TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part X -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Neutrinos]

Plus Catelyn hated Jon. She hated that he was alive. She's actually a pretty big candidate to tell Robert.

The only reason Catelyn hated Jon was because she thought he was a product of Ned's infidelity. She'd have no reason to dislike him if she found out the truth about his lineage

 

[HanSolo]

The only reason Catelyn hated Jon was because she thought he was a product of Ned's infidelity. She'd have no reason to dislike him if she found out the truth about his lineage

True...didn't think of that.

 

[glovesave_35]

Plus Catelyn hated Jon. She hated that he was alive. She's actually a pretty big candidate to tell Robert.

Well she hated him because he was the son of another woman and her husband. So...

 

[ArGarBarGar]

What if she doesn't believe him and in frustration mentions the truth to someone and it gets to Robert, somehow?

 

[RandV]

Yup, they were both wards of Jon Arryn. Jon Arryn actually started Robert's Rebellion by refusing to hand over Ned and Robert (who were with him in the Vale) to The Mad King and instead raising his banners and rebelling. Ned and Robert followed suit, and the three of them cut a deal with Hoster Tully to get the Riverlands on their side as well.

This is more of a 'book' theory, but has no material impact plus fits just as well with the show and falls into the interesting secret backstory category: What if the Mad King was right to be paranoid about the Starks?

Now we're lacking a lot of information, but prior to Robert's rebellion you there doesn't seem to be a lot of co-mingling among the great houses. If they were intermarrying you'd have something like the eventual European dynasty's where all the royalty were eventually related. Yet if that's the case here's Lord Rickard Stark in short order using his children to bind house Baratheon, Aryn, and Tully to the Starks. You have to think that once they lost their dragons it was only a matter of time before someone took a run at the Targaryan's, and that's a huge block of power.

Why did King Aerys summon Rickard and Brandon Stark to Kings Landing and burn them alive? Sure he was mad but that above probably had everything to do with it.

 

[Neutrinos]

This is more of a 'book' theory, but has no material impact plus fits just as well with the show and falls into the interesting secret backstory category: What if the Mad King was right to be paranoid about the Starks?

Now we're lacking a lot of information, but prior to Robert's rebellion you there doesn't seem to be a lot of co-mingling among the great houses. If they were intermarrying you'd have something like the eventual European dynasty's where all the royalty were eventually related. Yet if that's the case here's Lord Rickard Stark in short order using his children to bind house Baratheon, Aryn, and Tully to the Starks. You have to think that once they lost their dragons it was only a matter of time before someone took a run at the Targaryan's, and that's a huge block of power.

Why did King Aerys summon Rickard and Brandon Stark to Kings Landing and burn them alive? Sure he was mad but that above probably had everything to do with it.

The Starks may have pushed for the North's independence, but based on their reputation, I don't think they would've made a play for the Iron Throne

 

[HanSolo]

The Starks may have pushed for the North's independence, but based on their reputation, I don't think they would've made a play for the Iron Throne

More that they were bound by oath to serve the Targaryens but it's unlikely all the same unless they had a Joffrey tier heir.

 

[Blender]

This is more of a 'book' theory, but has no material impact plus fits just as well with the show and falls into the interesting secret backstory category: What if the Mad King was right to be paranoid about the Starks?

Now we're lacking a lot of information, but prior to Robert's rebellion you there doesn't seem to be a lot of co-mingling among the great houses. If they were intermarrying you'd have something like the eventual European dynasty's where all the royalty were eventually related. Yet if that's the case here's Lord Rickard Stark in short order using his children to bind house Baratheon, Aryn, and Tully to the Starks. You have to think that once they lost their dragons it was only a matter of time before someone took a run at the Targaryan's, and that's a huge block of power.

Why did King Aerys summon Rickard and Brandon Stark to Kings Landing and burn them alive? Sure he was mad but that above probably had everything to do with it.

I doubt the Starks would have had any interest in the Iron Throne, but I could definitely see the Starks, Arryns, Tullys, and Baratheons coming together to throw off Targaryen rule in order to gain independence again, with that independence guaranteed by alliances. The Lannisters already had a falling out with them and were unlikely to be hard supporters of the crown, as actually happened in Robert's Rebellion, and the Tyrells supported the crown but more or less intentionally stayed out of the fighting.

 

[RandV]

The Starks may have pushed for the North's independence, but based on their reputation, I don't think they would've made a play for the Iron Throne

I'm not talking about claiming the Iron Throne, I don't think any Stark would want to sit on that. Rather I was more getting at is Rickard Stark possibly aiming to topple the Targaryan dynasty and fracture the power dynamics in Westeros. The Stark's would be the King's of the North again, this time with the Riverlands and the Vale under them giving them a stronger powerbase. Robert would take the Iron Throne and rule the South, with Lyanna Stark as his Queen and perhaps Ned Stark serving under him (kings guard?) cementing an alliance and good relations.

Now if all this was being plotted then Robert, Ned, and Lyanna weren't necessarily in the loop. But either way you can't really disagree that one there appears to be a lack of great house intermarriage prior to Robert's rule, two that Rickard Stark was throwing together a rather impressive alliance, and three the Mad King must have had some reason to call him South and then want to burn him.

 

[glovesave_35]

What if she doesn't believe him and in frustration mentions the truth to someone and it gets to Robert, somehow?

That sounds unlikely based on their personalities and relationship. But obviously in the story Ned felt it was too big of a secret to share for some reason. Definitely reasonable considering the stakes.

 

[Blender]

That sounds unlikely based on their personalities and relationship. But obviously in the story Ned felt it was too big of a secret to share for some reason. Definitely reasonable considering the stakes.

