TV: Game of Thrones | Series Finale - II

[Blender]

What is everyone’s single favorite episode?

I think “Winds of Winter” is tops for me.

"Hardhome" is the best one for me.

 

[Eisen]

What is everyone’s single favorite episode?

I think “Winds of Winter” is tops for me.

I can't possibly say. I prefer the talking heavy episodes (some fights are fantastic as well, though (Mountain-Martell, Hound-Brienne)). Probably one with a lot of Varys. Wall episodes were great as well.

 

[chicagoskycam]

"Hardhome" is the best one for me.

Hardhome had some of the best moments for me. Other than the battle I can't recall the remainder of the episode. I tend to think about portions of these episodes.

The train loot battle when Jamie and Bronn 1st see the dragon sent a chill down my spine. The battle was executed very well from start to finish. The tension as you for the 1st time you have characters you like on both sides of the battle. The long shot with Bronn wading through the carnage. Didn't care for the ending in the water but it was damn good.

Dany getting her army

Tyrion's 1st trial by combat. Tywin's 1st scene on the show and many others with him. Dany 1st riding into Winterfell. The red wedding was gut-wrenching. So many others to list.

 

[Emperoreddy]

For me the blowing up of the sept was the big holy shit for me. Just the way they slowly built the tension up with the music. It was mesmerizing.

Plus the episode had that awesome shot of Dany finally setting sail.

Oh yeah. And the R+L=J reveal and King in da norf

 

[Beau Knows]

You mean except Aemon Targaryan

Let's ignore everything so we can pile on the last season cause that makes us cool!!!!

Uh didn't Aemon Targaryen choose to go to The Wall himself?

He also said that when his family was being killed he had a difficult choice to make, but he chose to stay at the wall.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

As much as I agree with you about your opinion of the show and disagree with The Mighty Duck Man about his, when it comes to this exchange, unless I'm missing something, I think he's right about his criticism of your comment.

This....

.... Is not anything close to the equivalent sentiment of this:

The former is reasonable, and not something anyone unfairly scoffed at, as far as I can see.

The latter, however, implies that a reasonable person should outright stop defending GOT the moment a person in a position of high authority merely proclaims that it's tripe, and that behaving otherwise is completely unreasonable. Not "behaving otherwise" as in "if they refuse to even consider the reasoning of the person of authority", but "behaving otherwise" as in "even if they consider the reasoning and disagree with it, they should still stop, purely because of that authority."

And that's not even factoring in that, in the initial comment, the person of authority calling it "tripe" isn't even providing valid reasoning to consider in the first place.

At the very least, you misspoke and said something unreasonable that you may not have intended. Right?
---

Really though, we should all stop appealing to authority and appealing to popularity altogether (comparing review scores and user polls). It's all such a silly way of arguing, especially when the season itself is already so observably and indefensibly full of holes and imperfections (even if we're being as generous as we can be, it's at least "clumsiness") that it shouldn't even be necessary to look at the anecdotal evidence.

The original comment was simply a rib. Wasn’t meant to be taken as serious criticism.

 

[Shareefruck]

The bolded is just as subjective as using reviews and polls to justify an opinion in one direction or the other.

It’s a bunk attitude to claim someone is wrong for liking the season or thinking it worked. Just as bunk as someone telling you you are wrong for disliking it and thinking it has indefensible holes.

Your opinion is valid. I don’t agree with it, but it’s valid. So is mine though.

In the bolded statement, I've conceded enough ground that merely feeling that the season has been a bit clumsy (poorly paced, rushed, or ineloquent) and nothing more can still be considered valid. The statement doesn't suggest that someone is wrong for liking it anyways or for arguing that it isn't AS flawed as some make it out to be. The fact that it's been at least a bit clumsy, I think has been validly backed up throughout the entire thread. I haven't seen anybody in this thread even bother to make a considered counter-argument without conceding at least that much (yourself included if I'm remembering your posts correctly).

The only way to argue that this isn't a valid statement would be to argue that not only have there not been holes (which is more debateable) but that it ALSO hasn't been remotely poorly paced or rushed. I don't think even you have argued the second part of that, have you?

You can disagree with the statement being true (although you would have to take the pretty-difficult-to-argue position above do so, IMO), but over the course of the arguments in this thread there are reasonable grounds to be fairly certain that the season has at least had clumsy execution. Even if you disagree with that, there's no obvious fallacy being used there.

Using reviews and polls to prove an opinion, on the other hand, is an outright logical fallacy that compromises the argument altogether. Its problems don't really have anything to do being subjective. They have to do with being irrelevant distractions to the points being made.

 

[Shareefruck]

The original comment was simply a rib. Wasn’t meant to be taken as serious criticism.

Even a simple rib can be criticized as being unfair.

Aside from that, correct me if I'm wrong (I could be missing/forgetting the post), but I don't think you defended against The Mighty Duck Man's criticism of its literal meaning by clarifying that it was just a rib that wasn't intended to be taken seriously, did you? Your follow-up posts seemed to suggest that you thought there was nothing wrong with the statement itself or what it implies, as if the criticism were baseless or something.

