TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part X -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[peate]

...her?

Ugly as sin, but great style.

 

[HanSolo]

Yeah, it's not like he's got adrenaline pulsing through him or anything

Scared, tired, cold, out of shape. Of all the things to nitpick, this is a strange one.

 

[Neutrinos]

Nutrinos - they've been running/marching through the snow for hours. The adrenaline would have worn off long ago, and an obese individual like Sam would have little control over his body at that point. If anything, it would have been completely unrealistic to see him complete his march.

It's not a "cliche" to have a dead-tired person try to hide from a pursuer rather than continue to outrun them - it's common sense.

You don't get adrenaline by exerting yourself on a hike

 

[Osprey]

Could not disagree more. Writing to appeal to the dumbest members of the audience is how you end up with Two and a Half Men.

The zig-zag complaint was the silliest point ever raised about the show - writers can't be expected to account for that kind of idiocy.

That's exactly the opposite of what I argued. I argued for appealing to the smarter members of the audience, the ones who know that running in a straight line away from the shooter makes you a much easier target to hit.

So there was no need to add the ankle cliche on top of the falling down cliche. It would only make it worse.

It was already made worse by the cliches of him quickly getting up, wasting 10 seconds by looking around, then scrambling to a hiding spot in plain sight. If he had the energy to get up that quickly and scramble behind a rock, he had energy to keep running after his friends, who were only 100 feet in front of him. Having some kind of problem would've helped to justify why he didn't do that. You shouldn't fixate on the ankle injury idea because that was just thrown out as an example of one of many things that might've better justified his choices.

Scared, tired, cold, out of shape. Of all the things to nitpick, this is a strange one.

He wasn't that tired, cold or out of shape. As I just pointed out, he got up quickly and scrambled behind a rock. Nothing was really stopping him from continuing to run after his friends. If they'd shown him exhausted and barely able to stand or make it much further, that would've been just as good as an injury, but that's not what they showed.


(Embedding isn't permitted for this video. Click the link to view it on YouTube and skip to 1:30).

 

[Neutrinos]

That's exactly the opposite of what I argued. I argued for appealing to the smarter members of the audience, the ones who know that running in a straight line away from the shooter makes you a much easier target to hit.



It was already made worse by the cliches of him quickly getting up, looking around for literally 10 seconds, then scrambling to a hiding spot in plain sight. If he had the energy to get up that quickly and scramble behind a rock, he had energy to keep running after his friends, who were only 100 feet in front of him. Having some kind of problem would've helped to justify why he didn't do that. An ankle injury is just an example that you shouldn't fixate on. Any of a number of other things could've better justified his choices.



He really wasn't that tired, cold or out of shape. As I pointed out, he gets up quickly and scrambles behind a rock. Nothing was really stopping him from continuing to run after his friends.

I'm the one who initially suggested the ankle sprain, but as you say, it just needed to be something that prevented him from running away

Also, the White Walkers weren't moving fast, so they should never have been able to catch up to him as quickly as they did. He could've just maintained a brisk walking pace and he would've stayed ahead of them

All in all, the scene just wasn't very well done

 

[Osprey]

Also, the White Walkers weren't moving fast, so they should never have been able to catch up to him as quickly as they did. He could've just maintained a brisk walking pace and he would've stayed ahead of them

That's another good point. Sam was already moving fast enough to keep ahead of the White Walkers when he fell, and quickly getting up and scrambling behind the rock suggested that he still had enough energy to keep up a fast enough pace if he'd wanted to. No good reason was really provided for him to give up and hide. He's a coward, yes, but cowardice wasn't really conveyed in that scene, especially when he calmly looked all around for 10 seconds before deciding what to do.

Basically, the writers had a problem. They had a slow moving enemy following our hero, so there wasn't much natural tension and the only way to generate it was to have our hero stumble and let the enemy catch up to him. You can't really blame the writers for that, I guess, especially because it was important to show that the White Walkers do occasionally spare people, but it maybe could've been written in a slightly more believable and less contrived manner; that's all.

 

[MadDevil]

This is getting into Star Wars level nitpickiness.

 

[Osprey]

This is getting into Star Wars level nitpickiness.

Whenever you have a franchise that people are really into and love discussing, lots of details are going to come up and be discussed. I don't see anything wrong with bringing up nitpicks, especially when a franchise is so good that any criticism seems like one. In fact, I think that it's good to be able to nitpick something that you love, since it proves that you're not just a fanboy who accepts and excuses everything. Nitpicks are only questionable if they're added up to justify a greater criticism, like a judgment of the overall product. No one is doing that here. Besides, it's not like there's much to talk about at the moment. If debating this has given us something to talk about and others to read on this slow day, that's a good thing, IMO. I, personally, don't really care if a subject looks like a nitpick, as long it provides a good debate.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Yeah, it's not like he's got adrenaline pulsing through him or anything

Sam is fat ,and winded ,he was lucky to find a rock.
I was more puzzled why the WW let him live but as said earlier he was probably just left to die.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Whenever you have a franchise that people are really into and love discussing, lots of details are going to come up and be discussed. I don't see anything wrong with bringing up nitpicks, especially when a franchise is so good that any criticism seems like one. In fact, I think that it's good to be able to nitpick something that you love, since it proves that you're not just a fanboy who accepts and excuses everything. Nitpicks are only questionable if they're added up to justify a greater criticism, like a judgment of the overall product. No one is doing that here. Besides, it's not like there's much to talk about at the moment. If debating this has given us something to talk about and others to read on this slow day, that's a good thing, IMO. I, personally, don't really care if a subject looks like a nitpick, as long it provides a good debate.

