Post-Game Talk: Game 3 : DAL @ DET 3 Stars and Wrapup

[rrasco]

He's definitely seemed more engaged this season than in most of last season. Just thought it was a odd time for him to pull the hockey equivalent of the Little League outfielder sitting in the grass and picking flowers when he laid down the in crease and stayed there while the Wings had the puck.

Was he being held down or did he just lay there? LOL I never see that before?

I saw that too and was like, now Mule is literally just laying there on the ice? Then I saw the defender had the stick between his legs can-opener style. I don't think the defender was holding him down, but I believe Franzen was milking the situation to keep the defender occupied so he couldn't block a shot. I think Mule may have been holding his stick more than the D was holding him down. Had the Wings shot the net was clear to the right side.

 

[Iowa Wingsfan]

Franzen is not a small guy, how many people in the league could prevent him from getting up if he actually tried? I would venture to say not that many. Franzen laying down in the crease is a microcosm of this team, not much push back or fight.

 

[TatarTangle]

Lehtonen wasn't challenged that much, he's just solid position wise. And he's 6'4''. For the past couple years the Red Wings have boosted their shot tally by taking outside shots that have no chance of going in, especially against a goalie like Lehntonen.

Howard, however, didn't have his work cut out for him. My initial thought was if he continues to play like this they are going to have to pay him A LOT of money to stay.

Wasn't that bad of a game, I wasn't sure who was going to win so the Red Wings losing didn't surprise me. I'm almost disinterested, I know going in it's not going to be that exciting of a hockey game, at least from the Red Wings standpoint, even with Nyquist in the line-up because I knew he wasn't going to be utilized.

Babcock needs to start using Tootoo more, he makes things happen out there, not by his offensive skills but by his speed and willingness to go into the corners and lay out some punishment. Bob hinted at playing Tootoo on the first line the other day and I'm at the point where I'd agree. Dump the puck in and let him go get it. He doesn't have stone hands, he makes some smart passes.

It'd be best for the Red Wings to decline any penalty thrown at the other team and remain at even strength. Their powerplay is even more embarassing than the St. Louis game.

 

[Brick Top]

Just clarifying that the kind of defense (and you may be saying exactly that) that suppresses SOGs is a team defense. If we're no longer a puck possession team, you can't blame the defenders for the higher SOG rate. That means the forwards aren't getting to the puck and hanging on to it either.

To further clarify your clarification, I was referring to the team defense as a whole, not just the defensemen (shouldn't have used the "D"). I definitely don't blame the entire SOG allowed problem on the D-men, as it's clear the forwards aren't helping out enough in the defensive zone to get pucks out.

The Wings inability to create pressure and maintain puck possession in the offensive zone is killing their defense as well. They've been a one shot and done offense most of the first 3 games this season, which is putting too much pressure on the team defense. The forwards need to play better in their own zone, and keep the puck hemmed in more on the offensive zone (I'm guessing both are easier typed than done given the roster we are trotting out now).

 

[RedMenace]

Maybe I was seeing things, but Lashoff was out with Kronwall? Top pairing? Greater offensive threat?

Then again, checking the TOI/gm, Smitty was second of the D at close to 21 and Kronner led at 25+. Smitty was getting more IT with Dats and Z as Babs starting mixing things up a bit in the third.

Well, Lashoff is paired with Kronwall, but that doesn't mean he's being put in a greater offensive role; I mean, Smith does have 4:39 on the PP whereas Lashoff has a whopping 2 seconds.

I know it'd be pretty scary initially, but I'd like to see Smith and Lashoff together.

 

[Fugu]

Well, Lashoff is paired with Kronwall, but that doesn't mean he's being put in a greater offensive role; I mean, Smith does have 4:39 on the PP whereas Lashoff has a whopping 2 seconds.

I know it'd be pretty scary initially, but I'd like to see Smith and Lashoff together.

So play with Kronwall, Z, Dats and Brunner isn't a 'greater' offensive role?

 

[RedMenace]

So play with Kronwall, Z, Dats and Brunner isn't a 'greater' offensive role?

Nah, he's the defensive guy in that group -- though in your defense, he does have more points than Smith.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Yep, and Howard was on the ice for all 11 of them too... Guess that means Howard sucks and should be traded

Or maybe Monster was on the ice for one of them because Howard was pulled...

