GDT: Game #30 Vancouver Canucks @ Your Columbus Blue Jackets 12-11-18

[Maylo]

It was rumored Charlie Coyle was available, that’s an easy trade target. Might not even need to trade AW away.

Coyle is a poor man Jenner, and he sucks at center.

 

[Viqsi]

It was rumored Charlie Coyle was available, that’s an easy trade target. Might not even need to trade AW away.

Is he, now? Have you looked at what the Wild are looking for?

Pro tip: they're after the exact same thing we are in this situation; they have an okay center and they want to upgrade to a better one.

* * *​

To fill a vital piece that is keeping this team from being a contender. That’s what trading is all about . Maybe another team doesn’t have a piece we can offer, to get us a legit center. The gap is growing with Jenner over Wennberg , because Wennberg is invisible 98% of the time, but by no means is Jenner a 2c

That question was meant for that poster, really. The point is that 1) if these guys truly are as must-go-now awful as being suggested, they're not going to net a trade return, 2) if they're actually good enough to return something valuable in trade, maybe there's something good about them that merits keeping them as well, and 3) just because you want to trade somebody doesn't mean you're going to get the replacement you want; the trade market doesn't work that way.

 

[major major]

Sounds like you just don’t want to admit you’re wrong.

Foligno, Wennberg, Milano, Bjorkstrand, 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks all have value. We have prospects too such as Stenlund, Foudy, Peeke etc.

She meant focus on the parts of those trades that had value, so not Berglund, etc... You weren't listing the actual costs, and generally trying to make it seem far easier than it is.

This is a ridiculous debate anyways, no one here is opposed to a center upgrade. I'm nearly 100% positive that Jarmo is ready to strike if he finds a good deal for a 2C.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Perhaps, and hear me out here, the team just isn't that good?

It's certainly not bad either. Still one of the youngest teams. Going to get younger next year with Bob and Panarin leaving. It's not a cup contender, it's a bubble team. Shooting for the cup by trading for Tarasenko (assuming it costs Werenski) would be a mistake. Tarasenko doesn't help this team in the areas it needs help in.

We've grown too attached to playoffs as a sure thing. And although bus writes it off as no big deal, the team was one point away from missing last year and required a 10 game win streak to even do that. Impressive? Yes. But to assume it will happen again is foolish. Teams like Tampa don't go on absurdly long win streaks because they don't need to catch fire, they just stay at a good winning pace all year long. Maybe this is the year where we fall just short. And quite frankly, to date, they deserve it.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Yeah let's spare some young smart 2 meters RHD who can move the puck, because we have plenty of them.

So mix in someone else, he’s just throwing out an example

 

[Viqsi]

Perhaps, and hear me out here, the team just isn't that good?

It's certainly not bad either. Still one of the youngest teams. Going to get younger next year with Bob and Panarin leaving. It's not a cup contender, it's a bubble team. Shooting for the cup by trading for Tarasenko (assuming it costs Werenski) would be a mistake. Tarasenko doesn't help this team in the areas it needs help in.

We've grown too attached to playoffs as a sure thing. And although bus writes it off as no big deal, the team was one point away from missing last year and required a 10 game win streak to even do that. Impressive? Yes. But to assume it will happen again is foolish. Teams like Tampa don't go on absurdly long win streaks because they don't need to catch fire, they just stay at a good winning pace all year long. Maybe this is the year where we fall just short. And quite frankly, to date, they deserve it.

You realize, of course, that even with this recent slump we still have a winning record. And not just of the "over .500" variety.

 

[Cowumbus]

Is he, now? Have you looked at what the Wild are looking for?

Pro tip: they're after the exact same thing we are in this situation; they have an okay center and they want to upgrade to a better one.

* * *​

That question was meant for that poster, really. The point is that 1) if these guys truly are as must-go-now awful as being suggested, they're not going to net a trade return, 2) if they're actually good enough to return something valuable in trade, maybe there's something good about them that merits keeping them as well, and 3) just because you want to trade somebody doesn't mean you're going to get the replacement you want; the trade market doesn't work that way.

