Post-Game Talk: | Game # IIX | Pens loss | The one were we lost to a bunch of "who?'s"

[HandshakeLine]

What, you expect the coach to coach his way out of this somehow?

That’s not why we pay him the money. We pay him the money so dipshit middle managers have someone to idolize on message boards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What, you expect the coach to coach his way out of this somehow?

That’s not why we pay him the money. We pay him the money so dipshit middle managers have someone to idolize on message boards.

Yeah but what could they do. You just CAN'T fire the guy. Remember that one time this team made a bad coaching hire and it briefly didn't work out and they ended up winning a Cup anyway a short time later? That was terrible and is definitely guaranteed to only ever happen again if they try anything. Don't try anything. Trying things is scary.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah but what could they do. You just CAN'T fire the guy. Remember that one time this team made a bad coaching hire and it briefly didn't work out and they ended up winning a Cup anyway a short time later? That was terrible and is definitely guaranteed to only ever happen again if they try anything. Don't try anything. Trying things is scary.

I think another pitfall of just keeping the same coach forever is you can never test whether the struggles are due to a flawed roster or due to a coach's message going stale. The benefit of firing coaches is you get to see how the roster performs under two different voices. If the same flaws remain, you know it's the roster and you adjust. But how do you adjust the roster if you're not even sure it's the roster that's the main issue?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think another pitfall of just keeping the same coach forever is you can never test whether the struggles are due to a flawed roster or due to a coach's message going stale. The benefit of firing coaches is you get to see how the roster performs under two different voices. If the same flaws remain, you know it's the roster and you adjust. But how do you adjust the roster if you're not even sure it's the roster that's the main issue?

Absolutely. It's one of the many reasons it's just how things are done. Armchair bench managers can whinge about it all they want. It happens for good reason 95% of the time.

It's impossible now, of course. But Sullivan at least needs his bench shook if this is how things continue. Again.

Perhaps if a HC needs his staff forcibly reorganized twice in his tenure he's not actually as infallible as people think.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The coach can never fail, only be failed.

 

[dogthateats]

The coach can never fail, only be failed.

This is so true and something that I teach all of my players

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is so true and something that I teach all of my players

Lesson two, we must seize the means of production of orange slices and capri suns.

 

[Empoleon8771]

These past 3 games just showed how vitally important Guentzel is to this offense. I think Guentzel is just as important to the top line succeeding as Crosby is at this point, arguably even more important.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

When even Sid looks this unengaged you have to wonder if old Sully boy really still has the room. Mike Johnston probably having flashbacks watching that game last night.

 

[SomeDude]

When even Sid looks this unengaged you have to wonder if old Sully boy really still has the room. Mike Johnston probably having flashbacks watching that game last night.

If I had a dollar for every time Crosby has been accused of being disinterested over a 3 game period where he doesn't dominate, I'd have my own Somedude Trustfund.

 

[HandshakeLine]

These past 3 games just showed how vitally important Guentzel is to this offense. I think Guentzel is just as important to the top line succeeding as Crosby is at this point, arguably even more important.

Yeah, it’s really the problem that without Jake there’s no actual top 6 offensive talent on the wings here. Ricky Raks and Rust and Zuck are all complimentary pieces that are fine in the top 6 but aren’t talented enough to be the drivers of production.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In a lot of ways, I wish Sullivan would just let them run and gun and don't even pretend to play defense. Because at least then it would be entertaining.

Instead we're getting nothing offensively, but we also don't stick to any sort of defensive game either. So the result is the same sloppy game but with zero of the entertainment value that run and gun teams provide.

The issue with that is pretty much the issue league-wide when it comes to coaching. Playing a boring style is a safe style. It means job security. GMs and owners are gonna care if their fans are entertained if the team is losing a ton of games 7-6. They'll be far more happy if the team's winning games 1-0 playing the most boring, dogshit, muddy up the middle of the ice style they can think of.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

If I had a dollar for every time Crosby has been accused of being disinterested over a 3 game period where he doesn't dominate, I'd have my own Somedude Trustfund.

You’d be a rich man and I’d be your trophy husband.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Absolutely. It's one of the many reasons it's just how things are done. Armchair bench managers can whinge about it all they want. It happens for good reason 95% of the time.

It's impossible now, of course. But Sullivan at least needs his bench shook if this is how things continue. Again.

Perhaps if a HC needs his staff forcibly reorganized twice in his tenure he's not actually as infallible as people think.

