GDT: Game 39: Avs vs Hawks | 7 PM MT | December 29, 2018

[Hasbro]

What happens if the players you’ve targeted, are too expensive, or aren’t available? Or don’t want to sign here?

Then what? Patience again?

That's when you trade.

 

[the_fan]

It really doesn’t matter what the team is.

Landeskog is feeling like it’s disrespectful to completely disregard the rest of the team as if they’re worthless.

He has a legitimate reason to stop answering that question as a captain. You don’t s**t on his teammates by constant asking the same dumb question.

Oh I agree, Landeskog was right to be upset specially as the captain of the team, it's just the truth that Avs are a one line team and everyone knows it, probably even Landy knows it. Of course he wasn't gonna say something like, yes we are a one line team etc...

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

The team was winning as a one line team because the defense was playing above its heads.

Right now they have no one playing like a top pairing D.

 

[Hasbro]

Oh I agree, Landeskog was right to be upset specially as the captain of the team, it's just the truth that Avs are a one line team and everyone knows it, probably even Landy knows it. Of course he wasn't gonna say something like, yes we are a one line team etc...

Can we try Compher-Sodaberg-XXXX as a second line.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's funny to me reading all the posts popping up about Sakic not doing anything this off-season, and how it was a mistake etc. Because I sat there all off-season *****ing about this very thing and was getting ripped by many of the same posters, saying I was wrong we shouldn't waste assets or cap space etc. And how it was smart of Sakic to just stay the course and not mess with team chemistry and so forth.

Well I guess I was right, this team sucks outside of three players. And they can't carry them every single night. Sakic screwed us this year, wasted another year of MacKinnon's prime.

This isn't the right take either and you were absolutely wrong this summer.

We had no idea what kind of team we were at the summer. Half of our roster was still essentially unknown. Between Jost, Compher, Kerfoot, Girard, Andrighetto, Grubauer, hell even Rantanen and Mackinnon were still unknown.

The difference is now we're nearing 40 games into another season and the picture has been painted much more clearly now then it was a few months ago. Mack and Mikko are legit, no questions on that one. Compher is creating quite a lot of hope that he can be a legit Top 9 or even Top 6 forward going forward. Kerfoot is proving that while he's still productive, he's just not a Top 6 guy you want when trying to be a contender or even just a legit playoff team. And Jost is proving to either be in the NHL way to early or is on his way to becoming a major disappointment/bust.

But this past summer, none of those things were known and not making a move has allowed the team to get a much better idea of what we have going forward. We now know for certain we need at least 1 Top 6 forward and probably even need 2. And we know that Andrighetto, Kerfoot, and Jost aren't going to be those players for us any time soon.

The team was winning as a one line team because the defense was playing above its heads.

Right now they have no one playing like a top pairing D.

This is an extremely underrated problem we're experiencing right now as well. The Defense has regressed, and it has regressed hard over the last 10 games. When we were winning, Girard was looking like a legit Top pairing guy. Cole was playing like a Top pairing guy. Barrie was creating all kinds of offense.

Now, Girard has regressed possibly due to being hurt right now. Cole has regressed back to the levels we were expecting from him before the season(Which is to say he's still solid but not dominating the defensive zone like he was before), Barrie has been playing like complete garbage for a while(Though better defensively the last 2 games), and Johnson continues to essentially be a No show on the season.

I'd argue the biggest reasons for our struggles right now is Defense. What was looking like an extremely mobile, fast puck moving group now looks like a sluggish, slow decision making group that lacks confidence at both ends of the ice.

 

[the_fan]

The team was winning as a one line team because the defense was playing above its heads.

Right now they have no one playing like a top pairing D.