Wings scored a whopping 4 goals since the start of the season

3 were against Lolumbus.

 

[Flowah]

Yep, and Howard was on the ice for all 11 of them too... Guess that means Howard sucks and should be traded

Or maybe Monster was on the ice for one of them because Howard was pulled...

Wings scored a whopping 4 goals since the start of the season

I don't get why you think that's a relevant comparison.

Howard is the goalie. He's on the ice the whole time. Q is not. It says something that more goals are scored when he's on the ice than when any other pairing is on. Anyone who's been watching him play knows Howard is not the problem. The Wings had no business being in the game last night, but Howard kept them in it. It was frustrating to see him get no help at all.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Datsyuk and Z need to up their game and they must be seperated. These guys have a higher level to go to and they have to for this team to be successful. They both need the puck though and on the same line they struggle now to share it like they used to.

This team also needs to focus on unlocking the middle and going to tougher areas. Too much of their offense is coming from the outside and against good NHL starters that is a very tough place to score.

Smith needs to work on his start and stop speed. He has an impressive top speed, but the game is much choppier at the NHL level and this part of his game is lacking in the first three games.

Brunner has a good shot, but it is from 30 to 40 feet in. He is not a threat back out there on the point. That is a different skill and he is also struggling with how tight the lanes are out there. That first goal even as a garbage goal should do a decent amount for his confidence.

Howard looked like the same Jimmy from the first half of last season last night which is a good sign.

Filppula is not a center, it takes all the aggression out of his game.

How many posts are we going to hit? Not much puck luck in the first couple of games.

Quincey is well.... I had hoped he would round into form, watch quite a bit of other hockey and I can say the guy that played in Denver has not shown up. He doesn't understand his assignments in this system and it leads to terrible blown coverages. He also eats the puck far too often for a player that is seen as a puck mover.

The Wings as a team in general have terrible edge work and stop and start skating. They need to work on explosiveness.

 

[Xvash2]

Yep, and Howard was on the ice for all 11 of them too... Guess that means Howard sucks and should be traded

Or maybe Monster was on the ice for one of them because Howard was pulled...

Wings scored a whopping 4 goals since the start of the season

Comparing apples and bananas here man.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The backend is going to be a problem.

But it is very dangerous to evaluate this team on this short sample size without Helm. A lot of us like to go around calling him a core player and that is because they are a different team without him in the lineup. It really changes the roles and hurts the way we role lines.

When you can fill half your bench with injuries on opening night it is tough to get a true read on the team. You can evaluate what you see, but we haven't seen the intended team either.

At some point though beyond just bad luck we need to look at what is happening in the injury department. We are doing something wrong there. Much like I have trouble believing Minnesota is flat out unlucky all these years, the Wings need to start taking a serious look at their training staff and habits. Injuries happen, but this is an inexcusable amount and beyond what I can consider an accident all over.

 

[Vladdy84]

Datsyuk and Z need to up their game and they must be seperated. These guys have a higher level to go to and they have to for this team to be successful. They both need the puck though and on the same line they struggle now to share it like they used to.

This team also needs to focus on unlocking the middle and going to tougher areas. Too much of their offense is coming from the outside and against good NHL starters that is a very tough place to score.

Smith needs to work on his start and stop speed. He has an impressive top speed, but the game is much choppier at the NHL level and this part of his game is lacking in the first three games.

Brunner has a good shot, but it is from 30 to 40 feet in. He is not a threat back out there on the point. That is a different skill and he is also struggling with how tight the lanes are out there. That first goal even as a garbage goal should do a decent amount for his confidence.

Howard looked like the same Jimmy from the first half of last season last night which is a good sign.

Filppula is not a center, it takes all the aggression out of his game.

How many posts are we going to hit? Not much puck luck in the first couple of games.

Quincey is well.... I had hoped he would round into form, watch quite a bit of other hockey and I can say the guy that played in Denver has not shown up. He doesn't understand his assignments in this system and it leads to terrible blown coverages. He also eats the puck far too often for a player that is seen as a puck mover.

The Wings as a team in general have terrible edge work and stop and start skating. They need to work on explosiveness.

Agree with most this.

