Post-Game Talk: Game 3 : DAL @ DET 3 Stars and Wrapup

[Fugu]

Quincey was noticeably bad. Whenever he's on the ice, a fog of chaos and confusion just seems to follow and everything goes all to hell. When E gets healthy, I'd consider just doing a straight sub and running with Kronwall-Lashoff/Smith-E/Huskins-White as our D pairings.

I don't want Ericsson anywhere near Smitty. You guys are all lulled into some form of amnesia right now.

3 Stars

1. Lehtonen
2. Howard
3. Ryder

Our PP has to start scoring if we're going to win games. WHY CAN'T WE SCORE GOALS!?!?

Kyle Quincey?

 

[pdd]

That's what I thought too. Wings generated some good chances, hit some posts, and Lehtonen had an outstanding game.

This was a good battle. I didn't think any one defenseman really looked putrid.

Which is really what "defense by committee" is all about. The big question is, now that we've signed Huskins, what happens when everyone's healthy?

Huskins looked pretty solid. Kindl comes back soon, so it's probably now or never (in Detroit) for Jakub. Alternatively, Quincey can be dealt. White is UFA at the end of the year but is unlikely to be traded unless the team is a deadline seller (read: terrible record) so we can pretty much figure that the defensive pairings will look something like this with a healthy post-Quincey defense:

Kronwall-Huskins
Smith-Ericsson
Kindl/Colaiacovo-White

Alternatively:

Kronwall-White
Smith-Huskins
Kindl-Ericsson
Colaiacovo

 

[Fugu]

No, he's not. He doesn't have a hard slapshot and will always shift down to the post for a wrister. Also, he's at best average on defense. There is absolutely no reason to have him at the line.

Brunner leads the league in shots on goal

Welcome to our new fans from Switzerland.

I don't get the complaints about Franzen. He was vital in two of our goals yesterday and he's been working hard. I think you guys are letting your bias towards him blind you from his performance. Yes, he could be doing better but he's the least of our problems at the moment.

He's a bit streaky but by the end of the season, he'll somehow manage to be the leading goal scorer and he'll still get ragged.

Is Brendan Smith struggling that bad? I thought he would be making more of an impack, albeit only 3 games in.

Wings can't really score very well at the moment, so the fans are putting rookies under the microscope. He'll be fine. I think this was his best game of the three so far. He's figuring out how to use his speed a bit better. He'll learn to be more physical as the games wear on. Next, he has to find his offensive flair. He's still being overly cautious.

Hell, our idiot coach had Lashoff in more offensive type settings than Smitty, who's supposed to be a future PP QB. Maybe it's a reverse psychology kind of thing, to scare him into it.

They can't play puck possession anymore.

Remember when people called Lidstrom and Rafalski overpaid?

Yup.

 

[Fugu]

Which is really what "defense by committee" is all about. The big question is, now that we've signed Huskins, what happens when everyone's healthy?

Huskins looked pretty solid. Kindl comes back soon, so it's probably now or never (in Detroit) for Jakub. Alternatively, Quincey can be dealt. White is UFA at the end of the year but is unlikely to be traded unless the team is a deadline seller (read: terrible record) so we can pretty much figure that the defensive pairings will look something like this with a healthy post-Quincey defense:

Kronwall-Huskins
Smith-Ericsson
Kindl/Colaiacovo-White

Alternatively:

Kronwall-White
Smith-Huskins
Kindl-Ericsson
Colaiacovo

I know I'm in the minority by far, but I'm not ready to abandon my concerns over Ericsson. In my wildest dreams, I never imagined him as belong in the top two. That's scarier to me than Quincey on the second pairing.

However--- Holland is going to keep both because both are signed through next year. Coca-cola is also signed for two years, so unless something really strange happens, he's not going anywhere either. He's a veteran. Kronwall is the only guy with a longterm contract, at the moment, and KH is terrified of having to pick over the scrap heaps again, or worse yet, trade assets to get mid- and depth defenders.

