GDT: Game 3 - CBJ (0-2-0) vs BUF (2-0-0) - October 7, 7pm

[thebus88]

You’ve been celebrating Korpi’s first win too hard with liquor ?

100% CBD

 

[majormajor]

French hockey fan coming in peace..I use to watch every game played by follow countrymen in addition to my Stars and Habs
Be sure I will eat a lot of Columbus hockey as Tex is the best talent French Hochey has ever generated

I wonder why he doesn't play center, he could be your 2C
He is more a playmaker than a sniper and shows great chemistry with Bjorkstrand
What do you think about a second line Bemstrom-Texier-Bjorkstrand ?

Bienvenue DangeRouss!

Yes, Texier would probably be our 2C and be good at it, and I think he'll eventually have that job, or maybe #1C! The coach is already planning on transitioning Texier to center, but it's a long term plan. For now Texier is very effective in the corners, and not having a center's defensive responsibilities gives him more freedom to focus on scoring. One step at a time. The line from last night with Texier - Wennberg - Bjorkstrand has Wennberg covering which lets Texier and Bjorkstrand go wild on offense. Maybe in a year or so we'll see Bemstrom - Texier - Bjorkstrand. I think we're all still waiting to see if Bemstrom is ready.

*language note - "used to" is past tense, I think you meant to say that you "usually" watch every game. No big deal.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not sure about this, my opinion is 1) we pay Foligno to much for his production and 2) when I look down the list of NHL Captains I think I would trade Nick for any of the others.

For McDavid? Really?

Foligno might be a bit overpaid. I'm not sure and I don't care, he's integral to the team in too many ways for it to matter.

But on your second point, I don't believe you are actually looking through all the other captains. There's plenty that are overpaid and over the hill. The wheels have fallen off for Andy Greene, and appear to be coming off for Getzlaf, Benn, and Koivu. There's contracts that are much worse than Foligno's.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

If anyone wants to complain about Korpisalo right now, go look at Bob's stats. Then go turn on the Hurricanes/Panthers game on NHL.tv and remember the Panthers are paying him 11.5 million straight cash money for this season.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

For McDavid? Really?

Foligno might be a bit overpaid. I'm not sure and I don't care, he's integral to the team in too many ways for it to matter.

But on your second point, I don't believe you are actually looking through all the other captains. There's plenty that are overpaid and over the hill. The wheels have fallen off for Andy Greene, and appear to be coming off for Getzlaf, Benn, and Koivu. There's contracts that are much worse than Foligno's.

At this point I think Seth Jones should be the C, we will go as far as his leadership takes us and that role would be good for his growth. You are right that we are a very young team, but I think it is time that Jones has a role in setting the expectations for the team and other players. This is just my opinion, but to support it I can think of many companies and organizations that I have been a part of where results didn't really occur until the right person was in charge. What is similar between the people on the Captains list and Jones? The Captain is generally the teams best player and on ice leader. I appreciate what Nick has done in the past but I don't want his Captaincy to impede us from moving forward.

 

[majormajor]

At this point I think Seth Jones should be the C, we will go as far as his leadership takes us and that role would be good for his growth. You are right that we are a very young team, but I think it is time that Jones has a role in setting the expectations for the team and other players. This is just my opinion, but to support it I can think of many companies and organizations that I have been a part of where results didn't really occur until the right person was in charge. What is similar between the people on the Captains list and Jones? The Captain is generally the teams best player and on ice leader. I appreciate what Nick has done in the past but I don't want his Captaincy to impede us from moving forward or possibly even moving him.

It's a tough convo because a lot of the captaincy is based on relational and "in the room" stuff we can't see. Then on the ice, I tend to think of someone who can alter momentum as the ideal one to wear the "C". That's often the best player but I don't think it has to be. Foligno is not half the talent but he does have that ability to make a play / hit / fight and change the dynamics of a game.

I know a lot of clubs have just given it to the top player, but honestly I don't like the idea of giving the "C" to a guy just because he is the best. I want a guy to be a top tier leader first. I think Jones can get there but he's not there yet.

 

[MoeBartoli]

To award the C to a player simply because he's the best player is misguided. The player certainly needs to be an on-ice contributor, but more importantly he must be respected and willing to lead which includes reinforcing the coach's message while also having the strength to privately challenge the coach when he feels that message merits reconsideration.

For the critics of Foligno as captain, I'd be curious to know the attributes you feel he lacks.

 

[Monstershockey]

Sure, in terms of level of players I would too. It’s not exactly a hot take that you would trade Nick for McDavid, Eichel, Barkov, Stamkos, etc.

Nick is still a productive enough player so that his contract isn’t an anchor, as we saw last night. The difference in level of production compared to his salary is mostly made up by his leadership and ability to lead and teach young teams. Is he overpaid by a million? Sure. But would we be better off if he just wasn’t on the team? I highly doubt it.

