OT: Game of Thrones SPOILER Discussion - Here be tales of SPOILERS and drinking giant’s milk!!!

[No More Subban]

Drogon was obviously pissed. So no clue what you're talking about.
The Dothraki, they just lost their Queen. The Unsullied, fine, I could see your point....except Grey worm went ape **** when Missandei died so we know he does have feelings. You want to argue he doesn't give a crap about Dany? Fine, but I have a hard time believing this. She just made a speech where she declared him her army's commander. His first act as Commander is to...hmm..not kill the assassin of his Queen..loll
In any event, we needed to see this development. If the Unsullied are as you say, why the hell do they care about getting land for themselves then?
Again...just full of holes to a point where it doesn't make sense and you need to develop things on your own thinking.

It's obviously not perfect.
As for Dothraki, Dany also killed their khals, by the way. They didn't do anything about it either.

Huh?
Dany just won the Throne. What is there to talk about? I mean...everything? Meet with all the Lords and Ladies, set strategies and plans of how she envisions the future, find a new Hand, repair KL and Winterfell after two devastating battles, etc...

We're talking about the Tyrion-Jon scene here. Are you suggesting that Tyrion should talk to Jon about Dany's future plans? That doesn't make sense. Dude is on death row and he has time to talk about anything else? His goal is to survive another day.

I know you like to point to her speech saying she wants to keep going but...the war IS over. There were two wars going on, one with the Night King/White Walkers and the other for the Throne vs Cersei. That's it. So...there's nothing else man. Her saying she's gonna go to Winterfell and Dorne and wherever else...I mean...okay? Why? What for? She's going to just burn every city down? Lol..Why would she do that? Those are her cities. She is the Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms (the North,home to Winterfell, the Vale, home to The Eyrie, the Stormlands, the Reach, the Westerlands, the Iron Islands, and Dorne). She sits on the Throne. She's gonna go burn her own Kingdoms now?

The war is over?
How do you know Sansa will just bend the knee?
You said below, we know absolutely nothing. But how could you make these assumptions?

We know absolutely NOTHING of her future plans as none of that was ever discussed. You just go into a bunch of assumption that she would keep doing evil things, but you don't actually know what Dany wants to do. It was never discussed outside her telling her troops she'll go to a bunch of places that are now under her control....Great.

But we do know. She wants to rule the world. She wants to get rid of all the tyrants. Funny thing is, she's one of them. Why do you think Jon had to end her reign?

Hmm..well...the United States of America for one...they did it on two cities, you forgot about that?
In case you missed it, the Northmen were fighting in King's Landing too, so it wasn't just about the Night King. That soldier who goes to rape a woman but Jon comes in to save her and kill him, he was a Northmen.

You lost me here.

You mean...mercy? So I guess there is possibility of negotiating..

Did Dany think of negotiating before burning KL? She could've just gone straight to Cersei after taking out all the scorpions.
Jon did his part as well. He didn't just go and kill her. He tried to negotiate and make her see that she can't just snap and burn a city.
"They don't get to choose." Sounds like someone who doesn't want to negotiate.

Why wait? She's an evil murder-hungry Mad Queen no? Why not kill Tyrion right away as he completely disrespected her in front of all her army throwing down the Hand symbol in front of everyone. Why wait? Isn't that what you said about Jon killing her?

Maybe the same way as GW not killing Jon and Tyrion right away. You hate the fact that he didn't kill them asap

Her death was definitely not necessary. You don't know what would have happened. What if Jon accepts to rule by her side? You don't know anything, as I said, you need to make a bunch of assumptions in order to argue this was necessary. I can tell you the opposite and it holds as much weight as your prediction.
Furthermore, you have absolutely no idea if the world is actually in better hands with Bran leading.
The bathroom stall at the starbucks in front of my gym has more lines than Bran had over the past seasons. The guy speaks in code, he doesn't feel pain or any emotion, but somehow he wanted to be King...so the character of Bran is completely under develop here. We have no idea what he actually thinks, we barely know who he is. So I have no idea how you can claim the world is now better and will be free of tyranny and more deaths.

But Jon doesn't want to rule by her side. Hence stabbing her.
It wasn't also necessary for Dany to kill innocent people. To prove what? Like you said, she already won the throne.

 

[Kriss E]

It's obviously not perfect.
As for Dothraki, Dany also killed their khals, by the way. They didn't do anything about it either.