Lineup for Friday

Flip-Dats-Brunner
Mule-Z-Bert
Cleary-Helm-Sammy/Nyquist
Tootoo-Abs-Miller/Eaves

 

[Sentinel]

Yes, Holland should resign after giving you playoffs for how many years and how many cups? Please. Take a breath and realize that we have tons of injuries, it is only game 3, and stop, just stop.

Dude, he BOUGHT the Cup in 2002. It was Devellano's team still in 1998. 2008 was his only real accomplishment. But in the "what have you done for me lately" world Holland absolutely sucks. In fact, I don't mind if Wings miss this year's playoffs completely if it means (1) getting Holland fired and (2) a reasonably high first rounder that Holland won't piss away on Kyle Quincey.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

I was saying before the season that Quincey was the team's 6th-best defenseman, ahead of only Colaiacovo.

He actually looked a lot better tonight than he did the first two games. Granted, that's not saying a ton. But maybe it's a ign of someone who was just out of game shape and is rounding into form?

I hope.

Speaking of rounding into shape, is Cleary looking any better?

 

[Brick Top]

Speaking of rounding into shape, is Cleary looking any better?

Meh, he looks like the Cleary of the last few years- ineffective, turning the puck over, and still first in line to be promoted to the top 6.

 

[FlashyG]

Dude, he BOUGHT the Cup in 2002. It was Devellano's team still in 1998. 2008 was his only real accomplishment. But in the "what have you done for me lately" world Holland absolutely sucks. In fact, I don't mind if Wings miss this year's playoffs completely if it means (1) getting Holland fired and (2) a reasonably high first rounder that Holland won't piss away on Kyle Quincey.

Devellano has had the same role under Holland for his entire tenure and is a critical part of their decision making process, so if you think Holland "Absolutely Sucks" you are throwing Devellano under the same bus.

I think you'd be disappointed should the Wings miss the playoffs this year as I doubt Holland would be the one getting the Ax. It would most likely be Babcock.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Devellano has had the same role under Holland for his entire tenure and is a critical part of their decision making process, so if you think Holland "Absolutely Sucks" you are throwing Devellano under the same bus.

I think you'd be disappointed should the Wings miss the playoffs this year as I doubt Holland would be the one getting the Ax. It would most likely be Babcock.

Holland is going nowhere even if they have a terrible year, if they have two in a row, he might just become president but I doubt that is pushed through right away.

He will still be in the building and have a big voice. They also would likely just promote Nill, who has a ton in common with Holland.

Also find it funny they had a three way GM thing going but Holland clearly didn't do anything according to a lot of his detractors. Holland was promoted out of it, why??? Maybe because the ideas he was pushing and they implemented kept working out. I know everyone that worships at the alter of Bowman wants to believe he is at the heart of some of the great decisions in the early 90's. But I find it highly unlikely. He was a great coach, his front office skills have been questioned several times and with good reason. He had a lot of power in Buffalo and couldn't get that thing off the ground at all. He also has a much bigger voice in the Chicago organization than he had here and while they are good, I actually blame management for them not accomplishing more and a string of curious decisions.

Don't forget also one of Bowman's first orders of business was an attempt to trade Yzerman that Devellano and Ilitch killed and shortly after they formed a three headed GM system and then later stripped him of those powers. It would appear that the head scout that worked his way through the system and Devellano had cosiderable power in the process. If they didn't like a deal it wouldn't happen and the talent in the system came from their own leg work.

On Devellano he was in place since 1982 and had to actually step aside in 1990. He was a part of the system in my opinion to hold Scotty in check. But I will always believe Holland was driving the bus pretty quickly in the 90's.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/staff.php?staff=324

 

[Sentinel]

Holland was pretty good with the unlimited resources at his disposal (which is not a small task, look at the Rangers), but after the cap he pretty much lost it. His last great addition was Hossa, and that was 5 years ago.

 

[probertrules24]

Holland was pretty good with the unlimited resources at his disposal (which is not a small task, look at the Rangers), but after the cap he pretty much lost it. His last great addition was Hossa, and that was 5 years ago.

Holland helped mold the team to the Western conference finals, then to the cup and back to the finals the following year. How many other GM's have done this while making the playoffs every year while under the cap. He and the management team were one the first to figure out the loop holes in the cap. He understands exactly whats going on.

I think it's more of the Wings fans that are losing it. Are there moves he could of made, sure. Just making a trade to make a trade isn't always the best move.