Pre-Game Talk: Game 2: Pens vs. Sens (Friday)

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't know if anyone watched the interviews from today (specifically Bylsma and Sid), but it seems like the lines aren't set in stone either direction. I think they will keep changing.

Sid HCDB

Edit: Go to about 3:15 for Dan talking about lines

I told you so.

 

[KIRK]

One quick point I wanted to make: I really feel like Sids vision is crap right now. He's having trouble along the boards and struggling on the dot. Maybe he just wants two guys who will be where he expects them to be 100% of the time until his vision and awareness is back to 100%.

Maybe. With the new lines, I'm sure Geno would appreciate having just one.

 

[KIRK]

I told you so.

C'mon Jaded, isn't that to be expected under the circumstances. Serious question: Going into this series, who did you see as a bigger threat to the Pens making the conference finals, the Senators or Bylsma?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

C'mon Jaded, isn't that to be expected under the circumstances. Serious question: Going into this series, who did you see as a bigger threat to the Pens making the conference finals, the Senators or Bylsma?

Neither. It was either the Crowd noise being too quiet in CEC or whether the other team would start hitting the Pens' players.

Because do not tell anyone, but that is the Pens' real weakness. The hittting thing. I hope that no one figures that out.

 

[KIRK]

Neither. It was either the Crowd noise being too quiet in CEC or whether the other team would start hitting the Pens' players.

Because do not tell anyone, but that is the Pens' real weakness. The hittting thing. I hope that no one figures that out.

Oh, bull****. It's the noise.

 

[Waffle Fries]

One quick point I wanted to make: I really feel like Sids vision is crap right now. He's having trouble along the boards and struggling on the dot. Maybe he just wants two guys who will be where he expects them to be 100% of the time until his vision and awareness is back to 100%.

I think Sid is having trouble seeing as well, but I think the change was more on Bylsma trying to get him going than Sid saying or wanting anything.

While on this topic, has there been any information on when he can take the cage off?

I never said Iggy on Geno's line was smart. Ive been with you guys on that for weeks. I'm fighting against he notion that Kunitz on Sids line is selfish or evil or bad for the team. They have to find a way to make BOTH lines work. Then I'll be happy.

The thing is, we are in a world where our top six wingers are Dupuis, Kunitz, Iginla and Neal.

It's not putting Kunitz with Sid that is bad for the team, it's putting Iggy with Malkin that is bad for the team.

Because I don't see Dan moving any of them from the top six, the lines that are best for the team are either:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Dupuis-Malkin-Neal

Honestly, I'd like to see the second option tried.

 

[IcedCapp]

I think Sid is having trouble seeing as well, but I think the change was more on Bylsma trying to get him going than Sid saying or wanting anything.

While on this topic, has there been any information on when he can take the cage off?



The thing is, we are in a world where our top six wingers are Dupuis, Kunitz, Iginla and Neal.

It's not putting Kunitz with Sid that is bad for the team, it's putting Iggy with Malkin that is bad for the team.

Because I don't see Dan moving any of them from the top six, the lines that are best for the team are either:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Dupuis-Malkin-Neal

Honestly, I'd like to see the second option tried.

Sid hinted before the playoffs started that if they were in the playoffs long enough the shield would eventually come off. That's all I've heard about it.

Regarding which is better, KCD + NMI or DCI + KMN, either way you're turning the Iginla line into a line that finds 95% of its success on the rush. So which one of Crosby/Dupuis or Malkin/Neal would you prefer to be a rushed-based line?

 

[KIRK]

Sid hinted before the playoffs started that if they were in the playoffs long enough the shield would eventually come off. That's all I've heard about it.

Regarding which is better, KCD + NMI or DCI + KMN, either way you're turning the Iginla line into a line that finds 95% of its success on the rush. So which one of Crosby/Dupuis or Malkin/Neal would you prefer to be a rushed-based line?

It's a little more complicated than that. The question isn't whether I'd rather have Kunitz with Sid and Duper or Geno and Neal, although you continue to insist otherwise. Here's the real question in Bylsma's mind: If Iginla MUST be in the top six, then what should the lines be?

If you still want to insist that it's better to go with KCD + NMI, then by all means do. But, don't act insulted or cry conspiracy because there are some people here who deign to think that the gap between KCD versus KMN is smaller than DCI versus NMI.

Personally, I think both options suck. And, my thinking that one sucks less is just an evaluation of two unpleasant options that, if anything, are an indictment of Bylsma as a bench boss above all else.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Sid hinted before the playoffs started that if they were in the playoffs long enough the shield would eventually come off. That's all I've heard about it.

Regarding which is better, KCD + NMI or DCI + KMN, either way you're turning the Iginla line into a line that finds 95% of its success on the rush. So which one of Crosby/Dupuis or Malkin/Neal would you prefer to be a rushed-based line?

Neither

But I think a DCI line has a better chance at having extended time in the offensive zone than the NMI line does.

I just don't see why Dan won't even try Dupuis with Malkin and Neal. I really, really want to see Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla get a few shifts together.

