signed in the offseason or not.

    C) At this point if the answer is no we don't look ready to win and no Gardiner doesn't fit into our future plans (wants too much money) then you look into what teams will offer at the deadline and if the return is of higher value to our future (short or long term) than a playoff run of Gardiner.

    I think it just comes down to patience- personally i lobbied for a JVR trade last deadline (provided it was for a decent return) because i just couldn't see us making a meaningful run and would've rather seen us add assets for what i think will be a loooong run of playoff appearances for this team. I want the prospect pool filled to the brim with guys waiting to fill in around our core
     
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  5. Spirit of 67

    Spirit of 67 Registered User

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    A couple things:

    1) The day Mo signed I said Jake was on his last contract as a Leaf. Sadly, he will be a casualty of the cap.

    2) I think he will be allowed to walk at the end of the season. I see 3 outcomes and this is the middle of them. A) we can resign him but it probably means someone else has to go. Like perhaps Naz. B) we can trade him for something we need and hope Dermott is ready to move up and someone else is ready for 3rd pair. (or we get that guy in the trade). C) We use him for the year, keep Dermott on the 3rd pair and whomever below him on the depth chart down in on the farm. It buys us time and then we replace Gards with Derms and Derms with Rosen/Borgman/whomever.
     
  6. Raym11

    Raym11 Phaneuf sucks

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    i like Gardiner but he becomes more expendable every game. He's just in that zone where we'd rather have a better defenceman that is similar if we actually want to improve our D.

    Put it this way, If you give someone like Gardiner 6M, you will never have a good top 6 D. He will probably get that from another team. How do we justify losing him while our D is already average? I'll let Dubas figure that out
     
  7. al secord

    al secord Mustard Tiger

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    I used to love his stretch passes to the other team the most. Now, my new favourite move by Jake is when he gains the puck after a long series of being hemmed in their own end, only to make a 2 foot pass off the boards back to the opposing team.
     
  8. TML Dynasty

    TML Dynasty Registered User

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    Good thoughts. Im worried about the scenario where we agree he isn't in our long term plans but we are in a position to win. Would we try to trade him for a RHD and mess with D pairings right before playoffs? I guess that's pretty subjective (how team is doing, who is available etc)
     
  9. 613Leafer

    613Leafer Registered User

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    Gardiner for Myers I think is good for both sides.

    They're the same age and both pending UFAs, with Gardiner more proven offensively and Myers with the better defensive reputation/size.

    We need a RHD, and they could use a LHD in their top 4 now that Enstrom has left.

    Rielly-Myers
    Dermott-Zaitsev
    Hainsey-Ozhiganov

    Morrissey-Trouba
    Gardiner-Byfgulien
    Kulikov-Chiarot/Morrow
     
  10. WTFMAN99

    WTFMAN99 Registered User

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    I'd do Gardiner+Ennis for Myers+Copp.
     
  11. JustAShadow

    JustAShadow Registered User

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    Like:

    "Why not skate through the neutral zone backwards or laterally at full speed while carrying the puck?"

    "Maybe I'll do this really impressive tight backwards inside out loop as forechecking pressure is coming at me."

    Seriously, he's here until July 1st and unfortunately will leave for nothing. You don't trade away your 2nd best defender off a Stanley Cup contender to manage assets unless there is an equivalent substitution and/or someone willing to send a roughly equal player in return with longer club control.
     
  12. DarkKnight

    DarkKnight Opinions

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    He’s starting to pass to human beings again, sometimes it’s even our team.
     
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  13. rumman

    rumman Registered User

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    pretty much agree with everything here, but I wouldn't wait till the trade deadline, if possible move him earlier.

    Jake's been a good soldier, a good player, and we all know what he brings game in and game out (good and bad), unfortunately there's no cap room for what he'll earn if he goes to free agency.
     
  14. Diamond Joe Quimby

    Diamond Joe Quimby A$AP Joffrey

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    The 16/17 Blues traded Shattenkirk at the deadline, and went to the second round of the playoffs.

    So yes, there is precedence.
     