The Monsters had the same thing with Ryan Craig. He wasn't the best player on the team, but every player looked up to him and listened to him. You really don't realize what these kind of guys bring to the team until they're gone.

 

[Viqsi]

To award the C to a player simply because he's the best player is misguided. The player certainly needs to be an on-ice contributor, but more importantly he must be respected and willing to lead which includes reinforcing the coach's message while also having the strength to privately challenge the coach when he feels that message merits reconsideration.

For the critics of Foligno as captain, I'd be curious to know the attributes you feel he lacks.

My suspicion is that it's based on presumptions and/or misinterpretation w/r/t the concept of "leading by example" - i.e. a theory that one does not learn how to score from what Foligno does because Foligno doesn't score often enough, or something. Basically, basing one's judgement overmuch on what little we can actually easily see.

 

[JacketFanInFL]

I'm pretty sure if his name was Korpisalov, he would have said "Korpisalov is below average, get over it."

Yeah, that threw me too. Not sure what his race or nationality has to do with a statistical fact, that he is below average. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

My suspicion is that it's based on presumptions and/or misinterpretation w/r/t the concept of "leading by example" - i.e. a theory that one does not learn how to score from what Foligno does because Foligno doesn't score often enough, or something. Basically, basing one's judgement overmuch on what little we can actually easily see.

No thats not it. Leading by example maybe the correct term.. but it is more intrinsic then that. Short & sweet, as a team Columbus will go as far as the talent of Seth Jones will take them, I don't want him to be the quiet leader in support of Foligno, I want him to say God damn it, pick up your play or get the **** off the ice, we need the Captain to not just "do Captain like administrative things", we need that spark to get the very most out of every player. Inherently I want the guys to say I want to play with or for Seth Jones, and I want Jones to know he is the one guiding the team. Challenging them to a higher level. I'm tired of the status quo.

Torts initially struggled giving the C to Foligno.. and there is no doubt that Nick has done a fine job to this point, but getting to the next level in my opinion will take leadership that demands and wills more from themselves and from their teammates. This fan doesn't want people to say, oh that's a nice team.. pretty good defense.. no offense to speak of.

 

[majormajor]

No thats not it. Leading by example maybe the correct term.. but it is more intrinsic then that. Short & sweet, as a team Columbus will go as far as the talent of Seth Jones will take them, I don't want him to be the quiet leader in support of Foligno, I want him to say God damn it, pick up your play or get the **** off the ice, we need the Captain to not just "do Captain like administrative things", we need that spark to get the very most out of every player. Inherently I want the guys to say I want to play with or for Seth Jones, and I want Jones to know he is the one guiding the team. Challenging them to a higher level. I'm tired of the status quo.

Torts initially struggled giving the C to Foligno.. and there is no doubt that Nick has done a fine job to this point, but getting to the next level in my opinion will take leadership that demands and wills more from themselves and from their teammates. This fan doesn't want people to say, oh that's a nice team.. pretty good defense.. no offense to speak of.

That all sounds reasonable I just can't seem to square it with the personalities of the players as I know them.

Regarding Jones, you say "I want him to say God damn it, pick up your play or get the **** off the ice". I don't think the letter is going to swiftly make someone that kind of leader. They'd have to be heading in that direction anyways. Become the leader first, then get the "C". I don't think Jones is that far along, at least not yet. Regarding Foligno, yes Torts made a show of questioning his abilities to lead, but when the players came forward and said they wanted a captain, Foligno was already the leader. If I remember correctly he had a bit of a "good cop bad cop" routine with Dubi but Foligno was the guy they wanted to have the "C".

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

20 years of history.. being a nice team. St Louis went from last to first, there is hope

 

[JacketsDavid]

I don't see Seth as being the guy yet (admittedly I'm not in the room but I could be wrong), much like I never thought Nash was worthy of the C.
Some teams (others have mentioned) do have there best player as the C, but if you're best player is not the Rah-Rah emotional leader and does not have a World Class Work Ethic then not sure if that's the guy you want leading your team.
Again maybe I have a bad read on Seth, but he seems more reserved.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

In an extreme hypothetical the C opened up, I'm pretty sure it would go to either Jones, Cam, or Jenner.

Jones because he's the emotional stability of the club and the way you want players to carry themselves on and off the ice. (not saying this isn't the case for the next two, but Jones is the definition of professional)

Cam due to longevity and he's been through it all with this team. He's one of the older guys now, and our best goal scorer, so I think he'd be worthy of it.

Jenner because he is the teams backbone and emotional leader. The kind of effort you want everyone to play with.

I'm not worried about it though. Foligno is the deserving C until his time here is up.

