TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XI -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Neutrinos]

Cersei becoming the Night Queen certainly makes sense. The allure of being a forever Queen and maybe bringing her children back (even is wrights) are certainly on brand.

We didn't see Viserion or the NK, only WWs, only one of Danys dragons in the ending/preview. Maybe the good guys win at Winterfell with 2v0 dragons, but the NK takes Kings Landing, adds to his army and sets up the final, final battle?

I think the only one that could be brought back would be Tommen. I'm pretty sure the others were destroyed when she blew up the Sept

 

[Tuggy]

Old video but I just watched it for the first time. Stumbled on it down the YT rabbit hole. Something to keep me entertained until Sunday

Thought it was a well done video.



Another one

 

[Jovavic]

See, to me I think a point they are making is that all of these different factions with all of these resources (Dany w/Dothraki and the Unsullied, Cersei w/Golden Company, etc.) are individually and together no match for the White Walker army. On the surface there is nothing they can do to stop their march. That's why I'm expecting some kind of deus ex machina. Maybe it's Melisandre or something like that.

Yep, The Red Woman will save the day with her fire wielding Acolytes of Light (not a real group)

 

[Shareefruck]

Can you define what you mean by fan-service and give an example? I see this term used incorrectly on a regular basis and want to make sure what it is you actually mean.

I probably am using it wrong. I don't really mean fan-service in the most conventional/common sense.

What I mean is that moments between characters no longer feel like they're naturally arising in service of character development/story/good writing-- Instead, they feel like overly kitschy and gimmicky "You love it when these guys are together, and everyone wants to see this, so we're going out of our way to give it to you" or "Hey remember that thing you love about this character? Let's reference it again for old-time sake" moments that exist for their own sake (and for the sake of "cute" wink-to-the-audience/in-jokey amusement). I'll need to be reminded of specific examples, but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm referring to-- they're everywhere. Virtually every scene seems to be obsessed with poking fun at past dynamics/moments between characters that have been established. A bit of that peppered here and there can feel charming and effective/work in service of establishing who characters are, but it's completely overtaken the show and felt like total overkill for a couple seasons now, IMO. As a result, it kind of just ends up feeling like the show is concerned with spending all of its time celebrating itself rather than unfolding organically.

It all gives off more of a "crowd-pleasing fan-fiction" vibe than a "legitimately strong storytelling" vibe now, IMO. And I get that a lot of people do enjoy that, but I'm finding it obnoxious, personally.

Edit: An egregious example that jumps out at me-- Tyrion repeating his dying with a belly full of wine comment and connecting with Jaime through it made me cringe pretty hard at how forced it felt.

 

[discostu]

Like I said in an older thread, it's an old chess piece that's been on the board that the writers don't know what to do with this point so they're kind of getting the 'Ghost' treatment. She could sweep the field clean in Westeros with them, but are a bit of an awkward match against an equal sized army of undead in the middle of winter. They could even be a massive liability considering they don't wear armour and casualties get raised back up to fight again.

I agree that the Dothraki have been an afterthought. As a military asset, they've always seemed to be a one shot deal, where they're brought in and used in a battle right away. They're not likely to sit around and wait to be deployed. By this point, I'm sure that most would have split off and their own way.

When used though, like the Loot Train battle, they are fantastic to watch. I'm guessing they get some focus next week in the battle scenes. But, the writers probably have their problem solved by having them fully wiped out regardless of what the battle outcome is.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I was to see all of the dead characters come back as White Walkers. That would be a hoot.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

But, the writers probably have their problem solved by having them fully wiped out regardless of what the battle outcome is.

Which wouldn't be that unrealistic

The Unsullied and Dothraki as well as Northern forces are going against force none have ever dealt with and it will certainly be something for Unsullied and Dothraki IMO to deal with fellow Unsullied/Dothraki rising from dead and fighting them (Same with Northern forces)

 

[izzy]

its gonna be white walker hodor come through, kill theon and pick up bran and walk away like old times

 

[Jack Straw]

I was mulling over my thoughts for what comes next, and I feel like we are in for a massive subversion of our expectations. My current operating theory is that the Battle of Winterfell actually does spell the end of the Night King (at great cost), and the final few episodes will deal with what's left of the northern forces battling Cersei and Euron for the throne - while conventional wisdom would have the Night King last until the finale.

I think that'd be a pretty big troll job - killing off "the big bad" halfway through the season, and having the final episodes resolve the conflicts of the seven kingdoms and determine who wins the Iron Throne.

This is my thinking too. There really is not much (if any) plot involving the White Walkers. There more like a force of nature that everyone will have to try to survive. The central conflict of the show has always been Starks vs Lannisters. I could see there being some twist involving the Night King but I think the threat of the white walkers will effectively be over after this week.

And I also agree that a lot of people will feel they've been trolled and not be very happy about it.