Ned didn't know Catelyn very well at the time though, they had just gotten married and barely knew each other. Jon and Robb are pretty much the same age. He could have probably told her and trusted her with the secret later on life, but that wouldn't have prevented Catelyn from treating Jon like shit all of those years.

 

[RandV]

Ned didn't know Catelyn very well at the time though, they had just gotten married and barely knew each other. Jon and Robb are pretty much the same age. He could have probably told her and trusted her with the secret later on life, but that wouldn't have prevented Catelyn from treating Jon like **** all of those years.

Would also be suspicious if she just started treating him differently one day. Ned can't have any alternative rumours/gossip starting so he just had to bite the bullet and keep the marital heat on himself.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I'm actually more interested to see how Dany reacts to Jon's parentage than Jon.

Incest ain't no thang for Targaryens though, if anything it's a common thing. So maybe she won't care much.

 

[glovesave_35]

Would also be suspicious if she just started treating him differently one day. Ned can't have any alternative rumours/gossip starting so he just had to bite the bullet and keep the marital heat on himself.

If she started acting like a little less of a to like a 4 year old I don't think it would be all that noticeable or make anyone wonder much. Anyways, I'm not super hung up on it.

 

[MadDevil]

Incest ain't no thang for Targaryens though, if anything it's a common thing. So maybe she won't care much.

It's not so much the sleeping together part I'm thinking about as much as her entire life she's wanted to reclaim "her" throne and now she finds out that Jon is the actual heir to the throne. I don't think he really cares about claiming the throne anyway though, so maybe it'll just be a really awkward moment and he'll be like "I don't want it" and they'll move on.

 

[MadDevil]

The less people who know Jon's parentage the less chance there is of it being revealed. I don't think Catelyn would go blabbing about it to Robert, but what if she let's it slip to her sister, or her idiot brother?

 

[glovesave_35]

The less people who know Jon's parentage the less chance there is of it being revealed. I don't think Catelyn would go blabbing about it to Robert, but what if she let's it slip to her sister, or her idiot brother?

I hear you. Obviously, that is the tact Ned took. In the end, it's silly to wonder about because having a hateful not-mom in his life who had no love for him at all definitely helped shape who he became. It goes back to that conversation with Tyrion in Winterfell in season 1 when Tyrion told him to wear "bastard" as a badge of honor and just accept it.

 

[Blender]

It's not so much the sleeping together part I'm thinking about as much as her entire life she's wanted to reclaim "her" throne and now she finds out that Jon is the actual heir to the throne. I don't think he really cares about claiming the throne anyway though, so maybe it'll just be a really awkward moment and he'll be like "I don't want it" and they'll move on.

She already knows he doesn't enjoy the path his life took based on their conversation in season 7. "We all enjoy what we're good at." "I don't."

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Jon was offered to be the legitimate heir of Wintetfell and didnt accept it only because he was in the Nights Watch. I think it should be interesting for him to know he is/was the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne

Dany might not even believe he wouldn't want the Iron Throne, he did accept King in the North after all

 

[Blender]

Jon was offered to be the legitimate heir of Wintetfell and didnt accept it only because he was in the Nights Watch. I think it should be interesting for him to know he is/was the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne

Dany might not even believe he wouldn't want the Iron Throne, he did accept King in the North after all

Jon has never really sought power though, it's always been given to him through his peers.

 

[RandV]

It's not so much the sleeping together part I'm thinking about as much as her entire life she's wanted to reclaim "her" throne and now she finds out that Jon is the actual heir to the throne. I don't think he really cares about claiming the throne anyway though, so maybe it'll just be a really awkward moment and he'll be like "I don't want it" and they'll move on.

However it comes about I never thought this was that big a deal - it was always the Targaryan thing to marry within the family. They were the only ones allowed to openly practice incest in Westeros, being the only remaining Valyrian's and all. Then you have the fact that Jon and Dany have already hooked up, so if they get married do the competing claims really matter anymore?

If anything they just further legitimize each other - Jon represents the traditional inheritance rules, and Dany the original "Fire and Blood" Targaryan strength that originally conquered and unified Westeros. Now granted we know this isn't going to be a fairy tale ending where they both make it to the end to work out this problem, but the question will certain be relevant in the moment once everyone finds out who Jon actually is.

 

[HanSolo]

Jon has never really sought power though, it's always been given to him through his peers.

If the rumors start spreading that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, if Sam supports it with evidence of Rhaegar's annulment, and if Howland Reed is alive and steps up and tells the story of the Tower of Joy (since I doubt the entire realm would trust Bran), and finally if Jon defeats the Night King, the entire nation will stand to name him King for sure.

But that seems like way too much of a happy ending.

 

[Blender]

If the rumors start spreading that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, if Sam supports it with evidence of Rhaegar's annulment, and if Howland Reed is alive and steps up and tells the story of the Tower of Joy (since I doubt the entire realm would trust Bran), and finally if Jon defeats the Night King, the entire nation will stand to name him King for sure.

But that seems like way too much of a happy ending.

Oh for sure I can see a scenario where he becomes King, I just don't think when he finds out he is going to pull a Stannis and start telling everyone he is King and has to obey him.

 

[Neutrinos]

For what it's worth, I do believe Ned told Benjen about Jon's lineage

1:26 "You might, if you knew what it meant"

 

[David Dennison]

For what it's worth, I do believe Ned told Benjen about Jon's lineage

1:26 "You might, if you knew what it meant"

He very well could have, but that quote is pretty ambiguous. And wouldnt he have told him before he ran into a bunch of white walkers?