Agreed ,some like minded people killing time getting amped waiting for the puck drop.

 

[TheAngryHank]

That's exactly the opposite of what I argued. I argued for appealing to the smarter members of the audience, the ones who know that running in a straight line away from the shooter makes you a much easier target to hit.



It was already made worse by the cliches of him quickly getting up, wasting 10 seconds by looking around, then scrambling to a hiding spot in plain sight. If he had the energy to get up that quickly and scramble behind a rock, he had energy to keep running after his friends, who were only 100 feet in front of him. Having some kind of problem would've helped to justify why he didn't do that. You shouldn't fixate on the ankle injury idea because that was just thrown out as an example of one of many things that might've better justified his choices.



He wasn't that tired, cold or out of shape. As I just pointed out, he got up quickly and scrambled behind a rock. Nothing was really stopping him from continuing to run after his friends. If they'd shown him exhausted and barely able to stand or make it much further, that would've been just as good as an injury, but that's not what they showed.


(Embedding isn't permitted for this video. Click the link to view it on YouTube and skip to 1:30).

My feeling on Ramsey and that shot from that range was a great shot on a fixed target with a long bow ,a moving target was an incredible shot,and center mass. That was an amazing shot and very difficult even for a skilled archer like Ramsey.

 

[TheAngryHank]

That's another good point. Sam was already moving fast enough to keep ahead of the White Walkers when he fell, and quickly getting up and scrambling behind the rock suggested that he still had enough energy to keep up a fast enough pace if he'd wanted to. No good reason was really provided for him to give up and hide. He's a coward, yes, but cowardice wasn't really conveyed in that scene, especially when he calmly looked all around for 10 seconds before deciding what to do.

Basically, the writers had a problem. They had a slow moving enemy following our hero, so there wasn't much natural tension and the only way to generate it was to have our hero stumble and let the enemy catch up to him. You can't really blame the writers for that, I guess, especially because it was important to show that the White Walkers do occasionally spare people, but it maybe could've been written in a slightly more believable and less contrived manner; that's all.

In that snow it appeared Sam had lost his sense of direction among being tired ,scared shitless. Him freezing solid and curling in a ball seems his go to survival skill.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Prince Porkchop isnt going to outrun a horse, undead or not

 

[MadDevil]

A fat man, who calls himself a coward, running through the snow getting tired and trying to hide seems completely plausible to me. As does a kid who was a prisoner of a psychopath and undoubtedly scared shitless not taking a moment to realize he should zig zag when said psychopath was trying to kill him.

 

[Neutrinos]

A fat man, who calls himself a coward, running through the snow getting tired and trying to hide seems completely plausible to me. As does a kid who was a prisoner of a psychopath and undoubtedly scared ****less not taking a moment to realize he should zig zag when said psychopath was trying to kill him.

He didn't stop running because he was tired. He stopped because the writers wanted the White Walkers to walk past him

If you watch the scene again, he actually falls right by the basket that Eddison dropped (presumably when he began to run), so Sam had really only run a few meters before he tripped. There's no way he would've been too tired to RUN FOR HIS LIFE at that point

 

[Dale Gribble]

The one timeline thing that always trips me out is how Varys manages to go to Dorne, speaks with the Queen of Thorns and the sand snakes, and then later manages to get back to Meereen just in time to set sail with Dany and her army. Winds of Winter - 6x10.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

A fat man, who calls himself a coward, running through the snow getting tired and trying to hide seems completely plausible to me. As does a kid who was a prisoner of a psychopath and undoubtedly scared ****less not taking a moment to realize he should zig zag when said psychopath was trying to kill him.

You mean humans make mistakes and do illogical things under stress?

What a crazy thought. Also thus notion towards "appealing towards the smart people in the audience" is incredibly silly based on what aspects of the show people are focusing on.

 

[Neutrinos]

A fat man, who calls himself a coward, running through the snow getting tired and trying to hide seems completely plausible to me. As does a kid who was a prisoner of a psychopath and undoubtedly scared ****less not taking a moment to realize he should zig zag when said psychopath was trying to kill him.

I think an argument could be made that Rickon would run straight towards Jon in that situation

 

[Kurtz]

That's exactly the opposite of what I argued. I argued for appealing to the smarter members of the audience, the ones who know that running in a straight line away from the shooter makes you a much easier target to hit.



