GDT: Game 39: Avs vs Hawks | 7 PM MT | December 29, 2018

[Hasbro]

? What advantage?

A playoff team having the 2nd draft slot at the moment, another lottery pick waiting in the wings, a decent amount of other prospects, a buttload of cap space and the best line in hockey.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I think Sakic has a big decision to make. Does he make trades at the trade deadline to make sure the team doesn't fall anymore behind and miss the playoffs or just ride out the season hoping that 1st line can keep carrying the team.

And how mad was Landeskog in the interview when he was asked about the 1st line. Basically he was upset about keep on being called a one line team, says it's not just the 1st line, they are a team and he wont answer anymore questions about the top line LOL..

Sorry Landy, I know truth hurts, but the Avs are a very much a one line team.

It really doesn’t matter what the team is.

Landeskog is feeling like it’s disrespectful to completely disregard the rest of the team as if they’re worthless.

He has a legitimate reason to stop answering that question as a captain. You don’t s**t on his teammates by constant asking the same dumb question.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I don't want to win a round or two in the playoffs. I want a dynasty.

Interesting take.

You seem to equate, keeping picks and prospects as dynasty.

Maybe we should be at least semi-realistic and hope for a singular cup in the next 20 years rather than hope to be the next Chicago, who by the way, was only able to recreate a dynasty with cap-diving deals that are no longer possible.

The possibilities of a dynasty are crashing down right now ,and with each CBA renewal, essentially going to be nullified altogether.

 

[EdAVSfan]

While Avs have been extremely streaky this season, it's hard to argue that they aren't right about where they should be at this point. They were a borderline playoff team when they started the season and they are one right now.

You don't build a team in-season so anyone expecting Sakic to do something major will most likely be disappointed.

I don’t think anyone is expecting the team to be built in-season. They’re simply asking for flaws to be addressed when they’re so clear. And since they were clear before the season even started.

And again, no one is suggesting to fix issues at all costs. BUT, there does seem to be potential opportunity to address weaknesses on this team. We’re just hoping Sakic isn’t closing his eyes and imagining the word patience all day long.

No GM should just sit and wait. They should be constantly proactive and constantly look for good deals, good value moves and ways to get to your ultimate goal. You can’t just determine at the beginning of the season that you’re not gonna do anything, regardless of what’s happening around you.

Just this off-season we saw 3 very good players moved for realistically low prices. Don’t just bury your head in the sand. Create opportunity. Improve your team. Seek out good deals. Because when you decide to take your head out of the sand, there may not be good deals available, or the right players available. That’s when you get desperate and overpay, or pay for the wrong guys.

 

[Hasbro]

Interesting take.

You seem to equate, keeping picks and prospects as dynasty.

You need ammunition to create one and I don't want to sacrifice that for a quick fix.

I'd rather swing for the fences with Ottawa's pick and trying to bag an elephant on the free agent market as opposed to bunting with a Boedker type rental now.

 

[EdAVSfan]

You need ammunition to create one and I don't want to sacrifice that for a quick fix.

I'd rather swing for the fences with Ottawa's pick and trying to bag an elephant on the free agent market as opposed to bunting with a Boedker type rental now.

Both of those things are still possible even if the Avs make a move to improve their team.

 

[Foppberg]

People around here always tend to get a bit silly, whether we win or lose.

Win a few games in a row "I wonder who we'll face in the semi's"

Lose a few in a row "everything sucks we're never going to be a contender MacKinnon is going to walk"

Yes, we need secondary scoring. Yes, we need better goaltending, all of this has been known for awhile now. We still have great young core players, a top pick, and a top prospect waiting in the wings. The majority of the teams in the league would kill to be in our position. Things aren't as good as they sound when we're winning, but it's sure has hell no as bad as what I've been reading the past few days.

 

[Freudian]

Just this off-season we saw 3 very good players moved for realistically low prices. Don’t just bury your head in the sand. Create opportunity. Improve your team. Seek out good deals. Because when you decide to take your head out of the sand, there may not be good deals available, or the right players available. That’s when you get desperate and overpay, or pay for the wrong guys.