And even if it were clearly just a rib that wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it would still be fair and make sense to respond with the comment that The Mighty Duck Man did:

That poster would defend GoT even if the ghosts of Tolkien and Jordan and Lewis all simultaneously materialized and called it tripe. [clearly an unreasonable implication if taken literally]

Honestly this tells us way more about you than anyone else.

 

[firewagonHOCKEY]

What is everyone’s single favorite episode?

I think “Winds of Winter” is tops for me.

Season 3, Karl Tanner - fooking legend.

 

[kingsfan28]

Did anyone confirm if that's snow or the ashes of all the burned that covered everything ? When the dragon woke up when Jon approached, it sure looked like snow was completely covering him.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Uh didn't Aemon Targaryen choose to go to The Wall himself?

He also said that when his family was being killed he had a difficult choice to make, but he chose to stay at the wall.

Sounds like Jon huh

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Even a simple rib can be criticized as being unfair.

Aside from that, correct me if I'm wrong (I could be missing/forgetting the post), but I don't think you defended against The Mighty Duck Man's criticism of its literal meaning by clarifying that it was just a rib that wasn't intended to be taken seriously, did you? Your follow-up posts seemed to suggest that you thought there was nothing wrong with the statement itself or what it implies, as though the criticism were fabricated or something.

I’m pretty sure I’ve already clarified this, but yes, I disagree with changing one’s opinion on the whim of an appeal to authority. However, as you’ve quoted, I also clarified that we should lend value to authority in art and storytelling when developing our own opinions.

My original rib was simply a hyperbolized version of the above sentiment.

 

[Duke33]

Did anyone confirm if that's snow or the ashes of all the burned that covered everything ? When the dragon woke up when Jon approached, it sure looked like snow was completely covering him.

I don’t know if anything needed to be officially confirmed. I thought it was pretty obvious it was snow by that point. When the dragon flies off with Daenerys’s body too, out over the ocean, it looked like snow was falling pretty heavily.

 

[Beau Knows]

Sounds like Jon huh

Nope.

Jon was sent to the wall as punishment for killing the Queen. Aemon went there voluntarily.

How in the world would the Unsullied and the Dothraki be satisfied with Jon being sent to the wall? His brother is the king, his sister rules the North and he is (or was?) The Lord Commander. He can leave at any time, nobody will stop him. He would be pardoned by Bran if he did. It makes very little sense.

That is not at all the same situation that Aemon was in.

 

[discostu]

Did anyone confirm if that's snow or the ashes of all the burned that covered everything ? When the dragon woke up when Jon approached, it sure looked like snow was completely covering him.

On a podcast I listen to where one of the hosts communicates with many on the production side of the show said she was told it was a mix of both.

 

[MadDevil]

It felt like they were going for kind of a nuclear winter feel.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Admittedly, I thought you were arguing in favor of something more egregious than what you're describing now. Still, though, I don't really see that argument as being valid.

For starters, that framing is still guilty of the same basic principle, despite receding severity and improved messaging. If you cannot come to a conclusion about something, it would be most natural and probable to default to a neutral position. Erring on the side of positivity is still skewing that perception for the sake of comfort. That's still a form of self-delusion, as I see it. Logically, I really don't see a way that one can have it both ways-- there's kind of a necessary and inescapable trade-off between that kind of comfort and honesty.

I also don't see how it can be anything but self-delusion to remember the good times and not focus on the bad times, especially when it comes to the subject of expressing your opinion about how good or bad we think something is, like we are. If your opinion isn't appropriately factoring in the entire picture that you're otherwise most accurately aware of, exactly as it is, that's pretty much self-delusion by definition, isn't it? And it's the opposite of learning from one's mistakes.

And again, I am in no way defending things like dwelling on mistakes or being angry/upset/disappointed/histrionic about them. That sounds more like spiraling pessimism than dispassionate realism/honesty to me, which I agreed earlier is much worse than deliberate optimism. I agree that THIS is unhealthy/unnecesssary as backed up by science, but it's not anything I'm arguing in favor of.

My point has been that you can acknowledge faults and purely call things as you see them, without taking them personally or letting them negatively affect your mood. As I conceded earlier, you CAN'T gain that same immediate comfort if you're being honest, I must admit-- But if you're looking at it the right way, it's kind of replaced by something more satisfying/invigorating/grounding (call it intellectual satisfaction, moral satisfaction, truth-telling satisfaction, I don't know).

If successfully approached that way, I really don't see how that could negatively affect one's health (and I think it would be tricky to find studies that could even determine if someone were taking that approach in the first place). Because, I mean... stress is what does the damage-- If one is feeling rewarded and liberated by expressing their honest thoughts without compromise, and it's making them happier to do this rather than stressed, why would that shorten their life or be unhealthy? It doesn't really add up.

The only counter-argument I can imagine reasonably giving ground to is that this approach isn't necessarily possible for everyone and that we should be tolerant of this. But if it is possible.... one has to acknowledge that it would be the better approach, no?