The team was winning because the 1st line was putting up tons of point every game they were winning, but they are human after all and it's very difficult to maintain that level of play for 82 games. Also teams already know how to beat the Avs, just limit that line to couple of points which has been happening during this winless streak. And pretty much every game Avs lost this season the top line only scored couple of points. It's no coincidence. I dont think its been a defense issue, the Avs just dont have anyone other than top line to change games, win games and take pressure off the 1st line

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

The team was winning because the 1st line was putting up tons of point every game they were winning, but they are human after all and it's very difficult to maintain that level of play for 82 games. Also teams already know how to beat the Avs, just limit that line to couple of points which has been happening during this winless streak. And pretty much every game Avs lost this season the top line only scored couple of points. It's no coincidence. I dont think its been a defense issue, the Avs just dont have anyone other than top line to change games, win games and take pressure off the 1st line

The top line has been red hot for about 100 games now. It's not that the past ten games other teams have finally figured out they should shut down the top line. Teams have been trying and failing. But suddenly the top line has dried up.

They have almost all the same faces in the bottom three lines as last year. And that was adequate enough to make the playoffs.

Having a better second line would help. But the defense still stinks. Not below average. Not mediocre. Its garbage right now. The top line spends the entire shift in their zone because the D can't stop the other team from cycling or make a pass to save their lives. If the D stops playing like garbage the top line will start putting up inhuman amounts of points.

They need a legit top pairing guy in the worst way. And if Sakic is banking on Makar or Girard being that guy next year it will be a long season...

 

[the_fan]

Can we try Compher-Sodaberg-XXXX as a second line.

At this point it wouldn't hurt I guess to try everything

 

[chet1926]

This isn't the right take either and you were absolutely wrong this summer.

We had no idea what kind of team we were at the summer. Half of our roster was still essentially unknown. Between Jost, Compher, Kerfoot, Girard, Andrighetto, Grubauer, hell even Rantanen and Mackinnon were still unknown.

The difference is now we're nearing 40 games into another season and the picture has been painted much more clearly now then it was a few months ago. Mack and Mikko are legit, no questions on that one. Compher is creating quite a lot of hope that he can be a legit Top 9 or even Top 6 forward going forward. Kerfoot is proving that while he's still productive, he's just not a Top 6 guy you want when trying to be a contender or even just a legit playoff team. And Jost is proving to either be in the NHL way to early or is on his way to becoming a major disappointment/bust.

But this past summer, none of those things were known and not making a move has allowed the team to get a much better idea of what we have going forward. We now know for certain we need at least 1 Top 6 forward and probably even need 2. And we know that Andrighetto, Kerfoot, and Jost aren't going to be those players for us any time soon.





This is an extremely underrated problem we're experiencing right now as well. The Defense has regressed, and it has regressed hard over the last 10 games. When we were winning, Girard was looking like a legit Top pairing guy. Cole was playing like a Top pairing guy. Barrie was creating all kinds of offense.

Now, Girard has regressed possibly due to being hurt right now. Cole has regressed back to the levels we were expecting from him before the season(Which is to say he's still solid but not dominating the defensive zone like he was before), Barrie has been playing like complete garbage for a while(Though better defensively the last 2 games), and Johnson continues to essentially be a No show on the season.

I'd argue the biggest reasons for our struggles right now is Defense. What was looking like an extremely mobile, fast puck moving group now looks like a sluggish, slow decision making group that lacks confidence at both ends of the ice.

No sorry I was right. It was stupid for Sakic to assume everyone of our young guys was going to progress. This never happens. Even if two young guys progressed significantly we were still short of 2/3 quality top 6/9 type players.

It was a very bad miscalculation for Sakic to assume a team that overachieved last season was going to be fine if not better this year with minimal additions.

The goal is always to be better than the year before. Sakic's decisions this off-season didn't give the team this chance.

At some point you have to stop being that team that's always waiting for the future. We have a good base, and two of the top players in the world right now. We should have been gearing up for chasing Nashville/Winnipeg not sitting idle hoping for young guys to maybe get better. If they do get better, great, that should be a bonus and something that makes your team even harder to play against, not the hope you pin the season on.

 

[Metallo]

Can we try Compher-Sodaberg-XXXX as a second line.

Yes.

Ghetto-Mack-Mikko
Landy-Soda-JTC
Nieto-Kerfoot-Calvert
Bourque-Jost-Dries

 

[the_fan]

The top line has been red hot for about 100 games now. It's not that the past ten games other teams have finally figured out they should shut down the top line. Teams have been trying and failing. But suddenly the top line has dried up.

