TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part IX -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[WhiskeySeven*]

My problem is this: If Arya can really shape shift and act enough like Walder Frey to fool his whole family... then her character is simply too powerful and the writers have to use a Deus Exit Machina (and yes, the word "exit" there is not a typo) to get out of it.

In short, Arya could jump in Littlefingers teleporter and end the entire war in a matter of weeks. Look at just how easily she killed the Freys. Well... she can now do that to whoever she wants. She could wipe out the entire Lannister family by lunch time. But she just... doesn't.
Why? Who knows. Classic deus exit machina. They made a character too powerful and now the writers just have to sort of ignore her.

Does it ruin the show and keep me up at night? No. But it is bad writing and interrupts my willing suspension of disbelief. It wouldn't have been hard to create size/height limitations to her powers, making her a more believable "super hero".

A lot of the show is bad writing and fan/star service.

It's too big and too lumbering to be anything else. I'm just gonna watch it so I can be done with it but I haven't particularly enjoyed the show since ~s4. It has too many flaws and is too obvious. They should've stuck with the intrigue and scheming and cleverness with hints and accents of magic - that's what made the show good.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Lol, you JUST said you missed the episode

Im starting to realize im being ****ed with

Can you be anymore disingenuous? lol

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Can you be anymore disingenuous? lol

Im getting a headache trying to figure out what you are doing

So you missed the scenes then argue against scenes you didnt see and now say they dont exist cause you didnt watch them?

Yes, yes you can! lol

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Not even the same episode so who knows how many episodes you have missed

So you are claiming what characters believe as being the gospel?

If the Lord of Light didn't grant people temporary powers of Resurrection then they wouldn't be needed at all. As soon as the guy fell he would get up again.

Wouldn't even need Priests.

Now if you could look up that scene where she resurrects Snow and show how it took nothing out of her to do it, then your argument gains much validity.

 

[peate]

Last night I saw Daenerys burn down the Dothraki temple and all the dudes in it, then she emerges from the flaming building in all her naked glory. Good episode.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

So you are claiming what characters believe as being the gospel?

If the Lord of Light didn't grant people temporary powers of Resurrection then they wouldn't be needed at all. As soon as the guy fell he would get up again.

Wouldn't even need Priests.

Now if you could look up that scene where she resurrects Snow and show how it took nothing out of her to do it, then your argument gains much validity.

I think, either:

1) She had enough power left over from the burning of Shireen. Kings blood and they burned her alive. That’s gotta be worth more than melting snow.

2) The Lord of Light needed Jon Snow alive to complete his prophecy, so he just did it. Who knows how this stuff works.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Oh man, the melting snow, haha. I'm in the middle of my 3rd re-watch and just finished that episode. Talk about a crappy payoff for sacrificing your child. I also like how Mel just says eff it and bails. Stannis couldn't just put a shadow baby in Mel each week and take out every leader standing in his way? Talk about a double reward there. "Sorry Selyse, Ramsey is now in control of Winterfell, and I'm in need of another son. Please excuse me for 15 minutes."

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't understand how we can debate whether or not the Lord of Light gave powers to people when we have no idea if there is a Lord of Light to give powers to people.

The simplest explanation is there is magic that exists in the world and people come up with explanations for them. The Lord of Light is one unfounded explanation.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don't understand how we can debate whether or not the Lord of Light gave powers to people when we have no idea if there is a Lord of Light to give powers to people.

The simplest explanation is there is magic that exists in the world and people come up with explanations for them. The Lord of Light is one unfounded explanation.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

So you are claiming what characters believe as being the gospel?

If the Lord of Light didn't grant people temporary powers of Resurrection then they wouldn't be needed at all. As soon as the guy fell he would get up again.

Wouldn't even need Priests.

Now if you could look up that scene where she resurrects Snow and show how it took nothing out of her to do it, then your argument gains much validity.

So now verbal confirmation by the people who perform the act is not enough

bahaha this is great. Yeah im sure Thoros has the power to bring people back to life but for no reason tells people its the Lord of Light and says that because that is better than telling people you can raise the dead when you in fact can. Thoros whispers into his deads friend ear asking for the Lord of Light to bring him back, Thoros says himself he has no power and that the Lord of Light does it and yet you still believe he actually has powers. Melisandre and Thoros resurrecting Jon and Beric arent even done remotely the same way, hence it isn't their magical power they randomly got without ever learning how to do it, it is the Lord of Light doing it when its priest asked because we are to presume that all of the Lord of Lights chosen ones (Stannis, Jon, Dany) were needed to be alive because they directly contribute to some end game (Prince that was promised), well thats my theory anyway, I dont really believe Thoros could have the Lord of Light resurrect the archer or any of his other friends

Did the Lord of Light give the Hound temporary magic powers to see visions in the flame despite the fact he hates religion? Or did the Lord of Light make the vision in the fire for the Hound to see?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You aren't proving a specific Lord of Light but the existence of magic...

