TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part IX -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Siamese Dream]

I'm not at all a fashion person and I don't suppose anyone else here is either, but this video was interesting to hear what experts think of some of the costumes that were also critiqued by the fans, I was surprised the white Daenerys dress from the Beyond the Wall episode didn't make it since it seemed like a lot of people hated that one too.



Is it a coincidence that all but one of them are from season 5 onwards?

 

[Scotianhab]

Yeah. When we first saw Jaqen H'ghar all he changed was his face but his voice and physique stayed the same. Now its like they can become anyone. Arya can put on Ned or Littlefingers face and its like they never died

Littlefingers yes, Ned’s not so much unless she stole his head off the spike lol. I do get your point though.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Littlefingers yes, Ned’s not so much unless she stole his head off the spike lol. I do get your point though.

I assumed his entire body was returned to the Starks, they dont say specifically though

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah. When we first saw Jaqen H'ghar all he changed was his face but his voice and physique stayed the same. Now its like they can become anyone. Arya can put on Ned or Littlefingers face and its like they never died

That whole deal is the only thing about the show that confuses me and we don’t get much of an explanation. I just assume it’s some kind of Scooby Doo magic or something and don’t think too hard about.

If we have dragons, White Walkers, people coming back from the dead, shadow babies being born and assassinating kings, I can go along with some old school Scooby Doo tricks.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

That whole deal is the only thing about the show that confuses me and we don’t get much of an explanation. I just assume it’s some kind of Scooby Doo magic or something and don’t think too hard about.

If we have dragons, White Walkers, people coming back from the dead, shadow babies being born and assassinating kings, I can go along with some old school Scooby Doo tricks.

They are illusionists.

 

[Blender]

That whole deal is the only thing about the show that confuses me and we don’t get much of an explanation. I just assume it’s some kind of Scooby Doo magic or something and don’t think too hard about.

If we have dragons, White Walkers, people coming back from the dead, shadow babies being born and assassinating kings, I can go along with some old school Scooby Doo tricks.

Do the faceless men appearing as a different size person violate a rule of the faceless men that is established in canon? If not, I don't care that it happens.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They are illusionists.

Works for me.

If a dragon lady can’t be burned by fire, why can’t a little girl look taller and a little older... and manlier?

 

[matt trick]

Well that was awesome!

Wrong thread, Hertl tied it up with 0.1 seconds remaining

 

[Siamese Dream]

Works for me.

If a dragon lady can’t be burned by fire, why can’t a little girl look taller and a little older... and manlier?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I know the point you are trying to make but...

Illusionists are not Wizards.

 

[silverfish]

yer a wizerd, arry

 

[NyQuil]

I know the point you are trying to make but...

Illusionists are not Wizards.

Sure they are.

What, are we applying D&D specialty school rules now?

Wizards, mages, illusionists, prestidigitators, magicians, witches, sorcerers, it's all the same thing.

A bunch of geeks came up with labels and rules to differentiate them but who cares.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Faceless men are a D-plot in the story anyway and there are little to no established rules about them so...

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Sure they are.

What, are we applying D&D specialty school rules now?

Wizards, mages, illusionists, prestidigitators, magicians, witches, sorcerers, it's all the same thing.

A bunch of geeks came up with labels and rules to differentiate them but who cares.

If you are going to play the game it seems illogical to ignore the history. Illusionists do not change reality. They cannot affect the physical world as wizards can. All they can do is blur perception.

Arya isn't really that big, it just appears that way to the victim. She may have used a combination of physical (high shoes, shoulder pads, etc.) and some illusionist perception (mind) powers.

Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

 

[NyQuil]

If you are going to play the game it seems illogical to ignore the history. Illusionists do not change reality. They cannot affect the physical world as wizards can. All they can do is blur perception.

Arya isn't really that big, it just appears that way to the victim. She may have used a combination of physical (high shoes, shoulder pads, etc.) and some illusionist perception (mind) powers.

Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

It's not tremendously clear one way or the other.

The only real reference I can find is this statement in the Wiki:

"Though they themselves cannot tell the difference, sensing only their own face and features." which seems to imply that it is indeed illusionary.

I don't know what would happen if someone took a swing at Arya's face pretending to be the Mountain, or if that's even possible for her to imitate someone with such a distinct body type.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

It's not tremendously clear one way or the other.

The only real reference I can find is this statement in the Wiki:

"Though they themselves cannot tell the difference, sensing only their own face and features." which seems to imply that it is indeed illusionary.

I don't know what would happen if someone took a swing at Arya's face pretending to be the Mountain, or if that's even possible for her to imitate someone with such a distinct body type.

Ya. That's a good question. I'm sure there must be limitations.

I'm betting they use the faces of dead people because it makes their illusion easier. It must take a great deal of concentration and energy to achieve such an illusion. That's why I think they probably use other props as well like the shoes, etc.

