Post-Game Talk: | Game # IIX | Pens loss | The one were we lost to a bunch of "who?'s"

[HandshakeLine]

It’s really special teams that is absolutely slaughtering us.

Feel like we should fire Velluci and get a special teams specialist because Reirden at least has a track record over a decade at making defensemen turn a corner.

Yeah, I don't get refusing to cut losses on Velluci. I get keeping Sullivan around for both the practical (he signed a huge-ass extension!) and as the coaching "face" and the person the owners and player seem to love to present to the media. But Velluci hasn't really done shit here despite being touted as a great developmental coach (and we moved him out of WB/S anyway) and an x's and o's guy. The special teams under his tenure have been abysmal and he's at least partially responsible for that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah, I don't get refusing to cut losses on Velluci. I get keeping Sullivan around for both the practical (he signed a huge-ass extension!) and as the coaching "face" and the person the owners and player seem to love to present to the media. But Velluci hasn't really done shit here despite being touted as a great developmental coach (and we moved him out of WB/S anyway) and an x's and o's guy. The special teams under his tenure have been abysmal and he's at least partially responsible for that.

His job is the PK. Reirden is the PP.
It's been a mixed bag. In year 1 they were 27th. Year 2 they were 3rd. Right now they're 28th.

I can understand them bringing him back with the success last year. 9 PPGA's with 29 times shorthanded though. Dark times. If Blue comes back and they still suck, he needs to make personnel changes.

 

[Zbynek]

Is Jarry good?

Havent been able to watch any of the Western Canada games and we've lost all of em.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Tons of people posting shit here who ghosted the team the first four games where we looked great.

Injuries and overconfidence after we blew teams out of the water the first week. The top power play again has a confidence crisis after looking awesome the first few games. Letang IMO is the biggest driver of indecisions and poor decisions. Just not a good fit there and hasn't been most of his career. Not a lot of options at this point, though.

This is a bad time to have this kind of stuff. We haven't really established our game and habits, and the new guys haven't gelled into a solid structure yet. It can get real negative fast, especially with a guy with Sullivan's personality, if we don't turn this around.

Also, I'm already done with Feisty Jarry. Just put that character right back into the box, it doesn't help him. He was much better when he was cool. His in-ice persona has really changed this year and it doesn't work for him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

His job is the PK. Reirden is the PP.
It's been a mixed bag. In year 1 they were 27th. Year 2 they were 3rd. Right now they're 28th.

I can understand them bringing him back with the success last year. 9 PPGA's with 29 times shorthanded though. Dark times. If Blue comes back and they still suck, he needs to make personnel changes.

And the PK has also been a problem for lengthy stretches over his tenure too. The stats don’t tell half the story with the PK as stats are about as useful a coloring book for blind people in this sport, but we’ve seen the Pk look like hot garbage in the playoffs, this season, and last year. TB being out should not kneecap our penalty kill, that’s a weird way of looking at it IMO.

Again, I think for a team that has as many Pk specialists as ours and the offensive players we do have, our special teams being bad for significant stretches is a real problem.

 

[TNT87]

It feels like months ago that the Pens had a 3-1 lead in Edmonton.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And the PK has also been a problem for lengthy stretches over his tenure too. The stats don’t tell half the story with the PK as stats are about as useful a coloring book for blind people in this sport, but we’ve seen the Pk look like hot garbage in the playoffs, this season, and last year. TB being out should not kneecap our penalty kill, that’s a weird way of looking at it IMO.

Jarry made it look better than it was. He had a outrageous high danger chance save %. That being said, it was leaps and bounds better than now.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but I'm giving the most core stat of all for this topic. Vellucci's job is to reduce the goals against there, so it bears mentioning when discussing if he should still be coaching it. I really didn't like his strategy for most of 2020-21, but he made amends the following year and went with a conventional approach, which worked.

This year from what I'm seeing the Forwards just aren't picking off anything and we're getting no clears. We don't have anyone ragging the puck, killing time.
Dumo got toasted with some backdoor plays as well, and that's just on him.
It doesn't help that there's new personnel with no experience playing with a few of these guys.
We could see that in action in the first game with Arizona, where the middle of the box got totally exposed twice. There was a lack of planning for that.

I don't think Blueger will turn it around by himself, but I think it will be a significant boost. He's got the experience with McGinn from last year and he's a big communicator for the unit.
He's just straight up much better at it than Poehling or whoever he'll replace too.