 

[ThePhoenixx]

So now verbal confirmation by the people who perform the act is not enough

bahaha this is great. Yeah im sure Thoros has the power to bring people back to life but for no reason tells people its the Lord of Light and says that because that is better than telling people you can raise the dead when you in fact can. Thoros whispers into his deads friend ear asking for the Lord of Light to bring him back, Thoros says himself he has no power and that the Lord of Light does it and yet you still believe he actually has powers. Melisandre and Thoros resurrecting Jon and Beric arent even done remotely the same way, hence it isn't their magical power they randomly got without ever learning how to do it, it is the Lord of Light doing it when its priest asked because we are to presume that all of the Lord of Lights chosen ones (Stannis, Jon, Dany) were needed to be alive because they directly contribute to some end game (Prince that was promised), well thats my theory anyway, I dont really believe Thoros could have the Lord of Light resurrect the archer or any of his other friends

Did the Lord of Light give the Hound temporary magic powers to see visions in the flame despite the fact he hates religion? Or did the Lord of Light make the vision in the fire for the Hound to see?

That is how Priests work. They have no innate magical powers like Wizards. They let their Gods' power flow through them. That is how their spells are cast. Their God grants them that power. That's why it takes something out of them. It's not easy on a person to have a Gods power flow through them.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Not even the same episode so who knows how many episodes you have missed

Uh, yep, saw those episodes.

No where in these episodes did the writers confirm or deny the existence of the Lord of Light. Just because these characters believe they got their powers from the LOL, doesn’t make it reality.

If this is your proof, um.... try harder.

It’s well known that the existence of these gods is ambiguous, how you are trying to suggest otherwise has gotten silly. The very man who wrote the novels flat out said so, and he kind of knows what he’s talking about.

 

[StrangeVision]

It's a parlor trick, it's all magic.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

That is how Priests work. They have no innate magical powers like Wizards. They let their Gods' power flow through them. That is how their spells are cast. Their God grants them that power. That's why it takes something out of them. It's not easy on a person to have a Gods power flow through them.

So then you an agreement with me, I knew you would come around

Uh, yep, saw those episodes.

No where in these episodes did the writers confirm or deny the existence of the Lord of Light. Just because these characters believe they got their powers from the LOL, doesn’t make it reality.

If this is your proof, um.... try harder.

It’s well known that the existence of these gods is ambiguous, how you are trying to suggest otherwise has gotten silly. The very man who wrote the novels flat out said so, and he kind of knows what he’s talking about.

You have lost it, your arguments have been so awful you are now arguing something no one in this threat has said (the Lord of Light not existing)

Well done, im very interested what random thing you will comment next but I might have to wait till you have watched all the episodes you missed

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I said he doesn't exist. Or at least you can't definitively say so.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

So then you an agreement with me, I knew you would come around

What are you talking about? Now you try to misrepresent me?

You said they have no powers, that the God just does it. That is not true. The God gives them the power to do it. That's no different for the sake of this argument than the energy in the natural world that gives wizards their power to cast spells.

You keep changing your goal posts.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

What are you talking about? Now you try to misrepresent me?

You said they have no powers, that the God just does it. That is not true. The God gives them the power to do it. That's no different for the sake of this argument than the energy in the natural world that gives wizards their power to cast spells.

You keep changing your goal posts.

...I said the priests have no power, you responded by saying the priests have no power. That is the same thing

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You have lost it, your arguments have been so awful you are now arguing something no one in this threat has said (the Lord of Light not existing)

Well done, im very interested what random thing you will comment next but I might have to wait till you have watched all the episodes you missed

You can’t follow an argument very well, so somehow that’s my fault?

Let me guess, someone hacked your account and typed this under your username... right?

First of all the Lord of Light doesnt give anyone powers

I asked you to specifically show me the episode where it’s revealed as fact the LOL doesn’t grant anyone powers... and you posted some clips where characters stated that they believe they got their powers from the LOL, directly contradicting yourself.

Talk about bizarre as hell.

Do you even know half the things you are typing?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

...I said the priests have no power, you responded by saying the priests have no power. That is the same thing

Then by your definition Wizards have no magical power. No one has any magical power. It's all just made up stuff that just kind of happens just cause.
Their power comes from the ability to channel energy.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

You can’t follow an argument very well, so somehow that’s my fault?

Let me guess, someone hacked your account and typed this under your username... right?