We could trade Wennberg for picks and have Stenlund come up. He might be better than AW at this point.

 

[Viqsi]

So mix in someone else, he’s just throwing out an example

Again, trades don't work that way. You have to provide what the other team wants, not throw together random extra assets and say "that's enough value".

* * *​

We could trade Wennberg for picks and have Stenlund come up. He might be better than AW at this point.

oh sweet G-d Almighty, this nonsense again

How about - and hear me out on this, because I know it's radical and controversial - how about calling up Stenlund, and not trading Wennberg? Because if Stenlund is that awesome he'll earn the job on his own, and if he falls short then we haven't committed ourselves recklessly to penciling in a kid with zero NHL experience as our #2C and having No Backup Plan as a followup?

 

[major major]

Yeah let's spare some young smart 2 meters RHD who can move the puck, because we have plenty of them.

This gave me a chuckle.

We are a little short on 2 meters players.

And Peeke is a little short on 2 meters.

 

[Cowumbus]

Again, trades don't work that way. You have to provide what the other team wants, not throw together random extra assets and say "that's enough value".

* * *​

oh sweet G-d Almighty, this nonsense again

How about - and hear me out on this, because I know it's radical and controversial - how about calling up Stenlund, and not trading Wennberg? Because if Stenlund is that awesome he'll earn the job on his own, and if he falls short then we haven't committed ourselves recklessly to penciling in a kid with zero NHL experience as our #2C and having No Backup Plan as a followup?

Holy s*** are you that dumb? It’s hyperbole. You need to stop, you’re just embarrassing yourself at this point.

 

[Viqsi]

Holy s*** are you that dumb? It’s hyperbole. You need to stop, you’re just embarrassing yourself at this point.

Poe's Law.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

You realize, of course, that even with this recent slump we still have a winning record. And not just of the "over .500" variety.

Yes, I do realize. That's why I said the team is a bubble team, and that it's not bad. But it's not good enough to win a round either.

If we were in the Atlantic division, we'd be out of the playoffs by a game. Yes, I realize we're not, but our division is underperforming and we didn't take advantage. Pittsburgh will make it, it's assured, so we have to maintain a better pace than the Islanders, Canes, and Rangers to make it in and get slaughtered (again) by likely Pittsburgh.

This was a big month. Lots of home games. And they've lost all of the home games so far. Vancouver should be a win for this team on a night like tonight. After two straight embarrassing home defeats Yet, it wasn't. They played well enough to win, yet only scored once. Different things cost them in different games because the team has lots of holes.

 

[Viqsi]

Yes, I do realize. That's why I said the team is a bubble team, and that it's not bad. But it's not good enough to win a round either.

If we were in the Atlantic division, we'd be out of the playoffs by a game. Yes, I realize we're not, but our division is underperforming and we didn't take advantage. Pittsburgh will make it, it's assured, so we have to maintain a better pace than the Islanders, Canes, and Rangers to make it in and get slaughtered (again) by likely Pittsburgh.

This was a big month. Lots of home games. And they've lost all of the home games so far. Vancouver should be a win for this team on a night like tonight. Yet, it wasn't. They played well enough to win, yet only scored once. Different things cost them in different games because the team has lots of holes.

Two things:
1) This seems to assume that tougher games to follow are more likely to be losses, which I do not think necessarily follows. The team can just as easily rise to the occasion.
2) Twice, not once.

 

[major major]

Is he, now? Have you looked at what the Wild are looking for?

Pro tip: they're after the exact same thing we are in this situation; they have an okay center and they want to upgrade to a better one.

​

​

I actually think Coyle for Wennberg might be a good change of scenery trade for both players.

Oddly similar points the last three years. Coyle's playstyle might fit here better, and Wennberg seems like a Minnesota Wild type of player.

 

[Viqsi]

I actually think Coyle for Wennberg might be a good change of scenery trade for both players.

Oddly similar points the last three years. Coyle's playstyle might fit here better, and Wennberg seems like a Minnesota Wild type of player.