 

[David Dennison]

Random question but what major character has been introduced most recently? Euron?

It's obviously a little subjective in what you consider a major character, but someone who has had a major influence on the plot. I wouldn't count someone like Harry Strickland or Lyanna Mormont.

It just doesn't seem like we have gotten any new significant characters in awhile, but am I missing someone?

 

[Em etah Eh]

With the importance of sending the Umbers north to get additional forces, what's going on with the Reeds? Last we saw Meera, she was going home to be with her family til the end or whatever. She's seen the army of the dead first hand, surprised they are just going to go ahead and wait around and see what happens. You'd think somebody would have been sent to get whatever forces they had left too... Was there just not enough need to expand the Reed storyline for the show, other than to get Bran to 3ER? I know this is a nitpicky post but I couldn't remember if Meera had died or not and had to look up how that ended and just started thinking about these scenarios.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Random question but what major character has been introduced most recently? Euron?

It's obviously a little subjective in what you consider a major character, but someone who has had a major influence on the plot. I wouldn't count someone like Harry Strickland or Lyanna Mormont.

It just doesn't seem like we have gotten any new significant characters in awhile, but am I missing someone?

I don't think you are wrong - as the story has built to its climax, they've stopped introducing characters. Of course, we are also on the cusp of a rather large cull, too.

My bets for the next episode - basically, I think Danaerys' inner circle is toast (part of an ongoing plot thread towards my previously mentioned theory of destabilizing her to the point where she drops out of the race for the throne), whereas I think most of the Starks will be OK - although I feel Bran and the Night King will both perish. Unfortunately, a lot of top lieutenants are going to bite it, but not all of them, as someone will need to lead charges against Cersei and Co.

Jon - Lives.
Dany - Lives.
Sansa - Lives.
Arya - Dies.
Bran - Dies.
Gendry - Dies.
Beric - Dies.
The Hound - Lives.
Davos - Lives.
Tyrion - Lives.
Jamie - Dies.
Brienne - Dies.
Theon - Dies.
Podrick - Lives.
Jorah - Dies.
Grey Worm - Dies.
Missandei - Dies.
Varys - Dies.
Sam - Lives.
Gilly - Dies.
Little Sam - Dies.
Lyanna - Lives.
Edd - Dies.
Tormund - Dies.
Ghost - Dies.
Drogon - Dies.
Rhaegal - Lives.
Night King - Dies.
Viserion - Dies.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Random question but what major character has been introduced most recently? Euron?

It's obviously a little subjective in what you consider a major character, but someone who has had a major influence on the plot. I wouldn't count someone like Harry Strickland or Lyanna Mormont.

It just doesn't seem like we have gotten any new significant characters in awhile, but am I missing someone?

Pox girl. Could be a significant player in Bronn's arc...

Just kidding. I think it has to be Euron?

 

[David Dennison]

Pox girl. Could be a significant player in Bronn's arc...

Just kidding. I think it has to be Euron?

Maybe a War of the Worlds type, bacteria and disease kills the zombies/aliens?

Nobody:
Night King:*scratch-scratch*

 

[ThePhoenixx]

High wisdom, average intelligence.



Excuse me?

I saw another post a while back where a poster was guessing D&D attributes for the main characters.

As someone who grew up playing the first and second edition the most any of them can have is 18 in any attribute unless they read a Tome or bathe in a magical pool for instance. It's not something you can earn.

The only individuals who may have exceptional (19+) attributes are Tyrion, Varys, Cersei and Sam. Might have missed another one or two. Oops. GiantsBane. Magical Giants milk.

The vast majority of the rest probably have a hard time reading anything at all. Can't remember any bathing in magical pools either.

As for Cersei, she listened to her father when she was young. High intelligence. When she was young she was played constantly. Low wisdom.

Now she has high intelligence and high wisdom. She is also a reader. May have absorbed a few tomes in that time.

There is a reason everyone who messed with her is dead. Her power would be untouchable if it were not for 100k Dothraki, etc.

 

[Osprey]

I have seen reactions ranging from feeling awkward to outrage on social media, so yes there has been a wide range of negative reactions. You also ignored most of my post which was making my point, so I don't see the point in engaging further unless you're going to circle back and address it.

I don't feel that bringing up Arya's murderous ways makes a point about her love scene. Seeing Maisie, an actual person, disrobe is a lot more "real" and, thus, causes a more real reaction, than seeing her fake-killing someone. It's natural to have a different reaction to one than the other, so I don't think that it's fair to use one to try to discredit the other. I chose to not address it because you'd accused me of a strawman and I wasn't sure if I could resist a similar accusation, and I didn't want to escalate an argument with a poster that I enjoy agreeing with usually.

Also about the Arya scene I personally liked it. She was smooth the way she went about it asking body count and being practical about it rather then girly about it while he was nervous as hell.

It makes you wonder: how different would the reactions have been if it had been Arya who was nervous and Gendry who was trying to lose his virginity?