That's my point. Sakic didn't pursue Stastny (at least not seriously). He didn't go after Skinner or O'Reilly despite prices being very realistic.

Sakic is fine seeing what he has this year. He's not going for it. He would have been more active this summer if he was.

 

[chet1926]

It's funny to me reading all the posts popping up about Sakic not doing anything this off-season, and how it was a mistake etc. Because I sat there all off-season bitching about this very thing and was getting ripped by many of the same posters, saying I was wrong we shouldn't waste assets or cap space etc. And how it was smart of Sakic to just stay the course and not mess with team chemistry and so forth.

Well I guess I was right, this team sucks outside of three players. And they can't carry them every single night. Sakic screwed us this year, wasted another year of MacKinnon's prime.

 

[Hasbro]

Both of those things are still possible even if the Avs make a move to improve their team.

I'd rather risk letting Stone go on the UFA market and retain the 1st round pick(s) then lose 1st round picks and get 1/4 season and negotiation rights with Stone.

 

[Hasbro]

That's my point. Sakic didn't pursue Stastny (at least not seriously).

Where you getting that?

 

[Balthazar]

That's my point. Sakic didn't pursue Stastny (at least not seriously). He didn't go after Skinner or O'Reilly despite prices being very realistic.

Skinner we all have good reasons to believe that he would not come here. Sakic not going after the other 2 is understandable.

While I agree that Sakic is too passive, those are 3 very bad examples.

 

[EdAVSfan]

That's my point. Sakic didn't pursue Stastny (at least not seriously). He didn't go after Skinner or O'Reilly despite prices being very realistic.

Sakic is fine seeing what he has this year. He's not going for it. He would have been more active this summer if he was.

That’s kinda hard to say. Sakic wasn’t going for it because in theory, he had faith in his prospects.

We have no idea what hes thinking now, or what the actual goals were this year.

My point is, a good GM shouldn’t make a decision in July that he’s standing pat, and literally ignore and bury his head in the ground for a calendar year regardless of what’s happening around him.

There needs to be a point where not going for it doesn’t equate to doing nothing.
Those are 2 very different things.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I'd rather risk letting Stone go on the UFA market and retain the 1st round pick(s) then lose 1st round picks and get 1/4 season and negotiation rights with Stone.

So a deal centers around the Avs 1st for Stone is just an absolute no-go for you?

I understand the value of picks, I get it. But at some point, you can’t build your team entirely out of your own draft. No one has done it, and no one will.

We already have the Ottawa pick and an additional 3rd. It’s not like we’re suggesting trade all the picks for rentals.
Solve problems. Solve the roster issues. Find solutions to you organizational problems. I promise you it won’t solve itself. And trying to solve roster issues with your own draft picks can be extremely difficult, long, and sometimes, not even possible.

 

[Hasbro]

So a deal centers around the Avs 1st for Stone is just an absolute no-go for you?

It would take at least a 1st and a 1st equivalent value prospect and probably another conditional 1st, for the season he's having and the Senators baggage with regards to the Avalanche. And that's assuming they aren't dead set against trading with Sakic again. they've already shot themselves in the foot limiting their trade market.

And beyond Stone I just don't like the trade market right now. Duchene is a no go from all three parties, a lot of the sellers being divisional rivals, teams underachieving that aren't likely to give up their good players this season and a lot of dross.

I'd actually be willing to be a 2 season cap shelter for another team, under the right circumstances.

 

[PAZ]

Graves credited with 3 hits, 5 blocks, and one takeaway (no giveaways) in 10:32 of ice time.

The ice time overall was interesting. Girard only received 13:32 of TOI, compared with Nemeth, who had nearly twenty minutes.

Nieto played nearly 18 minutes at forward, nearly three more minutes than Soderberg, and the fifth highest total among the forwards.

The Nieto, Nemeth, and Girard ice time totals are interesting to me considering that the Avs were playing from behind for a chunk of the game and I would think those times would be reversed under those circumstances.