I mean...come on. She was married to Drogo, who was abandoned when injured. It's part of their tradition remember, the widow of a Khal can't leave. She stayed, took on the abuse, then when they're deciding what to do with her..rape her or sell her for 10 000 horses, she tells them to hear her side where she proceeds to insultingly tell them they aren't fit to lead the Dothraki and that she will.
At that point, they laugh saying they'll take turn raping her and after that, they'll let their horses do it too. Then she kills them. She comes out of that flamming barn showing she's immune to fire and takes over as their Khaleesi.
So ya...you left out quite a fair bit of information there, and it took time to create this storyline.

We're talking about the Tyrion-Jon scene here. Are you suggesting that Tyrion should talk to Jon about Dany's future plans? That doesn't make sense. Dude is on death row and he has time to talk about anything else? His goal is to survive another day.

They can talk about anything they want, it's up to them. Jon could have told Tyrion he's going to rule with Dany if he wanted. Could have explored multiple different angles.

The war is over?
How do you know Sansa will just bend the knee?
You said below, we know absolutely nothing. But how could you make these assumptions?

Yes the war is over. Dany wanted the Throne as it belongs to a Tar. She killed Cersei who was holding it.
I don't know Sansa will just bend the knee..that's the point, we don't know, hence killing Dany was rushed. Maybe Sansa would have refused as you claim....or....maybe not...We don't know as this wasn't developed. They killed Dany before we could even know.

But we do know. She wants to rule the world. She wants to get rid of all the tyrants. Funny thing is, she's one of them. Why do you think Jon had to end her reign?

Jon ended her reign because that's what the writers wanted. That's all.
She has the Throne. She is now the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. Now, she can rule as a Tyrant but that means not talking about a world of Mercy and Good, as she told Jon.
Or she can rule with Mercy and Kindness...as she's demonstrated since moving towards the Throne except for that one evil act she just committed.
All in all. We don't know what type of leader she'd be. She was very loved by her followers up to that point. Outside of a few who found what she did apparently terrible, the rest (unsullied, Dothraki, Northmen) didn't seem to mind at all.

You lost me here.

USA dropped two Atomic Bombs on Japan in WWII, killing hundreds of thousands innocent people.
It was done to show the force of the US and put an end to the war. Less than a week after those bombings, Japan surrendered. Couple weeks later, Germany did too.

A necessary evil act. Now you can say Hitler was committing even bigger atrocities himself, which is true, but we also know Cersei was an evil herself but GOT never went into the general feels of the populations so it's not as intense.

Did Dany think of negotiating before burning KL? She could've just gone straight to Cersei after taking out all the scorpions.
Jon did his part as well. He didn't just go and kill her. He tried to negotiate and make her see that she can't just snap and burn a city.
"They don't get to choose." Sounds like someone who doesn't want to negotiate.

Actually yes. She did. Even after them ambushing her killing one of her Dragons, she still showed up to negotiate a surrender. Cersei had none of it and decided to chop off Missandei's head in the process.
Yes, they don't get to choose...That's what happens when there is a King or Queen. They rule their Kingdoms. She also said it would be a world of Mercy and Good. It's not any different now. Bran is the King, he's going to choose how things go. He just let his sister get a small piece of the pie because she's a spoiled brat.

Maybe the same way as GW not killing Jon and Tyrion right away. You hate the fact that he didn't kill them asap

I don't hate it, I think it just makes no sense.
They were all there in front of Dany cheering, celebrating joyfully over their conquest of the Throne. 5 minutes later, she dies...*whomp whomp*....damn...Alright then, guess we'll go back home. Ciao ciao!

But Jon doesn't want to rule by her side. Hence stabbing her.
It wasn't also necessary for Dany to kill innocent people. To prove what? Like you said, she already won the throne.

If she didn't do it, what would prevent another Lord that disagreed with her to just do the same thing?
Jon wanted that Wildling sex...he happy now.

 

[Lshap]

Which people? Sansa and Tyrion? The Northmen seemed to have a lot of fun participating in the massacre. So not them. Definitely not the Unsullied or freed slaves. Not the Dothrakis either....
So who exactly hates her leadership outside of a few people?

There is no war without an enemy, and as it stands, Dany had none left.

Dany clearly felt the world was still full of enemies. When you announce you're still at war and plan to liberate a bunch of kingdoms, they obviously represent the enemy to her.

The show took great pains to show how she's decided to approach these kingdoms. Not with love. With fear. She's a woman who became accustomed to being loved; now the people don't love her. Neither does Jon. Okay then... fear it is. Oh - and fire too.