They have almost all the same faces in the bottom three lines as last year. And that was adequate enough to make the playoffs.

Having a better second line would help. But the defense still stinks. Not below average. Not mediocre. Its garbage right now. The top line spends the entire shift in their zone because the D can't stop the other team from cycling or make a pass to save their lives. If the D stops playing like garbage the top line will start putting up inhuman amounts of points.

They need a legit top pairing guy in the worst way. And if Sakic is banking on Makar or Girard being that guy next year it will be a long season...

I agree that defense hasn't been very good, Barrie has been awful, EJ has regressed, showing his age perhaps, but MacKinnon hasn't been the same the last few games, he hasn't been his dominant self lately

 

[EdAVSfan]

That's when you trade.

But that’s what I mean, whether in UFA or trade, what happens if the players you actually want or need are either too expensive or not available?

That’s why I don’t understand this do nothing at all costs mentality.

 

[Avsboy]

I agree with much of what NEB said except about the D. Girard, Zadorov, Barrie and EJ is an above average group. Makar will bump EJ down to #4 and could be top pairing by his second season. Please don’t trade Barrie.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I agree with much of what NEB said except about the D. Girard, Zadorov, Barrie and EJ is an above average group. Makar will bump EJ down to #4 and could be top pairing by his second season. Please don’t trade Barrie.

The group is playing blow their talent level, but definitely not trash.

 

[Hornstar]

Sure a lot of high expectations on makar. Bumping our best D man down, replacing Barrie, instant#1 defender. I'm worried as hell he's handled just like Jost.

 

[Foppa2118]

Varly took about a period to get his reflexes sharpened back up, but he looked strong in this one. Definitely outplayed Grubauer's last three outings so he should get the next start IMO.

Not sure why it took Bednar 20 minutes of hockey to realize breaking up the top line and putting Nieto there in place of Landy was a dumb idea. At least it only took one period.

Landy with a bad penalty at the end there. Looked like he barely grazed him, and Murphy embellished quite a big, but he's got to keep his stick down when hitting. He almost took one the shift before getting a little too carried away in the corner.

Really like the way Graves has looked these last two games. Nothing fancy, just good positioning, good mobility, and some physical defense. Much better than we ever saw from Alt or Warsofksy. Better than Barberio too. Hopefully he keeps it up and stays up with the big squad.

At least they got a point. I thought they played a decent game outside the first period and giving up two cross ice one timer goals. Hopefully they can build on that a little bit.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Varly took about a period to get his reflexes sharpened back up, but he looked strong in this one. Definitely outplayed Grubauer's last three outings so he should get the next start IMO.

Not sure why it took Bednar 20 minutes of hockey to realize breaking up the top line and putting Nieto there in place of Landy was a dumb idea. At least it only took one period.

Landy with a bad penalty at the end there. Looked like he barely grazed him, and Murphy embellished quite a big, but he's got to keep his stick down when hitting. He almost took one the shift before getting a little too carried away in the corner.

Really like the way Graves has looked these last two games. Nothing fancy, just good positioning, good mobility, and some physical defense. Much better than we ever saw from Alt or Warsofksy. Better than Barberio too. Hopefully he keeps it up and stays up with the big squad.

At least they got a point. I thought they played a decent game outside the first period and giving up two cross ice one timer goals. Hopefully they can build on that a little bit.

Kind of how I felt too, actually enjoyed the game for the most part before the end. I actually think they played one of their better team defense games. There was a metric ton of chances not capitalized on by the bottom nine, or at least it felt that way. Compher and Soda really stand out thinking about it.

 

[Foppa2118]

Anybody else notice Landy flip his stick over to righty to win the draw against Toews on his off side? He's gonna end up being the Avs best face-off guy on both sides if he can keep that up.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I agree with much of what NEB said except about the D. Girard, Zadorov, Barrie and EJ is an above average group. Makar will bump EJ down to #4 and could be top pairing by his second season. Please don’t trade Barrie.

Playing at their absolute best all at the same time it would be a decent group.

But EJ hasn't looked like a top pairing guy all season.

Zadorov looks like a solid middle pairing shut down player one game. And a marginal bottom pairing guy the next.