I'm not really attached to Vellucci but I don't think his replacement would fix everything either. Not much you can do when when players aren't executing the basics you see on all PK schemes.
At some point it just comes down to reads, battle level and hockey IQ. Boyle had so much PK experience and that helped him be pretty reliable, using that long reach.
ZAR was PK'ing better than he ever has for us. We're feeling those losses right now.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Jarry made it look better than it was. He had a outrageous high danger chance save %. That being said, it was leaps and bounds better than now.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but I'm giving the most core stat of all for this topic. Vellucci's job is to reduce the goals against there, so it bears mentioning when discussing if he should still be coaching it. I really didn't like his strategy for most of 2020-21, but he made amends the following year and went with a conventional approach, which worked.

This year from what I'm seeing the Forwards just aren't picking off anything and we're getting no clears. We don't have anyone ragging the puck, killing time.
Dumo got toasted with some backdoor plays as well, and that's just on him.
It doesn't help that there's new personnel with no experience playing with a few of these guys.
We could see that in action in the first game with Arizona, where the middle of the box got totally exposed twice. There was a lack of planning for that.

I don't think Blueger will turn it around by himself, but I think it will be a significant boost. He's got the experience with McGinn from last year and he's a big communicator for the unit.
He's just straight up much better at it than Poehling or whoever he'll replace too.

I'm not really attached to Vellucci but I don't think his replacement would fix everything either. Not much you can do when when players aren't executing the basics you see on all PK schemes.
At some point it just comes down to reads, battle level and hockey IQ. Boyle had so much PK experience and that helped him be pretty reliable, using that long reach.
ZAR was PK'ing better than he ever has for us. We're feeling those losses right now.

I don’t think we’re that far apart. I think the problems are, as you mentioned, buy-in and execution. But if you don’t have the players who can and will execute you need to make changes. And if the team is tuning out the AC in charge of their area, we’ll, sorry but that’s a problem too, for the AC. It’s not fair, but what else are you going to do, if you’re not going to bench the vets who aren’t executing?

I think having actual PK specialists there and a hot goalie has masked the problems before and now we’re getting more unvarnished looks at it and people just seem to default to “but number was good before therefore PK will be good in the future” and I don’t see it happening. The PK only works when everyone is super fresh and there’s no injuries and we’re at an ideal lineup, which means we’re never going to be able to effectively use it in the postseason. Even Vellucci’s more traditional Pk scheme isn’t clicking now.

Again, we keep signing players on the bottom six because of their supposed strengths PKing like McGinn, Kapanen, and Carter so missing one guy shouldn’t torpedo the scheme like it’s seemingly doing.

 

[K Fleur]

This is really unsettling; I really thought we were cup contenders after we beat the Coyotes at home.

 

[wgknestrick]

Many of you hate this, but ZAR is missed on the PK along with Marino. This team is going to be bad (but not bad enough) for a LONG time at this rate.

 

[Pens x]

Would it kill Sully to put a hungry youngin with Geno or Sid?

I’d be interested in seeing what Poulin or Poehling could do up there. Wishful thinking, I know.

Poehling should stay on a L4.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t think we’re that far apart. I think the problems are, as you mentioned, buy-in and execution. But if you don’t have the players who can and will execute you need to make changes. And if the team is tuning out the AC in charge of their area, we’ll, sorry but that’s a problem too, for the AC. It’s not fair, but what else are you going to do, if you’re not going to bench the vets who aren’t executing?

I think having actual PK specialists there and a hot goalie has masked the problems before and now we’re getting more unvarnished looks at it and people just seem to default to “but number was good before therefore PK will be good in the future” and I don’t see it happening. The PK only works when everyone is super fresh and there’s no injuries and we’re at an ideal lineup, which means we’re never going to be able to effectively use it in the postseason. Even Vellucci’s more traditional Pk scheme isn’t clicking now.

I don't question Poehling's compete. He's busting his ass out there, but he's inexperienced. Rutta's very professional too.
We definitely need Blue. Last year he allowed 40% fewer goals against than any other regular relative to usage.

Marino did a pretty good job covering backdoor plays, as did Ruhwedel. JM was our #1 minute eater as well. From what I can see everyone's so focused right now on being glued to their assignments and keeping it simple that no one's predicting anything.

I don't think they're tuning out Vellucci. It's just growing pains as they familiarize themselves with each other.
There's also the matter of McGinn just playing poorly this year and not doing what made him successful last year on the unit.
Jarry's not doing his part either.

He's off his angle here. There's no reason to be...the pass is covered. You expect your goalie to stop this.