So..she's just going around burning cities down now? Why?

You can make a case that the character arc was rushed (it was), but the writers made it clear her next moves were to be more conquering & killing. She announced it in direct words and actions. Crib notes version: She feels unloved / She feels entitled to rule everyone / She has a dragon / liberate Winterfell. Except Sansa doesn't need Winterfell 'liberated', thank you very much. So yeah, Winterfell is on her list for a BBQ party.

Again, most of us agree the arc was rushed, but it made sense within that context.

I'm not giving her a pass, I'm saying killing her so quickly after it was just bad writing. It didn't make sense. There wasn't enough development in the stories.
Oh..she mentioned Winterfell in her speech! I guess she's gotta die then now...Come on man.
You can't say she would have committed anything like this again because this was a complete 180 shift from her 8 seasons + 4 episodes attitude. So you don't actually know.
Even when she met with Jon before he killed her, I expected her to be cold, I thought she would mention how Sansa will have to bend the knee, basically, establish a hardline conflict that really pushes Jon to kill her. But no. The opposite happens. She's warm, loving, cuddly, explains why she felt she had to burn the city, but how she still wants a world of good and mercy.
Also, she could have executed Tyrion right there and then in front of her people. I mean, she's the Mad Queen now right? Is that....mercy?
So she showed Jon there is still kindness and compassion in her. Killing her at that point did not make any sense. We don't know if she really went nuts. We don't know if she'd do this again. She's just demonstrated mercy towards Tyrion by not killing him. She obviously still loves Jon and wants to rule with him, in a world of Mercy and Good.
Sorry man...there just wasn't enough of her evil character developed.



They were in love. It wasn't a little summer fling man.

I remember the debate you and I had about Walter White. That was cool, because the elements of good and evil were so richly interwoven that he was almost fully human, like an android who evolves beyond his programming. There was no simple yes/no answer to his nature because his character was so well-developed that he defied a single description. Like a real person, Walter White was both good and evil; different people saw different sides and each perception was correct.

Danaerys is obviously a much less layered character. Very well written for TV, sure, but too many external factors -- like a dragon -- to ground her in reality. Plus, she had to share the field with dozens of equally important characters. So not enough time or attention to psychological details as we saw in Breaking Bad. We can hold out for a character we believe she should be, however it was made clear by the writers what her character was intended to be. It's clear that she was written as becoming dangerous/evil/mad-queen. Everything from her actions to her dialogue screamed that she was now a ruler by fear and force. Unlike Walter White, there was no regret or conflict in Dany after torching innocent people in KL. She had the same absolute certainty of her position as tyrants through history.

You can disagree with the speed/method at which the writers transformed her into a tyrant, but there's no debate that she was written as a tyrant. And tyrants are fair-game to be taken out.

As for Jon & Dany sitting in a tree, he wasn't interested in sleeping with her anymore. His love was mostly loyalty at that point.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

But I still have no issue with Jon killing Dany. Jon has done and will always protect the realms/people before anything, even his love for Dany. No matter the cost. And he's always been true to his words. He stuck with them.

They already had set him up for that as he had already betrayed a previous love, with Ygritte, he chose the realm over her.

It's actually funny some pretend Jon was manipulated by Tyrion, when all the Imp did was to tell him the truth, that he always knew the right answer, contrarily to what he has been told by the women in his life, you-know-nothing-jon-snow, whether it was the northener redhead first saying that line, Melisandre repeating the line, Sansa doubting him every step of the way and Dany stubbornly believing to be right.

All Tyrion did was accelerate a thought process that would've inevitably led to the same outcome, with the risk of more dying before love blinds him no more.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Sure, some evil and manipulation is key. Letting people kill an entire city just so you can claim throne isn't a little evil.

The point isn't whether they had zero kills or not. It's more about whether they've broken the wheel or if its more of the same.



Dany, doesn't make Bran a happy ending.

I think Bran simply went "order out of chaos". Out of all the outcomes he saw, he knew this was the one where the wheel would be broken. Now some might say he's evil for letting Dany go postal, but we don't know the other outcomes. Maybe they all lead to worst outcomes.

But that still doesn't excuse what she did. Bran seeing this outcome has the same logic follow for Jon needing to end her. If Bran let it happen, it doesnt excuse her, she still needs to be put down for the outcome to be reached, but for Bran, we can't really say, we just don't know the other outcomes.