Barrie and Girard even when on their game have times when they'll struggle defensively.

Having all 4 of these guys playing at peak level at the same time they are a solid but flawed top 4.

Makar on the top pairing in two years? If all goes well maybe. But having Makar Girard or Barrie on the ice the entire game will lead to a lot of losses.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Playing at their absolute best all at the same time it would be a decent group.

But EJ hasn't looked like a top pairing guy all season.

Zadorov looks like a solid middle pairing shut down player one game. And a marginal bottom pairing guy the next.

Barrie and Girard even when on their game have times when they'll struggle defensively.

Having all 4 of these guys playing at peak level at the same time they are a solid but flawed top 4.

Makar on the top pairing in two years? If all goes well maybe. But having Makar Girard or Barrie on the ice the entire game will lead to a lot of losses.

I know people are down on Timmins due to his concussion, but Timmins and Meloche are our best shot of replacing what EJ brings on the right side. Timmins may be even more important now than we thought with the way EJ is playing.

Our right side could be Makar, Timmins, Meloche in three years. Who knows, but at least we have something coming.

Also I'm hoping this continues with Graves because he'd make Nemeth f***ing obsolete if he can even maintain what hes given us the last two games. I know NY was high on him at one point the same way we were with Bigras, but Bigras had a lot more of an opportunity before that trade was made IMO. I had no idea Graves hadn't even gotten a game yet.

 

[Foppa2118]

I know people are down on Timmins due to his concussion, but Timmins and Meloche are our best shot of replacing what EJ brings on the right side. Timmins may be even more important now than we thought with the way EJ is playing.

Our right side could be Makar, Timmins, Meloche in three years. Who knows, but at least we have something coming.

Also I'm hoping this continues with Graves because he'd make Nemeth ****ing obsolete if he can even maintain what hes given us the last two games. I know NY was high on him at one point the same way we were with Bigras, but Bigras had a lot more of an opportunity before that trade was made IMO. I had no idea Graves hadn't even gotten a game yet.

I'm not as worried about EJ as some, but Timmins is basically the Avs only hope of replacing him in the role he plays. That's the role of a big mans game in front of the net and in the corners, handling all the physical rigors of what that entails against the best players in the world night in and night out, but still have the mobility and puck skills to jump into the play occasionally and make plays with skill players.

I like Melcohe, and I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not sure he has the all around ability to quite get to top pairing level. Zadorov probably doesn't either and Cole should only play on the top pair in small spurts.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'm not as worried about EJ as some, but Timmins is basically the Avs only hope of replacing him in the role he plays. That's the role of a big mans game in front of the net and in the corners, handling all the physical rigors of what that entails against the best players in the world night in and night out, but still have the mobility and puck skills to jump into the play occasionally and make plays with skill players.

I like Melcohe, and I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not sure he has the all around ability to quite get to top pairing level. Zadorov probably doesn't either and Cole should only play on the top pair in small spurts.

It is more of a defensive role than anything. Since I think our D is going to be a strength by depth in the future.

 

[Foppa2118]

It is more of a defensive role than anything. Since I think our D is going to be a strength by depth in the future.

True, but if you're shutting down the opposing top lines, then you're more than likely going to play with your own top lines in this day and age, so you need to be able to make plays with the puck and read the play of skill players too. I think that's what separates what's needed in EJ's role on the top pairing, versus a similar role of Cole or Zadorov on the second pairing.

 

[CobraAcesS]

True, but if you're shutting down the opposing top lines, then you're more than likely going to play with your own top lines in this day and age, so you need to be able to make plays with the puck and read the play of skill players too. I think that's what separates what's needed in EJ's role on the top pairing, versus a similar role of Cole or Zadorov on the second pairing.

EJ has never been great offensively. So IMO it is not going to be hard to replace that aspect. Strength, size, skating, and defensive intelligence will bring the same thing pretty much. Especially if that player has someone like Girard, Barrie, or Makar with them. Which isn't something EJ had at his best.

 

[Metallo]

I have seen too much babysitting of Girard, let the Condor fly.

With everyone healty I’d like to see:

Cole-EJ
Zad-Barrie
Girard-Nemeth/Graves