Girard was absolutely horrid from when I started watching. He was worse than Nemeth this game. Graves made some physical plays but his outlet pass and transition is bad. Nieto was playing with Mack/Rants in the first before getting demoted, and then he was out there a bunch on the PK.

 

[PAZ]

Also, people are ripping on Sakic for being too patient or not making any off-season moves, but you guys do realize that you're being hypocritical, right? The only reason we got the Duchene return was because he was patient. If he wasn't, we could've ended up with a return similar to ROR (which is looking better now with the Blues imploding) but at the time it was horrible value. Murray tried to rush things in Buffalo and it failed miserably and set the franchise back years.

I get everyone has differing opinions, but in my view the moves Sakic made this offseason was treating this as the final developmental year - he has set himself for a huge offseason. If he doesn't do anything with all this big name UFA than i'll start to be annoyed. But everyone would also be ripping on him if he made a big move and Rantanen or Mackinnon regressed, they both only had last season where they showed they were dominant.

 

[Balthazar]

I don't know if it's related or not but Girard hasn't been the same after crashing hard into the boards in the Arizona game. I wonder if he'd play if Z wasn't injured.

 

[EdAVSfan]

It would take at least a 1st and a 1st equivalent value prospect and probably another conditional 1st, for the season he's having and the Senators baggage with regards to the Avalanche. And that's assuming they aren't dead set against trading with Sakic again. they've already shot themselves in the foot limiting their trade market.

And beyond Stone I just don't like the trade market right now. Duchene is a no go from all three parties, a lot of the sellers being divisional rivals, teams underachieving that aren't likely to give up their good players this season and a lot of dross.

I'd actually be willing to be a 2 season cap shelter for another team, under the right circumstances.

I could understand your pause in not wanting to trade them.

I just simply disagree with the cost. There’s no part of me that thinks the senators will get equivalent value of 3 legitimate 1st rounders for Stone.

Is there any precedent of this for a pending UFA?

 

[Hasbro]

Is there any precedent of this for a pending UFA?

Duchene

 

[EdAVSfan]

Also, people are ripping on Sakic for being too patient or not making any off-season moves, but you guys do realize that you're being hypocritical, right? The only reason we got the Duchene return was because he was patient. If he wasn't, we could've ended up with a return similar to ROR (which is looking better now with the Blues imploding) but at the time it was horrible value. Murray tried to rush things in Buffalo and it failed miserably and set the franchise back years.

I get everyone has differing opinions, but in my view the moves Sakic made this offseason was treating this as the final developmental year - he has set himself for a huge offseason. If he doesn't do anything with all this big name UFA than i'll start to be annoyed. But everyone would also be ripping on him if he made a big move and Rantanen or Mackinnon regressed, they both only had last season where they showed they were dominant.

Problem is that these are two completely different scenarios.

In one case, he’s selling, in the other he’s buying.

No GM uses the exact same approach for every situation. We’ve seen the Avs be proactive before for an impending problem (Grubauer and Francouz).

I just don’t understand this notion of “patience@ when we have no idea what the costs are and who’s available.

It’s like, at what point does it make sense? Clearly, McDavid for a 7th is a good enough deal that would supersede the “patience” rule. So what deal not as outrageous is acceptable to the stand pat group?

At some point, it’s still a good idea to be proactive at the right price.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Duchene

Duchene was trade at the beginning of November. That made him eligible to play some 150-ish games with the Senators.

Stone would be for 25ish.

Pending UFA.

 

[Hasbro]

At some point, it’s still a good idea to be proactive at the right price.

I think that point is this Summer.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I think that point is this Summer.

What happens if the players you’ve targeted, are too expensive, or aren’t available? Or don’t want to sign here?

Then what? Patience again?

 

[Hasbro]

Duchene was trade at the beginning of November. That made him eligible to play some 150-ish games with the Senators.

Stone would be for 25ish.

Pending UFA.

Derrick Brassard got a 1st a 3rd and a pretty good prospect in Gustuvson and he was not having half the season Stone was.

I think the prospect coming from our end would be someone like Kaut or Bowers who are at least worth a 1st.