I agree that expecting future success after past success is unreliable in this league, but I don't believe in firing someone after he did a pretty good job. Yeah it was bad in the playoffs, but we also had Domingue in net then. That's only a 2 week sample size too.

 

[DearDiary]

Many of you hate this, but ZAR is missed on the PK along with Marino. This team is going to be bad (but not bad enough) for a LONG time at this rate.

Sullivan would throw also out ZAR and Blueger with heavy defensive starts against any line. When you consider Marino gone and Carters decline as well, the team is far worse right now in terms of the PK and ES matchups.

 

[spcastlemagic]

Didn’t stay up last night because I had a bad feeling about this game. It’s hard to win when you’re missing your best player, and I think it’s fair to say Jake is the straw the stirs the drink these days. And that’s concerning… I don’t like my best player being 5’8 and brittle.

 

[Pens x]

Marino is the bell of the ball in New Jersey. Good thing we acquired a guy we can’t even play because of our incompetent GM.

If JR had made the identical trade, dude would have been roasted on this site.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is really unsettling; I really thought we were cup contenders after we beat the Coyotes at home.

I for one didn’t expect much out of this team except a nostalgia tour, but they’re committing the one unforgivable sin: they’re playing boring shit ass hockey.

Hell, Sid’s not even playing a 20 foot game now. And not a peep from the usual people looking for Malkin to make a turnover so they can scream about it on the internet.

Even our hypocrites are boring. This sucks. I want more entertainment if I’m going to waste a beautiful weekend morning with this game.

 

[Icarium]

Rakell was the only one who showed up. Only 4 high danger scoring chance at 5 on 5 against a team on a b2b with several defensemen missing is calamitous.

Maybe they should make Zucker captain, the team spirit has completely disappeared in his absence. Crosby has been a complete ghost in the last 8 periods. Even Sully seemed to realize and played Rakell with Geno a lot in this game.

Too cute on the PP again, Geno moved to the right wall for like 20 seconds and we scored. If only someone could see the obvious...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I didn't even watch the game. Gonna watch the highlights and drink my coffee while going through what is sure to be a hell of a 6 pages of PGT.

-edit- I don't know if it was a trick of the game highlights or what but Rakell looked like he was flying and could've had 3 or 4 goals. Poehling seemed to have a strong game too. Petts and Dumo looked like they struggled, same with Jarry when it comes to being on his angles and handling rebounds. Some really bad decisions with the puck and a lotta unforced turnovers, some leading to great chances for Vancouver. That top line looks totally out of sorts and thrown out of rhythm by Jake's absence.

Oh well. Not too upset I missed it live.

What a difference a week can make. Big drop from "Holy shit, Shades of '16, Sid might be as good as he's ever been. This train's rolling to another Cup appearance."

 

[HandshakeLine]

I’m starting to wonder if Sid getting the top wingmates is about keeping up appearances because he is playing terribly without Jake.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I’m starting to wonder if Sid getting the top wingmates is about keeping up appearances because he is playing terribly without Jake.

I think his whole feng shui is off, tbh. I don't know that any rational person thinks Sid's game just fell off a cliff and he's some random schlub (outside of the obviously disturbed posters), but not having that sorta familiarity to his line/shifts in Jake is f***ing with Sid's head more so than anything else, imo.

It doesn't really matter who plays with Sid. If he's not comfortable with them, his line's not gonna play well or produce. It's been that way forever. Sid's linemates have to be the right linemates as opposed to the best available. Dude doesn't adapt or adjust his game for anybody, so they're either a perfect fit instantly or it's just gonna be a disjointed pairing until it's broken up.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Good thing I fell asleep.... But I gave effort to watch at least, just like they gave effort to win...

F----> 10:00 PM starts when you are up way early in the morning for work.

 

[eXile3]

So Dumos play is falling off as predicted by everyone who watched him last year.

Marino and MM were more important to our transition game than people gave them credit for.

Sid’s stats were being pumped up by Jake.

Fun October so far.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Anyways, I agree with HSL. This era's cooked as far as legitimately competing, so it's all about how entertaining things are from here on out. Adjust your expectations for a team whose foundation consists of about half a dozen 35+ year olds in the sunset of their careers. Just put on a good show, that's all I really care about. If they make the playoffs, they're likely staring down another 1st round exit. If they miss, well, who gives a shit. Finishing last and being a perennial 1st round exit are no different imo; neither team is anywhere close to a Cup, and with the ages, cap situation, and prospect pool, they won't be again for about a decade.

 

[Pens x]

I’m sure Hextall can load up with another over 35 year old at the deadline to push the team past the first round.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

+I also didn't watch this one.