 

[Shareefruck]

It makes you wonder: how different would the reactions have been if it had been Arya who was nervous and Gendry who was trying to lose his virginity?

People always say this kind of thing, but personally, I think it's pretty warranted that the reaction would be completely different if roles were reversed, because the differences in biological "equipment" involved would warrant that difference in reaction/severity, rather than it being some sort of a double standard. Men and women should not be treated the same in that regard, IMO.

For some reason people don't bring this up, but being pressured to receive sex is significantly more traumatizing/serious than being forced to give it, whether nerves are involved or not. To expect the same reaction to depictions of both doesn't make sense to me.

If the show depicted Arya putting on a strap-on and doing the same thing, then the two might be comparable. But I think the reaction would change accordingly to reflect that (well, if they could get past how silly that sounds, anyways).

 

[TheAngryHank]

Which wouldn't be that unrealistic

The Unsullied and Dothraki as well as Northern forces are going against force none have ever dealt with and it will certainly be something for Unsullied and Dothraki IMO to deal with fellow Unsullied/Dothraki rising from dead and fighting them (Same with Northern forces)

If they equiped with dragon glass the dothraki would cut them down like rain.

 

[HammerTime44]

I think the only one that could be brought back would be Tommen. I'm pretty sure the others were destroyed when she blew up the Sept

Cersei told Qyburn to burn him so he could be with his brother and sister.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't think you are wrong - as the story has built to its climax, they've stopped introducing characters. Of course, we are also on the cusp of a rather large cull, too.

My bets for the next episode - basically, I think Danaerys' inner circle is toast (part of an ongoing plot thread towards my previously mentioned theory of destabilizing her to the point where she drops out of the race for the throne), whereas I think most of the Starks will be OK - although I feel Bran and the Night King will both perish. Unfortunately, a lot of top lieutenants are going to bite it, but not all of them, as someone will need to lead charges against Cersei and Co.

Jon - Lives.
Dany - Lives.
Sansa - Lives.
Arya - Dies.
Bran - Dies.
Gendry - Dies.
Beric - Dies.
The Hound - Lives.
Davos - Lives.
Tyrion - Lives.
Jamie - Dies.
Brienne - Dies.
Theon - Dies.
Podrick - Lives.
Jorah - Dies.
Grey Worm - Dies.
Missandei - Dies.
Varys - Dies.
Sam - Lives.
Gilly - Dies.
Little Sam - Dies.
Lyanna - Lives.
Edd - Dies.
Tormund - Dies.
Ghost - Dies.
Drogon - Dies.
Rhaegal - Lives.
Night King - Dies.
Viserion - Dies.

Why you killing Ghost?

That’s cold.

 

[Osprey]

People always say this kind of thing, but personally, I think it's pretty warranted that the reaction would be completely different if roles were reversed, because the differences in biological "equipment" involved would warrant that difference in reaction/severity, rather than it being some sort of a double standard. Men and women should not be treated the same in that regard, IMO.

Well, that's literally what a double standard is.

double standard:
a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another

especially : a code of morals that applies more severe standards of sexual behavior to women than to men

Not all double standards are bad, but they're still double standards. Here, I disagree that a double standard is justified, especially on the basis of sexual "equipment." What makes one gender's equipment seem different? It's the association of one with violation, right? That association is in our heads. If men and women had the opposite sexual equipment, men would still violate women, just a bit differently, and we'd create the opposite association.

For some reason people don't bring this up, but being pressured to receive sex is significantly more traumatizing/serious than being forced to give it, whether nerves are involved or not. To expect the same reaction to depictions of both doesn't make sense to me.

This doesn't follow for me. If a man were to make a girl do all of the work, it probably wouldn't be any less traumatizing than if he did all of the work, himself. In fact, it might even be more traumatizing, since the girl might blame herself for following his orders, whereas, if he forced himself on her, she might rationalize that there was nothing that she could do about it.

Anyways, all of this is a bit beside the point because what I was really getting at is that I have a theory that many are critical of those who are uncomfortable with the scene because they construe it as being uncomfortable with the fact that the scene is female empowering and feel that they have to defend it. I could be wrong, but the criticism of people for simply being uncomfortable seeing a semi-naked Arya seems a little uncalled for, so it makes me wonder if something else is going on. If the scene were other way around, being uncomfortable with it wouldn't receive as much flak, I reckon.

 

[Deen]

Hottest woman on the show.

Maybe. We haven't seen the Giant that nursed Tormund yet. I hope that Ian McShane is a White Walker.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Maybe. We haven't seen the Giant that nursed Tormund yet. I hope that Ian McShane is a White Walker.

 

[Shareefruck]

Edit: never mind, that doesn't really hold up

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don’t think it is impossible we go full Tolkien here with the final war against Cersei bascially being a scouting of the shire situation.