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  15. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Registered User

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    I would be shocked if the Leafs can re-sign Gardiner. He'll get over 6M on the open market quite easily. The Leafs would probably re-sign him right away if he'd take a 5M ish extension.

    I really hope Dubas can get value out of Gardiner but I recognize that we're trying to find a cup... so it's a tough decision.
     
  16. BillDerlago

    BillDerlago They did it Naylor

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    I saw it a couple times last night, and it was more noticeable as the rest of the D corps were pretty good at getting the puck out.

    Oh Jake.
     
  17. SAMCRO44

    SAMCRO44 Registered User Sponsor

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    He is what he is - never really been a fan.
    If they can re-sign for under 5.5, great. But I'd rather they move on from him and get some value back.
     
  18. Buds17

    Buds17 Registered User

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    If he remains unsigned, a sooner than later return is probably for another pending UFA, unless it's part of a bigger deal. Closer to the trade deadline, it figures to be a late 1st and prospect. The biggest return would come from a team that re-signs him immediately, unlikely as that might be. (ex. Turris signing with Nashville after the trade from Ottawa)

    Retaining him won't be surprising, assuming the team keeps on rolling. It's a tough decision to make - what could be now, with him versus what could be later, with the trade return.
     
  19. Pi

    Pi Registered User

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    I like Gardiner a lot and we should be able to sign him for a fairly simple 5 year extension IMO with a raise. I'd keep him but I don't know if he's going to stick around much longer because Dermott is making him look expendable.

    I would not trade him though at any costs. Whoever we replace him with this season likely won't be as good as him and we're subtracting from a D that is already thin.
     
  20. tom leafers

    tom leafers Registered User

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    Just like Bozak, JVR and Leo, hes sticking around until July 1st and then my guess he goes to Philly or Tampa or something.

    we cant afford him anyways
     
  21. Ovate

    Ovate Registered User

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    They weren't in a playoff spot at the deadline. They drastically exceeded their own expectations, and when they were in the 2nd round of playoffs, they were wishing they had held on to Shatty.
     
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  22. Joufreau

    Joufreau Registered User

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    He's going to stick around this year, we likely will lose him for nothing. We absolutely can not resign this guy. I've said it many times, while he does have a lot of skill and talent, he just doesn't have it between the ears. Not to mention we are quickly running out of cap room.

    Gardiner will walk at the end of the year, sign a big ticket on the open market and that team will regret it two years down the road. Thank you for your service Jake
     
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  23. ironrhcp

    ironrhcp Registered User

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    I don’t see it... he’s got 5 points in 7 games as a D. He’s +1, runs one of our power plays that has been good the last few games. Had 52 points last year with the most average ice time on the team. A team that had 106 points and finished 6th in the league. I think everyone see him mess up a pass the odd time and just completely ****s on the guy. Yea he ****s up, but so does every ****ibg D man in the league. Rielly passed it to the other team at least 4-5 times last night but no one would ever call him out on that. Obviously he’s doing something right, babs and Dubas love him and he’s barely missed a game since he started in the league. Guys about to get a big pay day and I’m happy for him. Hope he goes to a team where the fans don’t **** on him and actually appreciate that he tries to make some slick passes and plays. Hockey is just entertainment at the end of the day, if you guys want 6 D men that go off the glass everytime...well **** that’s some boring ****ing hockey. I’ll take the play maker. The way you guys talk about him makes you all seem misguided because if he’s so trash and braindead why will he be making 6mill next year. I bet he’s one of the hottest FA in July. Real teams know how valuable he is. Go Jake Go!
     
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  24. Ratboy

    Ratboy Expirt anelasys

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    He's fast, talented, and completely unreliable. I don't trust him to keep it together when it really matters.

    I doubt we trade him and I hope we don't re-sign him.
     
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  25. MR4

    MR4 Registered User

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    Only reason I'd consider trading him is because we didn't trade JVR last year. The correct 2 year plan would've been keeping Jake and trading reemer. But seriously doubt Jake would be traded, he'll just walk to Minny most likely (maybe we could pull a MIN dman for him?)
     

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