Whether or not White comes back will really depend on just what kind of year he has; and if he wants to stay in Detroit.

At this point, I think KH will consider Kronwall, Ericsson and Smitty as guys he's keeping no matter what. Quincey is still a serviceable defenseman who can play all situations, but he's got this year and next to get it together.

If Kindl gets any playing time, he's going to have to be incredible. I don't see it, unfortunately for him.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That's what I thought too. Wings generated some good chances, hit some posts, and Lehtonen had an outstanding game.

This was a good battle. I didn't think any one defenseman really looked putrid. Smitty looked a bit more stable and Lashoff looked more kid-like tonight than the last game.

Offense was getting more pressure on net, were in the Stars zone quite a bit. Love Brunner. Good nose for the net and he loves to shoot!

Howard was outstanding.

Decent game all things said. You hate to lose, but it was a close one and the difference was crossbar here and there (like Fil's early on).

My one issue is without Howard being outstanding tonight, the game isn't decent whatsoever.

I didn't get to watch all of the first two games but it seems like this game is par for the course so far when we are talking about defense.

 

[Fugu]

My one issue is without Howard being outstanding tonight, the game isn't decent whatsoever.

I didn't get to watch all of the first two games but it seems like this game is par for the course so far when we are talking about defense.

How do you think Lehtonen did for the Stars?


I think he also was their difference maker. If I compare this game to the St Louis game, I don't see the Wings on their heels the entire game like they were against St. Louis. They spent almost no time in the attacking zone against STL. In tonight's game, I felt that they generated several great opportunities but failed to convert. They had points in the game where they maintained pressure.

 

[bullocks]

Lashoff has been better, Smith should take notes. Lashy scored a goal, kills 5 on 4s, 4 on 3s, 5 on 3s... just overall solid. And he is almost 2 years younger.

Mabye we can package up Nyquist and Smith for a good tough defenseman, maybe Bogo or use Smith to trade for PK Subban's rights.. PK is younger too.

I guess u forgot to mention how Lashoff left Ryder wide open in the slot for their 2nd goal? I don't get your hate for Smith. He had a pretty good game the past two. Considering ur the biggest Red Wings homer there is it really is something.

 

[Brick Top]

My one issue is without Howard being outstanding tonight, the game isn't decent whatsoever.

I didn't get to watch all of the first two games but it seems like this game is par for the course so far when we are talking about defense.

Yep. So far the Wings D has allowed 36 SOG by St Louis, 33 by C-bus, and 32 by Dallas. Granted, the Wings were able to outshoot both the Jackets and the Stars, but those are still high SOG allowed #'s against average to possibly below average offenses (C-bus anyway). I'm not the first to say it, but what happens when Detroit plays the teams with elite offensive talent on multiple lines? Could be seeing 50+ shots allowed which is going to wear Jimmy out.

The offense needs to start sustaining pressure in the offensive zone, and the D better improve on clearing the puck out, or the long season will continue.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Tootoo deserves more minutes, and I think he brings more to his minutes than Gator and Miller do, who get significantly more. Maybe it's just a reflection of his linemates not getting much time either, but given the general lack of spectacular on our bottom6, this guy should be playing more.

I don't know if he was just caught in between a shift change or it was on purpose, but I saw Tootoo out there with Datsyuk once.

 

[Winger98]

I don't want Ericsson anywhere near Smitty. You guys are all lulled into some form of amnesia right now.

No, it's more a question of who would you put out there? I don't like the idea of an all rookie pairing with Smith-Lashoff, and pairing him with either of White or CC just seems to be more of what they're trying. That leaves Kronner or Huskins. I'd be curious to see Smith with Kronner, but then you're really throwing the kid to the wolves. Huskins might not be so bad.

Probably says something that I'd forgotten about Kindl entirely until just before posting this. Seems like a bad idea putting a guy who might be a bit too exuberant with a guy who seems a bit too tentative, though.