I asked you to specifically show me the episode where it’s revealed as fact the LOL doesn’t grant anyone powers... and you posted some clips where characters stated that they believe they got their powers from the LOL, directly contradicting yourself.

Talk about bizarre as hell.

Do you even know half the things you are typing?

I directly posted a video where the character in question, thats Thoros of Myr, he is a red priest in Westeros (the continent most of the show takes place on), says "It is the Lord of Light who brings you back, im just the lucky drunk who says the words" and also in the other clip says "I have no power". If plugging your ears and closing your eyes has worked for winning your past arguments I can see why you think it could work again. Continue to change your argument yet again and say things didnt happen that they did. Perhaps you should sit down and actually watch the show for once

Then by your definition Wizards have no magical power. No one has any magical power. It's all just made up stuff that just kind of happens just cause.
Their power comes from the ability to channel energy.

Off the top of my head I dont know what wizards you refer too, the sorcerer with Varys? We arent really given any information on them so I cant say

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I directly posted a video where the character in question, thats Thoros of Myr, he is a red priest in Westeros (the continent most of the show takes place on), says "It is the Lord of Light who brings you back, im just the lucky drunk who says the words" and also in the other clip says "I have no power". If plugging your ears and closing your eyes has worked for winning your past arguments I can see why you think it could work again. Continue to change your argument yet again and say things didnt happen that they did. Perhaps you should sit down and actually watch the show for once



Off the top of my head I dont know what wizards you refer too, the sorcerer with Varys? We arent really given any information on them so I cant say

You are being quite disingenuous, but that’s not surprising as that has been your act throughout this conversation.

Thoros says:

“I ask the lord for his favor and he responds as he will”

So he believes the LOL grants him powers at his own will, not Thoros’ will.

However, these clips still aren’t proving any absolutes like you are stating. The gods and where the powers in this realm come from are all ambiguous on purpose.

Just because you have a theory, it doesn’t make it a fact. Saying the LOL doesn’t grant people powers is simply not true. We have no idea. Just like we have no idea if the Many Faces god exists and grants his followers powers.

All we know for sure is that there is some kind of magic in this realm, and some characters can tap into it... maybe followers of the LOL, maybe followers of the Many Faces god... the entire point is none of us know for sure because it has never been revealed to us, despite you pretending to know more than the writer of the books.

Well, the readers are certainly free to wonder about the validity of these religions, the truth of these religions, and the teachings of these religions. I'm a little leery of the word "true" — whether any of these religions are more true than others. I mean, look at the analogue of our real world. We have many religions too. Are some of them more true than others? I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. So the relation between the religions and the various magics that some people have here is something that the reader can try to puzzle out
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5822939/geo...never-meet-any-gods-in-a-song-of-ice-and-fire

 

[glovesave_35]

We have rabbit trailed away from the original debate here, which was about whether Arya and the faceless men can trick or otherwise get others to believe that their physical traits have changed beyond just the face.

The whole thing seems silly to bother discussing to all but one of us here. The point of bringing up the resurrections was to show that otherwise "impossible" or fantastical things can happen. Who or how that happens is moot because dead people have been brought back by hook or by crook. And thus most of us have no problem believing that the faceless men can appear wholly different to others if they want to.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

You are being quite disingenuous, but that’s not surprising as that has been your act throughout this conversation.

Thoros says:

“I ask the lord for his favor and he responds as he will”

So he believes the LOL grants him powers at his own will, not Thoros’ will.

However, these clips still aren’t proving any absolutes like you are stating. The gods and where the powers in this realm come from are all ambiguous on purpose.

Just because you have a theory, it doesn’t make it a fact. Saying the LOL doesn’t grant people powers is simply not true. We have no idea. Just like we have no idea if the Many Faces god exists and grants his followers powers.

All we know for sure is that there is some kind of magic in this realm, and some characters can tap into it... maybe followers of the LOL, maybe followers of the Many Faces god... the entire point is none of us know for sure because it has never been revealed to us, despite you pretending to know more than the writer of the books.

Exactly! He asks the Lord of Light and the Lord of Light does it, its not Thoros' will!

Sorry that direct quotes from the characters involved counter your argument but I admire you saying that it doesnt matter what any one says and call what characters tell us as a theory, quite entertaining

 

[Blender]

Exactly! He asks the Lord of Light and the Lord of Light does it, its not Thoros' will!

Sorry that direct quotes from the characters involved counter your argument but I admire you saying that it doesnt matter what any one says and call what characters tell us as a theory, quite entertaining

That's an argument from personal experience and from personal incredulity, which are logical fallacies. Thoros not being able to explain magic and attributing it to a god is not proof of that god's existence.