Side tangent, but I also don't like how every personnel decision (ie. trade, free agent signing, etc.) comes with the question "is he a Sullivan type player?". IMO, rosters shouldn't be built around the coach, especially when that roster hasn't gotten out of the first round since 2018.

Reminds me way too much of organizations who draft for need rather than BPA and end up with inferior players just because they were a better fit for their immediate needs even though they weren't anywhere as good as some of the players available at that spot who just happened to play a position that wasn't an immediate "need".

Using the Pens in this analogy, they'd be the team that passes on drafting Connor Bedard because he's a center and we've already got center depth so they opt for a defensive minded middle six winger instead because he fits Sullivan's system better.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

These past 3 games just showed how vitally important Guentzel is to this offense. I think Guentzel is just as important to the top line succeeding as Crosby is at this point, arguably even more important.

I for sure think Crosby is better than THIS but man... it sure is a stark contrast.

Seeing what Guentzel does is my by-far biggest motivator for yearning for another legit top six player. I know people throw this idea that the team has Rust and Rakell (and Zucker... hilarious) as "terrific top six players" back in my face but compared to a guy like Jake the comparison seems dishonest, know what I mean?

 

[Gurglesons]

I for sure think Crosby is better than THIS but man... it sure is a stark contrast.

Seeing what Guentzel does is my by-far biggest motivator for yearning for another legit top six player. I know people throw this idea that the team has Rust and Rakell (and Zucker... hilarious) as "terrific top six players" back in my face but compared to a guy like the Jake the comparison seems dishonest, know what I mean?

What team has multiple Jakes at wing?

Boston is the only one that comes to mind.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, it’s really the problem that without Jake there’s no actual top 6 offensive talent on the wings here. Ricky Raks and Rust and Zuck are all complimentary pieces that are fine in the top 6 but aren’t talented enough to be the drivers of production.

I agree with you that those guys are complementary pieces, but a Rakell-Crosby-Rust line should still be a great top line. I think that top line being ineffective reflects more on what 35 year old Crosby is at this point than anything else.

Put Rakell and Rust with a 27 year old Crosby and Crosby easily wins the scoring title.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Side tangent, but I also don't like how every personnel decision (ie. trade, free agent signing, etc.) comes with the question "is he a Sullivan type player?". IMO, rosters shouldn't be built around the coach, especially when that roster hasn't gotten out of the first round since 2018.

Reminds me way too much of organizations who draft for need rather than BPA and end up with inferior players just because they were a better fit for their immediate needs even though they weren't anywhere as good as some of the players available at that spot who just happened to play a position that wasn't an immediate "need".

Using the Pens in this analogy, they'd be the team that passes on drafting Connor Bedard because he's a center and we've already got center depth so they opt for a defensive minded middle six winger instead because he fits Sullivan's system better.

Ah yes. The Ray Shero/Pittsburgh Steelers philosophy.

And they've done so well in recent years.

What team has multiple Jakes at wing?

Boston is the only one that comes to mind.

There he is!

 

[dogthateats]

What team has multiple Jakes at wing?

Boston is the only one that comes to mind.

Ottawa

 

[HandshakeLine]

I agree with you that those guys are complementary pieces, but a Rakell-Crosby-Rust line should still be a great top line. I think that top line being ineffective reflects more on what 35 year old Crosby is at this point than anything else.

Put Rakell and Rust with a 27 year old Crosby and Crosby easily wins the scoring title.

I’m all for trying it Emp, but as you note, Crosby isn’t really able to carry enough of the line consistently to make it as good as it would have been. That’s the breaks with aging stars but again, this is why some of us wanted to cut cap so we could go for someone a little higher end than Rust or Rackell for this very situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ah yes. The Ray Shero/Pittsburgh Steelers philosophy.

And they've done so well in recent years.



There he is!

I mean who wouldn’t want another Jake. It’s just like there are maybe 10 players at that level in the league.

Ottawa

Lol who?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also Rust looks like a guy that got paid big and is fat and happy, now. So far.

One thing I'm loving about Raks is he got paid big too but is still out there flying around every night using every bit of his ability to help.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Maybe they should make Zucker captain, the team spirit has completely disappeared in his absence.

Yes, Glass Zucker as Captain of this sinking ship, he can crow at the boys from the pressbox.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Lesson two, we must seize the means of production of orange slices and capri suns.

Adult Capri Suns... with orange slices.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also Rust looks like a guy that got paid big and is fat and happy, now. So far.

One thing I'm loving about Raks is he got paid big too but is still out there flying around every night using every bit of his ability to help.

Rust has 7 pts in 8 games. Works fine for me