 

[majormajor]

In an extreme hypothetical the C opened up, I'm pretty sure it would go to either Jones, Cam, or Jenner.

A lot can change in a couple years, and I wouldn't rule out Andy getting the "C" in that hypothetical scenario. Jenner is more tenured but also more soft spoken.

 

[CBJ goalie]

If Derek Freaking McKenzie can be a captain.......

 

[KJ Dangler]

If Jones wants the C , he needs to play with more urgency . Some games he really brings it , and is absolutely noticeable , other nights he’s solid , but not being as impactful as he should . I don’t see why we’re having this conversation though when Foligno basically saved this team from starting the season 0-3, with a balls as big as this room type effort on that last shift

 

[majormajor]

If Jones wants the C , he needs to play with more urgency . Some games he really brings it , and is absolutely noticeable , other nights he’s solid , but not being as impactful as he should . I don’t see why we’re having this conversation though when Foligno basically saved this team from starting the season 0-3, with a balls as big as this room type effort on that last shift

I've basically accepted that a lot of folks are never going to be pleased with Foligno, no matter how heroic he is.

 

[Monstershockey]

I've basically accepted that a lot of folks are never going to be pleased with Foligno, no matter how heroic he is.

I have always liked Foligno. I really don't see anyone on this team that would step into his role and be as effective.

 

[We Want Ten]

I had some. It is rapidly vanishing. I am not yet to the point where I'm going to start demanding we get someone else immediately (despite what's been seen so far, it is nonetheless still early), but I find myself empathizing with folks who are doing so.

My faith in the rest of the team, however, remains strong.

I'm gonna give it a few games before I settle on an unwavering position, then hammer the boards with it regardless of final scores and stats.

Seriously though, I have no idea what I feel other than uneasy.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm gonna give it a few games before I settle on an unwavering position, then hammer the boards with it regardless of final scores and stats.

A tried and true method that has served many.

 

[Cowumbus]

It's a tough convo because a lot of the captaincy is based on relational and "in the room" stuff we can't see. Then on the ice, I tend to think of someone who can alter momentum as the ideal one to wear the "C". That's often the best player but I don't think it has to be. Foligno is not half the talent but he does have that ability to make a play / hit / fight and change the dynamics of a game.

I know a lot of clubs have just given it to the top player, but honestly I don't like the idea of giving the "C" to a guy just because he is the best. I want a guy to be a top tier leader first. I think Jones can get there but he's not there yet.

How can you say this, then this?

jones is already a leader (wears an A on his chest) and leads by example as our best player on the ice 99% of the time. To me it seems like the best of both worlds.

 

[Cowumbus]

To award the C to a player simply because he's the best player is misguided. The player certainly needs to be an on-ice contributor, but more importantly he must be respected and willing to lead which includes reinforcing the coach's message while also having the strength to privately challenge the coach when he feels that message merits reconsideration.

For the critics of Foligno as captain, I'd be curious to know the attributes you feel he lacks.

You could say the same thing about Seth Jones. What qualities does he not have that Foligno does have? Keep in mind Seth Jones value to this franchise and how much better he is. To me it seems like a no-brainer.

IMO I think people on this board tend to subconsciously think highly of Foligno because of the OT goal he scored vs Pittsburgh in the playoffs. If you take that away, and take away the captaincy, is he really worth the contract? Absolutely not. He’s gotten 50+ points 2x in his career, that’s it. His value is around 3.75-4 million a year, but we are paying him 5.5 until the age of 32. Like I said if you try to take off the homer glasses and look objectively, he’s really not that special. Sorry.

 

[majormajor]

You could say the same thing about Seth Jones. What qualities does he not have that Foligno does have? Keep in mind Seth Jones value to this franchise and how much better he is. To me it seems like a no-brainer.

How about

Experience.
Seth is still developing, we might be overburdening him when he's still trying to improve aspects of his game.
Seth gets emotionally down on himself at times (the entire middle of last year IIRC).
Seth has to play defense, he can't go seek out a hit to change momentum.
Seth can't use his fists to change momentum.

IMO I think people on this board tend to subconsciously think highly of Foligno because of the OT goal he scored vs Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

Were you out having a puff when this happened?



The 2017 goal is not even that high up there on my list for Foligno. I can vaguely remember other wins where Foligno flipped the game around with a big play / hit / fight.

If you take that away, and take away the captaincy, is he really worth the contract? Absolutely not. He’s gotten 50+ points 2x in his career, that’s it. His value is around 3.75-4 million a year, but we are paying him 5.5 until the age of 32. Like I said if you try to take off the homer glasses and look objectively, he’s really not that special. Sorry.

This is sloppy thinking. Contract is an entirely different question. You can have a bad contract and still be good at your job.