 

[wingfan]

My game observations:

-Howard played a great game. I will say that the first shot was savable, I do not blame him for it as Ryder is a sniper and was given too much time, but for this team to have any sort of success this year, Jimmy is going to have to make the saves he is SUPPOSED TO, and a lot he isn't.
-We can toot Howard's horn all day, but in reality, if it were not for Kari Lehtonen, this game could've been lopsided our way.
-Brunner finally nets one on a dead tired Kari Lehtonen, good to see him put one in after being robbed a solid 4-5 times earlier in the game. I know Z and Brunner played together in the Swiss league, but I like the Pav/Brunner chemistry more. Pav draws so many guys to him and is so good moving the puck in traffic, and Brunner has all the skill to deliver when Pav sets him up.
-Filppula is so much stronger on the puck than I can ever remember him. He might have the tie for second best set of hands on the team with Brunner(behind Pav of course).
-Hank is trying to do way too much.
-Huskins was a solid pickup. I liked his defensive play, especially for his first game in a long time. Could be a VERY solid signing by Holland as a foundation #5/6 guy.
-We're 1-2 right now, without Jonathan Ericsson, Darren Helm, and Todd Bertuzzi. RELAX everyone. We are going to be getting back our two best PK'ers soon in Helm and Ericsson, and a big body with skill in Bertuzzi. I like our team this year.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

If Brian Lashoff is 6'3 I'll eat my hat.
Guy looks small out there

 

[BF3]

Frustrating. Defense is getting better (not saying much), offense is not working. Special teams are just atrocious.

We. Need. To. Shoot. The. Puck. It seemed like we passed up great opportunities, and then later just started throwing it at the net from all angles when we were down two in the third. We need to test the opposing keepers early and often, and we've only done that once and that was against CBJ. When the best offensive player over three games is a Swiss league rookie, that is an issue.

Helm and Bert (maybe Ericsson) back in the lineup + two day layoff at home should = good, even against the Wild. Otherwise, the Red Wings = ****ed.

Lineup Prediction for Friday:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Bert
Filppula-Z-Brunner
Cleary-Helm-Miller
Eaves-Abdelkader-Tootoo

No idea what the D pairings will look like.

 

[JBauerly97]

I don't know if he was just caught in between a shift change or it was on purpose, but I saw Tootoo out there with Datsyuk once.

Noticed that too, towards the end of the game I think.

 

[RedMenace]

...

You're just looking for reasons to call out Smith; he hasn't been nearly as bad as you're claiming, and Quincey has been much worse.

Franzen has been playing well, and surprisingly has been physical, engaged, and defensively active. Will it last? Maybe, maybe not. We can hope.

He's a bit streaky but by the end of the season, he'll somehow manage to be the leading goal scorer and he'll still get ragged.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's playing "well," but he hasn't been terrible, and at the rate the Wings are going, the title of "leading scorer" might not carry too much weight.

Wings can't really score very well at the moment, so the fans are putting rookies under the microscope. He'll be fine. I think this was his best game of the three so far. He's figuring out how to use his speed a bit better. He'll learn to be more physical as the games wear on. Next, he has to find his offensive flair. He's still being overly cautious.

See, I think he's not being cautious enough and trying to do too much -- especially paired with Quaker State. Honest question: Is La Quinta supposed to be an offensive or defensive defenseman? In fact, maybe Babcock should try him at forward, because he's looking less like a defenseman and more like a takingupspaceandcausingissuesonthebluelineman at this point.

Hell, our idiot coach had Lashoff in more offensive type settings than Smitty, who's supposed to be a future PP QB. Maybe it's a reverse psychology kind of thing, to scare him into it.

Lolwut?

 

[LastWordArmy]

I can't remember the last time they were this bad. It's like 2008 Michigan football all over again. Holland should resign if they don't make the playoffs.

Yes, Holland should resign after giving you playoffs for how many years and how many cups? Please. Take a breath and realize that we have tons of injuries, it is only game 3, and stop, just stop.

 

[Eye of Ra]

when he laid down the in crease and stayed there while the Wings had the puck.

that was hilarious.