 

[Sorinth]

But Ned was in the North when all this happened! When he was Hand of the King, he refused to do it!


I watched those episodes a hundred million times, yes Tywin was declared enemy of the realm.

You said Ned would kill Robert if he tried to have innocent children killed. He didn't.

When? All Rob's battles happened on battlefields. The only way they could have encountered civilians would have been if they had reached Lannisport but they didn't.



What?

So you don't think there are villages/towns throughout the land, only big cities?

The brotherhood without banners were the group formed by Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr, when trying to convince Gendry to join them they talked about how both sides were harming innocent civilians, and so they fought for the common folk.

AND JON TRIED TO STOP IT!!! He killed his own man for it. Did you watch the show?

And you think that was the only case? That's what happens when soldiers attack cities, if they win then they loot, rape, and kill innocent civilians.

 

[Kriss E]

I think Bran simply went "order out of chaos". Out of all the outcomes he saw, he knew this was the one where the wheel would be broken. Now some might say he's evil for letting Dany go postal, but we don't know the other outcomes. Maybe they all lead to worst outcomes.

But that still doesn't excuse what she did. Bran seeing this outcome has the same logic follow for Jon needing to end her. If Bran let it happen, it doesnt excuse her, she still needs to be put down for the outcome to be reached, but for Bran, we can't really say, we just don't know the other outcomes.

That's the problem here..its not just choosing between option A or B. It's not like inception where they leave the ending open leaving you to think if hes just dreaming or it being reality.
Here they left you with so many openings, you could easily see a multitude of different scenarios, one of which is yours, another one is well Bran just let it happen because he wanted the Throne all this time and just manipulated everyone to make it happen as he could see what needed to be done to become King..or he placed a few things and let the rest unfold. But we dont know anything about Bran in the end..we have no idea who he really is deep down or what he truly thinks, I mean clearly he wanted to be king so already that is different from what we were lead to believe.

 

[Sorinth]

I think Bran simply went "order out of chaos". Out of all the outcomes he saw, he knew this was the one where the wheel would be broken. Now some might say he's evil for letting Dany go postal, but we don't know the other outcomes. Maybe they all lead to worst outcomes.

But that still doesn't excuse what she did. Bran seeing this outcome has the same logic follow for Jon needing to end her. If Bran let it happen, it doesnt excuse her, she still needs to be put down for the outcome to be reached, but for Bran, we can't really say, we just don't know the other outcomes.

Did Bran ever mention breaking the wheel as a goal?

 

[Paddyjack]

I

USA dropped two Atomic Bombs on Japan in WWII, killing hundreds of thousands innocent people.
It was done to show the force of the US and put an end to the war. Less than a week after those bombings, Japan surrendered. Couple weeks later, Germany did too.

A necessary evil act. Now you can say Hitler was committing even bigger atrocities himself, which is true, but we also know Cersei was an evil **** herself but GOT never went into the general feels of the populations so it's not as intense.

Just making some facts straight here, Germany was already out of the picture since 3 months before (May 1945). These bombs dropped in August 1945, and only Japan remained.

But I agree with your opinion on the season

 

[Kriss E]

They already had set him up for that as he had already betrayed a previous love, with Ygritte, he chose the realm over her.

It's actually funny some pretend Jon was manipulated by Tyrion, when all the Imp did was to tell him the truth, that he always knew the right answer, contrarily to what he has been told by the women in his life, you-know-nothing-jon-snow, whether it was the northener redhead first saying that line, Melisandre repeating the line, Sansa doubting him every step of the way and Dany stubbornly believing to be right.

All Tyrion did was accelerate a thought process that would've inevitably led to the same outcome, with the risk of more dying before love blinds him no more.

Sure, that's a possibility, but what's that you said about me? I twist things to fit my narrative? Well, you're doing the same here. That is the problem. The show is too ambiguous. We can turn it into whatever we want, it's all plausible.
Maybe it's as you say...or..maybe Jon did get manipulated. Again, that's the problem with how they wrote it.
Maybe Dany crossed to a point of no return and needed to be offed. Or..maybe it actually is as she said, a necessary act (of evil) to show her opponents she wont be merciful when you challenge her to that extent. It doesnt mean people will suffer under her ruling, maybe they will thrive...we actually dont know this and that's a pretty important part as it determines if shes a good Queen to have lead.
The question never was whether or not what she did was terrible and evil, it was, but does that mean the world is worst off because of it? Well we dont actually know that.
Yes..she threatens Winterfell..Dorne and the likes with more war...but...she just won the Throne, those are her Kingdoms...She wants to burn down her own cities now that sits on the Iron Throne? Why?

