Gardiner Thoughts

[81Leafs50]

Leafs cannot keep Jake long term regardless of what happens with Nylander. So all you Jake haters will miss him BIG time when he is gone.

 

[thewave]

Good player, should keep and try to get a deal.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

JVR argument all over again - "a 100pt team doesn't trade at the deadline"- how did that work out for us???
Building a cup winner isn't that black and white and nobody gives a fuzzy duck about the Presidents trophy so when it comes to Gardiner id say the same thing i said about JVR-

We need to make an honest assessment prior to the deadline as to whether;

A) Can we win with the group we have, playing the style we are? Last season the answer was clearly no but i feel Lou ignored this, not the wrong decision but definitely not the right one either. If we can't (which isn't a bad thing), then maybe its chalked up to another development year and we continue to grow for the future.

B) For the right price, Is Gardiner in our long term plans? i expect this will be something that has already been discussed internally and Dubas will already have a rough number from Gardiner's agent, if this number isn't right- then we already know prior to the DL whether he will be signed in the offseason or not.

C) At this point if the answer is no we don't look ready to win and no Gardiner doesn't fit into our future plans (wants too much money) then you look into what teams will offer at the deadline and if the return is of higher value to our future (short or long term) than a playoff run of Gardiner.

I think it just comes down to patience- personally i lobbied for a JVR trade last deadline (provided it was for a decent return) because i just couldn't see us making a meaningful run and would've rather seen us add assets for what i think will be a loooong run of playoff appearances for this team. I want the prospect pool filled to the brim with guys waiting to fill in around our core

How did it work out? It lured a top five center in the nhl to sign with us. The nhl is not nhl 19. Teams simply dont trade ufas for first round picks and blue chip prospects at the deadline when they are on pace for 100 points. Just because that what you want doesent mean it makes sense or is realistic. Other gms are not giving us anything more valuable at the deadline for gardnier than what he provides us. I mean wake up

 

[hockeywiz542]

LeBrun: Outside of Erik Karlsson, the UFA defencemen class...

No question Gardiner wants to stay put with the Leafs and last week his agent, Pat Brisson, met with Leafs GM Kyle Dubas in Toronto. Gardiner’s situation has to take a back seat to the salary-cap cracking triumvirate of William Nylander, Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews. And it’s obvious if Gardiner wants to stay, he’s taking less than what he’s worth on the free market. The question is how much less. Schmidt is of similar skill and talent and signed for $5.95-million a year over six years on Wednesday night. Now again, Nevada’s enticing income tax situation makes players there take a bit less than elsewhere, so keep that in mind. Schmidt isn’t signing for $5.95 million in California, New York or anywhere in Canada.

To me, Gardiner probably can’t get north of $6 million if he stays in Toronto. His value on the open market is probably between $6.5 million and $7 million. Again, supply and demand. Top-four blueliners are rarely on the market. Look at what Kevin Shattenkirk got two years ago.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I dont see how we can let him go. we have Rielly, Zaitsev and Dermott locked up for next season and thats it.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I dont see how we can let him go. we have Rielly, Zaitsev and Dermott locked up for next season and thats it.

Gardiner should have been turned into a forward a long time ago
I would rather trade him than sign him big

 

[deletethis]

I think Gardiner is worth the risk of handing out term to keep down the AAV. Gardiner in the low 5's for max term could make some sense. In one scenario he's a 34/35 year old fading mobile defenseman who due to cap/salary elevation is making low 2nd pairing money and isn't a great burden. In another scenario he's loses his legs and unable to survive on guile, he is simply Robidas'd. In a 3rd scenario, he can no longer play due to injury.

 

[ironrhcp]

Gardiner should have been turned into a forward a long time ago
I would rather trade him than sign him big

That’s why you’re an armchair gm.

 

[qqaz]

I think Gardiner is worth the risk of handing out term to keep down the AAV. Gardiner in the low 5's for max term could make some sense. In one scenario he's a 34/35 year old fading mobile defenseman who due to cap/salary elevation is making low 2nd pairing money and isn't a great burden. In another scenario he's loses his legs and unable to survive on guile, he is simply Robidas'd. In a 3rd scenario, he can no longer play due to injury.

Couldn't agree more. And I think an 8 year contract would be very tempting for him, too. He knows the team is pushing for a Cup right now, and you'd think he wants to be along for the ride.

There's a chance he would rather have a bit less money here for 8 years than have to pick up and go to Jersey or Edmonton to get the higher dollars.

 

[hockeywiz542]

17. Toronto is going to take a shot at keeping Jake Gardiner. The odds are long, but he likes it there and they like him. He leads the Maple Leafs with 19:46 at even strength per night. They will offer him term and be generous with bonus and structure. It comes down to how much he’s willing to leave on the table.