--
FYI, admittedly, even if it the above weren't the case, I would likely still lean towards feeling that the sacrifice is worthwhile (something that I haven't really argued for yet), because I generally value principle over practicality, but honestly, I don't see a compelling reason why it would even need to get to that point in the first place.

If you are looking for validation I don't think I am the fellow for it.

I am certainly not saying what you are doing is any less of a way to live. Every way has it's pros and cons. Just that there are health benefits to a certain approach. It in a way compares to how some err on the side of caution. Health benefits. One can then argue back how no, you have to live life on the edge to fully reach Eudaimonic happiness.

That is the form of happiness you describe and aspire toward.

You took the time and appear genuine so one thing I will say, there are always pros and cons to every approach. In this case, you created an inferior other. Someone beneath you. Someone weaker than you. Someone delusional. Someone to whom you have reiterated over and over could never relate toward. Now that's something you might find interesting. It's as if it might be a side effect of what you aspire toward. As if there is something missing from the equation.

The benefit of this introspection is that if one realizes a shortcoming in an approach one can correct it. One with mine is that I am wrong sometimes but I couldn't care less anymore. So my con is gone. Of course you can't take that approach when you are getting paid...

Now I gather the last parts are certainly more interesting to you than the previous philosophical ramblings of some random dude on the internet.

 

[Peasy]

The Watchers on the Wall is probably my favourite ep.

 

[Jovavic]

For me the blowing up of the sept was the big holy **** for me. Just the way they slowly built the tension up with the music. It was mesmerizing.

Plus the episode had that awesome shot of Dany finally setting sail.

Oh yeah. And the R+L=J reveal and King in da norf

And we find out why it's called King's Landing

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nope.

Jon was sent to the wall as punishment for killing the Queen. Aemon went there voluntarily.

How in the world would the Unsullied and the Dothraki be satisfied with Jon being sent to the wall? His brother is the king, his sister rules the North and he is (or was?) The Lord Commander. He can leave at any time, nobody will stop him. He would be pardoned by Bran if he did. It makes very little sense.

That is not at all the same situation that Aemon was in.

Not sure on the Dothraki....they had no representative at the council......

In any event, sending Jon to the Wall seemed like lip service. Kind of a wink and a nod that Jon would go away and that would be his penance for killing a queen that no one really cared for. Got the Unsullied off their back though!

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Nope.

Jon was sent to the wall as punishment for killing the Queen. Aemon went there voluntarily.

How in the world would the Unsullied and the Dothraki be satisfied with Jon being sent to the wall? His brother is the king, his sister rules the North and he is (or was?) The Lord Commander. He can leave at any time, nobody will stop him. He would be pardoned by Bran if he did. It makes very little sense.

That is not at all the same situation that Aemon was in.

Aemon went to the wall to avoid conflict with his brother, the Mad King. He would not have gone to the wall otherwise. Bran is not going to pardon him, I mean...Did you miss Brans entire arc? I have trouble continuing this with someone who legit believes Bran will make personal decisions based on emotions

You did watch the entire show right? Not just the final season/episode?

 

[Beau Knows]

Aemon went to the wall to avoid conflict with his brother, the Mad King. He would not have gone to the wall otherwise.

Correct, it was his decision. It's nothing like Jon Snow being sent away as punishment.

Bran is not going to pardon him, I mean...Did you miss Brans entire arc? I have trouble continuing this with someone who legit believes Bran will make personal decisions based on emotions

Why not? There is absolutly no threat now that the Unsullied and Dothraki have left. Do you really believe that he would have Jon Snow executed if he showed up in Winterfell? Nobody else wants to harm Jon Snow. Hell everyone probably sees him as a hero for killing dragon Hitler. Keeping Jon at the wall now is pointless.

You did watch the entire show right? Not just the final season/episode?

You don't have to be such a baby.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Correct, it was his decision. It's nothing like Jon Snow being sent away as punishment.



Why not? There is absolutly no threat now that the Unsullied and Dothraki have left. Do you really believe that he would have Jon Snow executed if he showed up in Winterfell? Nobody else wants to harm Jon Snow. Hell everyone probably sees him as a hero for killing dragon Hitler. Keeping Jon at the wall now is pointless.



You don't have to be such a baby.

Yikes

 

[glovesave_35]

Aemon went to the wall to avoid conflict with his brother, the Mad King. He would not have gone to the wall otherwise. Bran is not going to pardon him, I mean...Did you miss Brans entire arc? I have trouble continuing this with someone who legit believes Bran will make personal decisions based on emotions

You did watch the entire show right? Not just the final season/episode?

Well he did let big sis keep her kingdom for no apparent benefit to Westeros.

 

[MadDevil]

Aemon went to the wall to avoid conflict with his brother, the Mad King. He would not have gone to the wall otherwise. Bran is not going to pardon him, I mean...Did you miss Brans entire arc? I have trouble continuing this with someone who legit believes Bran will make personal decisions based on emotions

You did watch the entire show right? Not just the final season/episode?

Aerys was Aemon's nephew, not his brother. He joined the Night's Watch to avoid being used against his brother, Aegon the Unlikely.