As I said, it's all too ambiguous and the show could go in so many different directions that this specific ending doesnt really add up.

 

[Kriss E]

Just making some facts straight here, Germany was already out of the picture since 3 months before (May 1945). These bombs dropped in August 1945, and only Japan remained.

But I agree with your opinion on the season

Fair enough..just meant the war ended officially couple weeks after..in September..unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Did Bran ever mention breaking the wheel as a goal?

Did Bran ever mention being king as a goal?

 

[Sorinth]

Dany, doesn't make Bran a happy ending.

We have to idea how Bran would act as king, so it's impossible to say who would be more of a tyrant.

That said, Bran's powers make it so he has the potential to be a much worse tyrant. Anybody he doesn't like or will stand up against him, he can just accuse of a committing a horrible act in the future, or accuse them of an unsolved crime. Also seeing the future makes him much harder to stop. For example you have a reasonable chance of success trying to poison Dany. Poisoning the guy who sees the future would be much tougher.

 

[Lshap]

I never got the impression Bran controlled events. He mostly observed them. Yeah, I know, Hodor. But those were exceptions. Almost all of his powers involved seeing, not doing. Did he foresee himself being crowned King? Yes. Did he influence the circumstances surrounding it? I didn't get that impression. His comment, "Why do you think I came all this way?", certainly proves he knew his fate, but not necessarily that he had any control over it. Same with Danaerys destroying Kings Landing. He may have watched/foreseen/predicted it, but there was no sign he could have prevented it or approved of it in any way.

Bran seemed like the ultimate Buddha. All-knowing and all-accepting, without a personal agenda. There was no sign he wanted power, but he accepted it as his fate.

In the end, his true motives were left unanswered and up to us to interpret.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That's the problem here..its not just choosing between option A or B. It's not like inception where they leave the ending open leaving you to think if hes just dreaming or it being reality.
Here they left you with so many openings, you could easily see a multitude of different scenarios, one of which is yours, another one is well Bran just let it happen because he wanted the Throne all this time and just manipulated everyone to make it happen as he could see what needed to be done to become King..or he placed a few things and let the rest unfold. But we dont know anything about Bran in the end..we have no idea who he really is deep down or what he truly thinks, I mean clearly he wanted to be king so already that is different from what we were lead to believe.

It doesn't fit if we look at character development and motivations. Bran is detached from his former self. He doesn't have any wants and many instances show that. He's simply following his path.

Same for Jon. His motivations and thought process follow an established pattern. Not something that simply came out of the blue. It fits him to a T.

Same for Dany.

In most instances, the writers simply executed (poorly) the major threads that were well established, whether it was Arya wanting to become a (white) knight (left KL ground zero on white horse). Or Dany's possible fall to madness, kept creeping up on multiple occasions. Jon choosing to protect the realm which was his initial path and which he repeatedly acted upon. Bran making due with the unintended and unwanted responsabilities that repeatedly fell into his lap like being lord of Winterfell as a pre-teen and the three eyed raven invading his thoughts; nothing he ever wanted. Same with Tyrion always between a rock and a hard place having to deal with a mad ruler and his own loyalties (realm, family and just rule). Or Sansa and her entitlement and desires for rule.

If you look at their motivations and developmemt, there isnt that much room to extrapolate. They all pretty much followed the mold they were given in the first few seasons.

 

[Kriss E]

I never got the impression Bran controlled events. He mostly observed them. Yeah, I know, Hodor. But those were exceptions. Almost all of his powers involved seeing, not doing. Did he foresee himself being crowned King? Yes. Did he influence the circumstances surrounding it? I didn't get that impression. His comment, "Why do you think I came all this way?", certainly proves he knew his fate, but not necessarily that he had any control over it. Same with Danaerys destroying Kings Landing. He may have watched/foreseen/predicted it, but there was no sign he could have prevented it or approved of it in any way.

Bran seemed like the ultimate Buddha. All-knowing and all-accepting, without a personal agenda. There was no sign he wanted power, but he accepted it as his fate.

In the end, his true motives were left unanswered and up to us to interpret.

Or he didn't act because he saw where it would lead...him on the Throne.
Or..everything he said, where he went, what he decided not to do...all of it he did because he knew, again, what would come of it.