 

[Xvash2]

Kyle Quincey is so bad that after 3 games he is a -4. Detroit has had 11 goals scored against them, with 6 being on the powerplay, which means Quincey has been on the ice for nearly every even-strength goal against. In total, he has been on the ice for 6 of our 11 goals against, over half, which is pretty impressive for someone who, by all averages should be out for only 1/3rd of all goals against.

 

[LastWordArmy]

that was hilarious.

Was he being held down or did he just lay there? LOL I never see that before?

 

[RedMenace]

Kyle Quincey is so bad that after 3 games he is a -4. Detroit has had 11 goals scored against them, with 6 being on the powerplay, which means Quincey has been on the ice for nearly every even-strength goal against. In total, he has been on the ice for 6 of our 11 goals against, over half, which is pretty impressive for someone who, by all averages should be out for only 1/3rd of all goals against.

And Smith is only -2, which means Quincey is bad with or without Smith.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

How do you think Lehtonen did for the Stars?


I think he also was their difference maker. If I compare this game to the St Louis game, I don't see the Wings on their heels the entire game like they were against St. Louis. They spent almost no time in the attacking zone against STL. In tonight's game, I felt that they generated several great opportunities but failed to convert. They had points in the game where they maintained pressure.

Lehtonen had some key saves for Dallas but other than a few opportunities it didn't seem like the Wings could generate much of anything. It reminded me a lot of their series against Nashville last year.

 

[Fugu]

Yep. So far the Wings D has allowed 36 SOG by St Louis, 33 by C-bus, and 32 by Dallas. Granted, the Wings were able to outshoot both the Jackets and the Stars, but those are still high SOG allowed #'s against average to possibly below average offenses (C-bus anyway). I'm not the first to say it, but what happens when Detroit plays the teams with elite offensive talent on multiple lines? Could be seeing 50+ shots allowed which is going to wear Jimmy out.

The offense needs to start sustaining pressure in the offensive zone, and the D better improve on clearing the puck out, or the long season will continue.

Just clarifying that the kind of defense (and you may be saying exactly that) that suppresses SOGs is a team defense. If we're no longer a puck possession team, you can't blame the defenders for the higher SOG rate. That means the forwards aren't getting to the puck and hanging on to it either.

No, it's more a question of who would you put out there? I don't like the idea of an all rookie pairing with Smith-Lashoff, and pairing him with either of White or CC just seems to be more of what they're trying. That leaves Kronner or Huskins. I'd be curious to see Smith with Kronner, but then you're really throwing the kid to the wolves. Huskins might not be so bad.

Lolwut?

Maybe I was seeing things, but Lashoff was out with Kronwall? Top pairing? Greater offensive threat?

Then again, checking the TOI/gm, Smitty was second of the D at close to 21 and Kronner led at 25+. Smitty was getting more IT with Dats and Z as Babs starting mixing things up a bit in the third.

 

[Bench]

Love Brunner. Good nose for the net

Be nice, Fugu.

 

[Bench]

Lehtonen had some key saves for Dallas but other than a few opportunities it didn't seem like the Wings could generate much of anything. It reminded me a lot of their series against Nashville last year.

Most of those saves were routine for a guy like Lehts. He's a big boy, never misses the easy ones, has excellent rebound control, so you have to make him scramble a little, block his vision, or pop in rebounds.

Sounds like somebody else...

 

[HTT3*]

Kyle Quincey is so bad that after 3 games he is a -4. Detroit has had 11 goals scored against them, with 6 being on the powerplay, which means Quincey has been on the ice for nearly every even-strength goal against. In total, he has been on the ice for 6 of our 11 goals against, over half, which is pretty impressive for someone who, by all averages should be out for only 1/3rd of all goals against.

Yep, and Howard was on the ice for all 11 of them too... Guess that means Howard sucks and should be traded

Or maybe Monster was on the ice for one of them because Howard was pulled...

Wings scored a whopping 4 goals since the start of the season