 

[Big Cactus]

8pts in his last 5 games. Despite what a lot of people believe we’re really going to miss Gards if he leaves. He’s currently carrying the corpse of Zaitsev and is on pace for just under 50 points. Probably our best transition and breakout defenceman. For a team that sucks at controlled zone exits/entries he’s a guy I really think we need to keep.

 

[ShaneFalco]

8pts in his last 5 games. Despite what a lot of people believe we’re really going to miss Gards if he leaves. He’s currently carrying the corpse of Zaitsev and is on pace for just under 50 points. Probably our best transition and breakout defenceman. For a team that sucks at controlled zone exits/entries he’s a guy I really think we need to keep.

I agree. I wa son the fence before but it's so hard to find d-men.
It would mean Zaitsev has to go I would think, and perhaps Brown

 

[cannucky]

I've said it before frame the conversation right and he will sign for a discount , front end it like Nylanders deal to keep the aav down , 8 years is too far out for a 29 year old { he'll be 29 on thw 4th of July } think 6 years with an aav in the 5.5 range heavily loaded for the first 3 say like 9+7+6+4.5+3.5+3 =33 =aav 5.5 which is 10% more than Reilly makes for the next couple of years , sell it to him as that and he'll take it to stay .

 

[therealkoho]

I still love the no pressure 30 foot cross ice pass right into the skates of team-mates, talk about yer warm and fuzzies

 

[Duckrider]

Hope he stays, seems to be playing great.

 

[mulefarm]

A core piece and should be able to play well into his late 30’s.

 

[Slyfox]

Gardiner has been great this year. His defensive game has improved this year.

 

[Judas Tavares]

For me, its such a mixed bag with him.

If he goes, we lose the minutes (not easy to replace at all), skating ability and offensive presence. And yes, all this will be missed and hard to replace.

But depending on the price, I'm not a fan of being locked in long-term. If its a Nylander situation (solid value or a couple hundo thousand overpaid), that would be way too much for me. I need to see not even a slight discount, but a legit proper steal-type discount.

Our cap is too tight to pay him fairly or even slightly overpay.

While he provides a lot of what I described above, there are also many shortcomings in his game. Not only that, but what will come out in big situations, his solid traits or the shortcomings?

The memory of game 7 does stand out and one thing that also comes to mind for me is, if you watch the OT of Game 7 in 2013, there he is on the ice for the Bruins' winning goal. I know you can't judge him solely on that, and many players have bad big games. But then again, after all these years, will he elevate his game, or is he what he is?

If he can calm down a rush, zone entry or dump in by the opposing team early, things are fine. But I do find once the stress-level/panic-level slightly elevates, he's in over his head. He ends up out of position and not covering the guy he should be.

Another thing that worris me is he is a holdover from the Burke/Nonis/Wilson/Randy regime. I felt this regime made things toxic, comfortable and satisfied with the crappy status quo. Starting with Phil and Dion and then eventually Bozak and JVR, I was happy to see these guys go.

Now I realize this also includes Kadri and Rielly. Rielly gets a pass for me for several reasons. What he brings, his discount contract and also while he is part of the old regime, he got here (to the big team) once Wilson and Burke were gone and didn't spend too much time under Nonis and Randy until Shanahan came and cleaned things up.

Kadri on the other hand was an old regime staple. But again, what he brings and his contract really help. Plus that wake up call Shanny gave him turned things around. There was never really an equivalent for guys like Bozak and JVR, they were always set in their ways.

Back to Gardiner, it is less about the previous regime stink he may carry and more about his overall play, but I just feel it is time to move on unless he really takes a massive discount.

3 assists in a random 6-1 game in December vs. a meh team inspires less confidence in me than when its time for a big situation. He is no longer a kid and can't get those kinds of passes at his age.

 

[topched]

Would rather have Jake at 5.5-6 than Zaitsev at 4.5 over the same term. Would even move an asset to get someone to take the Z contract.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Like Leo, JVR, Bozak, he has to go, he is nice to watch when he has the puck in the neutral zone, but meh to the rest of his game.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Gardiner should have been turned into a forward a long time ago
I would rather trade him than sign him big

Gards was a star recruit centre in Minnesota. He was converted into a defenseman. The story I heard was because he was not going to be the #1 centre at Wisconsin but coach thought he could be converted to #1 d.
In the ideal world we get back a tough dman back plus a pick/more help. Maybe Gudas and Simmons. Both could help us this post season if we face Boston. Not much good against Tampa.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't even want to think about what our D would look like without Gardiner. Losing JVR for nothing was one thing, losing Jake is another thing entirely.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't even want to think about what our D would look like without Gardiner. Losing JVR for nothing was one thing, losing Jake is another thing entirely.

It will get better with respect to defense. We lose a little offense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It will get better with respect to defense. We lose a little offense.

I wish I could believe that but I'm nowhere even close to doing so.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Just watch after it happens. I love Gards skills he does have a whole lot. But he will never understand the game of defense. He is not cut out for it.