That's why it made no sense to even nominate him. He is completely unpredictable. The strength of Tyrion is his intelligence, he can influence and manipulate outcomes he wants using his smarts. How will he possibly do that now with someone who can see right through him? And to top it off, this is someone who apparently has no moral compass either. He does not feel any emotions, Bran just..is. That's exactly who they did not want.

 

[Paddyjack]

Fair enough..just meant the war ended officially couple weeks after..in September..unless I'm mistaken.

Even before, like 1 week after Nagasaki. But I have to say, using this example to illustrate the necessity of Dany's action is spot on, and the contrast is that the USA had no desire to own the rest of the world afterward (at least military ;p). But as you said, would she really have gone that far? We don't know, because.... writers.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I never got the impression Bran controlled events. He mostly observed them. Yeah, I know, Hodor. But those were exceptions. Almost all of his powers involved seeing, not doing. Did he foresee himself being crowned King? Yes. Did he influence the circumstances surrounding it? I didn't get that impression. His comment, "Why do you think I came all this way?", certainly proves he knew his fate, but not necessarily that he had any control over it. Same with Danaerys destroying Kings Landing. He may have watched/foreseen/predicted it, but there was no sign he could have prevented it or approved of it in any way.

Bran seemed like the ultimate Buddha. All-knowing and all-accepting, without a personal agenda. There was no sign he wanted power, but he accepted it as his fate.

In the end, his true motives were left unanswered and up to us to interpret.

If we look at him from start to end, there isn't much room for interpretation. You easily described (in the first part of your post) essentially the same thing I see.

 

[Sorinth]

Did Bran ever mention being king as a goal?

Yes, he said that's why he came to King's Landing.

Why are you assuming Bran wants to break the wheel when the only person to ever talk about doing that was Dany?

 

[Sorinth]

I never got the impression Bran controlled events. He mostly observed them. Yeah, I know, Hodor. But those were exceptions. Almost all of his powers involved seeing, not doing. Did he foresee himself being crowned King? Yes. Did he influence the circumstances surrounding it? I didn't get that impression. His comment, "Why do you think I came all this way?", certainly proves he knew his fate, but not necessarily that he had any control over it. Same with Danaerys destroying Kings Landing. He may have watched/foreseen/predicted it, but there was no sign he could have prevented it or approved of it in any way.

Bran seemed like the ultimate Buddha. All-knowing and all-accepting, without a personal agenda. There was no sign he wanted power, but he accepted it as his fate.

In the end, his true motives were left unanswered and up to us to interpret.

Had Bran not told Sam and Jon about his true parentage then it's very unlikely that Dany would have burnt KL. He absolutely did influence events.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yes, he said that's why he came to King's Landing.

Why are you assuming Bran wants to break the wheel when the only person to ever talk about doing that was Dany?

I was asking before that episode, that much should be obvious since im talking about character development, and also you are the one inferring want. His quote says only that he knew to be there because he knew his name would be brought up. He's a friggin seer ffs. Get with the program, look at his character motivations all throughout the show and your inferrence makes no sense.

Also, why do you keep ommiting other things ive said that already give precision to your question. It's not a matter of breaking the wheel per se, i made that abundantly clear when i talked about Bran seeing multiple outcomes and choosing that one because it was the best of all outcomes and incidently breaking the wheel was part of that best outcome. And we do see that, that he chose this, because telling Jon about his heritage was part of securing that outcome.

All of this is very tiresome. Keep inferring motivations that are opposite of the characters if it makes you happy. Yeah Bran wanted the throne all along. It fits so well with how he was developed.. smh.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Had Bran not told Sam and Jon about his true parentage then it's very unlikely that Dany would have burnt KL. He absolutely did influence events.

Bran told Sam to do it....

It's all the same. Bran pushed for it.

 

[Sword]

 

[Sorinth]

Bran told Sam to do it....

It's all the same. Bran pushed for it.

Which means he wasn't some Bhudda like person who just accepts everything the way it is which is what @Lshap was saying.

 

[Lshap]

Had Bran not told Sam and Jon about his true parentage then it's very unlikely that Dany would have burnt KL. He absolutely did influence events.

That's true, revealing what he saw certainly had an effect on some of the characters. Varys died because of it. So did Baelish. Not sure I agree about it being the cause of Dany burning KL. But in all those cases, Bran's role was to reveal events as they happened, not to manipulate the events themselves.