If they didn't need to I'm sure they wouldn't use the faces. Backs up the limitations argument. Perhaps if one becomes very powerful then one wouldn't need the faces anymore?

It must be tiring to do it for an extended period of time.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Faceless men are a D-plot in the story anyway and there are little to no established rules about them so...

Because sloppy writing can open up a Pandoras box of whys and hows, regardless of other far fetched components of the story

Like how did Jaqen get captured in Kings Landing anyway? Why was he even in Kings Landing? Someone hired him to go to Westeros? Maybe he was actually Ilyn Payne and was sent from Braavos to kill Ned and thats why we never seen Ilyn again! We dont have to have everything explained but when you show us how incredibly powerful they are it makes other parts not make any sense

Why didn't Arya take Meryn Trant's face and go back to Kings Landing as him? Easily kill Cersei then. At least with Arys 3 death wishes you can stretch to why she never named Tywin, she hated the tickler and was unsure about Jaqan, then she needed Lorch to die so she wouldnt be caught and by then Tywin had left so she wanted to escape with her friends

Without rules or reasons its just Dues Ex Machina stuff

 

[Neutrinos]

Because sloppy writing can open up a Pandoras box of whys and hows, regardless of other far fetched components of the story

Like how did Jaqen get captured in Kings Landing anyway? Why was he even in Kings Landing? Someone hired him to go to Westeros? Maybe he was actually Ilyn Payne and was sent from Braavos to kill Ned and thats why we never seen Ilyn again! We dont have to have everything explained but when you show us how incredibly powerful they are it makes other parts not make any sense

Why didn't Arya take Meryn Trant's face and go back to Kings Landing as him? Easily kill Cersei then. At least with Arys 3 death wishes you can stretch to why she never named Tywin, she hated the tickler and was unsure about Jaqan, then she needed Lorch to die so she wouldnt be caught and by then Tywin had left so she wanted to escape with her friends

Without rules or reasons its just Dues Ex Machina stuff

I would think, if anyone, he was Syrio Forel

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I would think, if anyone, he was Syrio Forel

I was being facetious but I hope GRRM wouldn't reduce himself to such fan fiction

 

[Siamese Dream]

Maybe he was actually Ilyn Payne and was sent from Braavos to kill Ned and thats why we never seen Ilyn again!

I know you're joking but I want to point out Ilyn Payne does show up again in the Blackwater episode when Cersei has all the women in the castle

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I know you're joking but I want to point out Ilyn Payne does show up again in the Blackwater episode when Cersei has all the women in the castle

You're right, I know the actor had cancer, i believe, and was written out but I didnt think about when

 

[glovesave_35]

The Faceless Men worship the Many Faced god. If you believe that the demon baby from the red witch was "real" and not an illusion then there isn't really a good reason we should believe that the Faceless Men are illusionists. Their god could be giving them the ability to physically alter their appearance or play a mind trick. At that point the difference is pointless to debate IMO.

 

[Jumptheshark]

not a spoiler as it does not affect the plot

But Bean let is spell a few weeks ago nearly all the cast got together for an after shoot interview episode that will air 2 weeks after the final episode

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Faceless Men worship the Many Faced god. If you believe that the demon baby from the red witch was "real" and not an illusion then there isn't really a good reason we should believe that the Faceless Men are illusionists. Their god could be giving them the ability to physically alter their appearance or play a mind trick. At that point the difference is pointless to debate IMO.

It says on the GOT WIKI that:

The House of Black and White's public sanctum is also open to any who are in pain and seek death: they are given a drink of water from a posioned cistern, which grants them a gentle and painless death. In return the Faceless Men collect their corpses to use their faces as disguises (by using their magical shapeshifting abilities with them)

Many-Faced God

So they have magical shapeshifting powers.

 

[Blender]

Because sloppy writing can open up a Pandoras box of whys and hows, regardless of other far fetched components of the story

Like how did Jaqen get captured in Kings Landing anyway? Why was he even in Kings Landing? Someone hired him to go to Westeros? Maybe he was actually Ilyn Payne and was sent from Braavos to kill Ned and thats why we never seen Ilyn again! We dont have to have everything explained but when you show us how incredibly powerful they are it makes other parts not make any sense

Why didn't Arya take Meryn Trant's face and go back to Kings Landing as him? Easily kill Cersei then. At least with Arys 3 death wishes you can stretch to why she never named Tywin, she hated the tickler and was unsure about Jaqan, then she needed Lorch to die so she wouldnt be caught and by then Tywin had left so she wanted to escape with her friends

Without rules or reasons its just Dues Ex Machina stuff

Which rule does the faceless men changing their height/weight violate? This is just nitpicking until it's shown that they had no such ability but then it was violated.