It was already made worse by the cliches of him quickly getting up, wasting 10 seconds by looking around, then scrambling to a hiding spot in plain sight. If he had the energy to get up that quickly and scramble behind a rock, he had energy to keep running after his friends, who were only 100 feet in front of him. Having some kind of problem would've helped to justify why he didn't do that. You shouldn't fixate on the ankle injury idea because that was just thrown out as an example of one of many things that might've better justified his choices.



He wasn't that tired, cold or out of shape. As I just pointed out, he got up quickly and scrambled behind a rock. Nothing was really stopping him from continuing to run after his friends. If they'd shown him exhausted and barely able to stand or make it much further, that would've been just as good as an injury, but that's not what they showed.

You don't understand - appealing to the smarter or the median members of the audience was to play out the scene as they had done. Having Rickon run in zigzags in full view of the army, something no human being in history, let alone a child, would ever think to do to evade immediate pursuit would indeed be appealing only to the simple-minded folk.

In addition to being absolutely silly and implausible, it would also be ineffective, as an angered Bolton would just call for an archer volley to end the game.

"He wasn't that tired, cold, or out of shape"

He's grossly overweight, and running/marching for hours. And in addition to it being freezing north of the wall, you had the compounded deep freeze that precedes the White Walker advance.

These are such insane things to attempt to argue, truly...

 

[Blender]

My feeling on Ramsey and that shot from that range was a great shot on a fixed target with a long bow ,a moving target was an incredible shot,and center mass. That was an amazing shot and very difficult even for a skilled archer like Ramsey.

My thoughts exactly, hitting a moving target with precision from that range was an incredible shot. Had he missed he would have unleashed a volley from his archers instead.

 

[Neutrinos]

Since so many of you seem to enjoy them, here are a couple more nitpicks for your pleasure:

When Jaime and Brienne are about to get into the boat for the first time, Brienne turns her back to Jaime while pushing the boat into the river. With Jaime having his hands cuffed in the front, he could've easily wrapped them around her throat and choked her to death

When Jaime and Brienne are fighting on the bridge, there was nothing stopping him from jumping into the water and escaping. And again, when confronted moments later by Locke and his men, Jaime opts not to take his chances with the current. Seems like an odd decision given he's facing certain death if he's returned to Rob Stark

 

[Osprey]

You mean humans make mistakes and do illogical things under stress?

What a crazy thought. Also thus notion towards "appealing towards the smart people in the audience" is incredibly silly based on what aspects of the show people are focusing on.

There you go again, ridiculing people's arguments, but stopping short of actually making a counter argument that could be challenged and require you to defend.

Since so many of you seem to enjoy them, here are a couple more nitpicks for your pleasure:

It takes courage to offer up an argument for potential criticism and ridicule. I respect that.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

The one timeline thing that always trips me out is how Varys manages to go to Dorne, speaks with the Queen of Thorns and the sand snakes, and then later manages to get back to Meereen just in time to set sail with Dany and her army. Winds of Winter - 6x10.

They only set sail BECAUSE Varys got to Mereen after visiting the Queen of Thorns and the Sand Snakes

I mean come on...

Since so many of you seem to enjoy them, here are a couple more nitpicks for your pleasure:

When Jaime and Brienne are about to get into the boat for the first time, Brienne turns her back to Jaime while pushing the boat into the river. With Jaime having his hands cuffed in the front, he could've easily wrapped them around her throat and choked her to death

When Jaime and Brienne are fighting on the bridge, there was nothing stopping him from jumping into the water and escaping. And again, when confronted moments later by Locke and his men, Jaime opts not to take his chances with the current. Seems like an odd decision given he's facing certain death if he's returned to Rob Stark

If Jaime attacks Brienne she would either overpower him easily or just you know...use your sword to stab him

As for the River, if Jaime did manage not to drown with his hands still bound in iron they could just travel down stream to capture him. Brienne even mocks his attempt to escape down river

 

[Dale Gribble]

They only set sail BECAUSE Varys got to Mereen after visiting the Queen of Thorns and the Sand Snakes

I mean come on...

I understand they could have waited for him, it was how quickly it all happened that I take issue with. It took Bran how many months to get back to the wall ? It took Arya how long to get to Winterfell after meeting Hot Pie ? etc.

Also, why would they even have to wait for him ? He's in Dorne, which means he's in Westros. Why not just go to Dragonstone from there ?

 

[MadDevil]

I understand they could have waited for him, it was how quickly it all happened that I take issue with. It took Bran how many months to get back to the wall ? It took Arya how long to get to Winterfell after meeting Hot Pie ? etc.

Also, why would they even have to wait for him ? He's in Dorne, which means he's in Westros. Why not just go to Dragonstone from there ?

The short answer here is that it's difficult to depict accurate travel distances and times in this show, so they kind of just don't bother.