I'm less sanguine about Coyle myself, but am willing to concede there's a debate to be had.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Two things:
1) This seems to assume that tougher games to follow are more likely to be losses, which I do not think necessarily follows. The team can just as easily rise to the occasion.
2) Twice, not once.

If they can rattle off 4 wins out of the last 6 before Christmas, we can talk again. However, those games feature the Knights, Ducks, and Kings (who we seem to never beat) as well as divisional games. So...

It reminds me of the late Hitch/early Arniel era CBJ. Who would be in a good spot usually around Thanksgiving (granted, usually not in a playoff spot, but close) and then the bottom falls out in December.

 

[major major]

Yes, I do realize. That's why I said the team is a bubble team, and that it's not bad. But it's not good enough to win a round either.

A playoff team that has no chance of winning a round is an extraordinarily bad playoff team. The Jackets will have a decent shot if they're in (that's true for just about every playoff team).

Different things cost them in different games because the team has lots of holes.

The only hole I saw tonight was Korpi's.

The Jackets roster has few holes in my opinion. Nothing unfixable.

 

[Maylo]

I actually think Coyle for Wennberg might be a good change of scenery trade for both players.

Oddly similar points the last three years. Coyle's playstyle might fit here better, and Wennberg seems like a Minnesota Wild type of player.

Sorry but Coyle is winger. If we are trading Wennberg it's for real 2C, not Coyle.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

A playoff team that has no chance of winning a round is an extraordinarily bad playoff team. The Jackets will have a decent shot if they're in (that's true for just about every playoff team).

Playing devils advocate, if they do get in they're certainly not catching Washington, which means a round 1 matchup against Pittsburgh would be most likely. You and I both know how that would go.

And if they managed to get a wild card spot, its a date with Tampa/Toronto or Washington.....which wouldn't go well either.

 

[major major]

Sorry but Coyle is winger. If we are trading Wennberg it's for real 2C, not Coyle.

Coyle is currently playing center, like Jenner is. And if he's just as good as Boone Jenner at center, I'm fine with that. I honestly don't know the player very well.

 

[rjgrp]

Wennberg - #puppydaddy
It all makes sense now.

 

[major major]

But where does Duclair go if not with Wennberg? He absolutely does not mesh with Nash and Hannikainen.

I'm in favor of big line changes anyways.

Duclair - Dubois - Atkinson
Jenner/Dubinsky - Anderson
Foligno - Wennberg - Bjorkstrand
-------- Nash - Hannikainen

Panarin plays every third shift at LW, a bit on each line. Every line gets a boost when Artemi is out there, even the fourth line is great with him out there.

Duclair - Dubois - Atkinson, for those who don't remember, was electric in their one game together. I'd try it again. That second line had a great two games before Dubi was hurt, and that third unit was a very good staple line last year. All are at least worth trying again.

 

[Maylo]

Coyle is currently playing center, like Jenner is. And if he's just as good as Boone Jenner at center, I'm fine with that. I honestly don't know the player very well.

I watched him, i wanted him last year for Milano. He's that converted center, as you call it. Poor at FO(44%), gets 50% OZ starts and better at wing. Last year he was outplayed by 100 years old Matt Cullen for center position. Why trade natural center in Wennberg for poor man Jenner?

If swap him swap for Fligs who said he wanted to play with his brother.

 

[major major]

Playing devils advocate, if they do get in they're certainly not catching Washington, which means a round 1 matchup against Pittsburgh would be most likely. You and I both know how that would go.

And if they managed to get a wild card spot, its a date with Tampa/Toronto or Washington.....which wouldn't go well either.

We don't know what would happen. This isn't basketball, they have to play the games first.

I'd probably bet on the Pens and they'd probably get 2-1 or 3-1 odds, which IIRC is not as even as the odds the Jackets had vs the Caps. But it's nonetheless a significant chance the Jackets could win. That's hockey.

 

[Maylo]

I'm in favor of big line changes anyways.

Duclair - Dubois - Atkinson
Jenner/Dubinsky - Anderson
Foligno - Wennberg - Bjorkstrand
-------- Nash - Hannikainen

If Andy is out with concussion they need to call some scoring from Monsters, Sedlack is not a fill for Andy.