And another reason I really don't want the NMI line together is that for all the *****ing everyone has been doing about Iggy, Neal has been just as bad, if not worse lately. Having the two wingers struggling the most in our top six play on the same line just seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[KIRK]

I think Sid is having trouble seeing as well, but I think the change was more on Bylsma trying to get him going than Sid saying or wanting anything.

While on this topic, has there been any information on when he can take the cage off?



The thing is, we are in a world where our top six wingers are Dupuis, Kunitz, Iginla and Neal.

It's not putting Kunitz with Sid that is bad for the team, it's putting Iggy with Malkin that is bad for the team.

Because I don't see Dan moving any of them from the top six, the lines that are best for the team are either:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Dupuis-Malkin-Neal

Honestly, I'd like to see the second option tried.

It's not even necessarily putting Iggy with Malkin that is bad for the team. Hey, Malkin played a game with Duper on LW and Iggy on RW. They looked really good together.

The problem is putting Iggy with Malkin AND Neal. It's a problem for the same reason Tangradi and several others didn't work there. Can't win enough battles. Can't read off those two, as a tandem, well. A step slow for everything pretty much.

When Malkin is out there, he needs what most loosely call a puck retriever. A Kunitz, a Talbot, a Malone, a Morrow, even a Bennett. It might not be the perfect retriever, but he needs ONE.

So, if Malkin must play with Neal, then the other guy must be a puck retriever. If not, then Malkin is not an asset for your team. At best, he'll score one and his line won't be a total disaster defensively and you might get an offensive shift a period with sustained zone time.

 

[KIRK]

Neither

But I think a DCI line has a better chance at having extended time in the offensive zone than the NMI line does.

I just don't see why Dan won't even try Dupuis with Malkin and Neal. I really, really want to see Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla get a few shifts together.

And another reason I really don't want the NMI line together is that for all the *****ing everyone has been doing about Iggy, Neal has been just as bad, if not worse lately. Having the two wingers struggling the most in our top six play on the same line just seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

THAT is the real problem as I just said. It's not Iggy with Malkin per se. It's how Iggy meshes with Malkin and Neal, given how those two play and what they need in a complement.

EDIT: Here's my other concern . . . Neal will creep to the right. I don't care if his position is LW. Whether he's played there or Iggy, instinct pulls you right, however slightly. BOTH MUST PLAY RW.

 

[IcedCapp]

It's a little more complicated than that. The question isn't whether I'd rather have Kunitz with Sid and Duper or Geno and Neal, although you continue to insist otherwise. Here's the real question in Bylsma's mind: If Iginla MUST be in the top six, then what should the lines be?

If you still want to insist that it's better to go with KCD + NMI, then by all means do. But, don't act insulted or cry conspiracy because there are some people here who deign to think that the gap between KCD versus KMN is smaller than DCI versus NMI.

Personally, I think both options suck. And, my thinking that one sucks less is just an evaluation of two unpleasant options that, if anything, are an indictment of Bylsma as a bench boss above all else.

Neither

But I think a DCI line has a better chance at having extended time in the offensive zone than the NMI line does.

I just don't see why Dan won't even try Dupuis with Malkin and Neal. I really, really want to see Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla get a few shifts together.

And another reason I really don't want the NMI line together is that for all the *****ing everyone has been doing about Iggy, Neal has been just as bad, if not worse lately. Having the two wingers struggling the most in our top six play on the same line just seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I still think the problem isn't that Iginla is in the top-6 it's that Iginla AND Dupuis are in the top-6. Just think, if you pull ONE of them out of the top-6, you can make 2 perfect, dominant, balanced lines. Dupuis is a legitimate top-6 player, but he can't be a 2nd wheel. Neither can Iggy. Nor Neal. We just need another Kuntitz.

Kunitz - Crosby - Kunitz!!!!!!!!

 

[Waffle Fries]

It's not even necessarily putting Iggy with Malkin that is bad for the team. Hey, Malkin played a game with Duper on LW and Iggy on RW. They looked really good together.

The problem is putting Iggy with Malkin AND Neal. It's a problem for the same reason Tangradi and several others didn't work there. Can't win enough battles. Can't read off those two, as a tandem, well. A step slow for everything pretty much.

When Malkin is out there, he needs what most loosely call a puck retriever. A Kunitz, a Talbot, a Malone, a Morrow, even a Bennett. It might not be the perfect retriever, but he needs ONE.

So, if Malkin must play with Neal, then the other guy must be a puck retriever. If not, then Malkin is not an asset for your team. At best, he'll score one and his line won't be a total disaster defensively and you might get an offensive shift a period with sustained zone time.

I agree and know this fully. I just said 'with Malkin' because I figured it was a given that Malkin-Neal are a packaged deal

 

[MrBurghundy]

I still think the problem isn't that Iginla is in the top-6 it's that Iginla AND Dupuis are in the top-6. Just think, if you pull ONE of them out of the top-6, you can make 2 perfect, dominant, balanced lines. Dupuis is a legitimate top-6 player, but he can't be a 2nd wheel. Neither can Iggy. Nor Neal. We just need another Kuntitz.

Kunitz - Crosby - Kunitz!!!!!!!!

Man... we really need to clone Kunitz...

 

[KIRK]

I agree and know this fully. I just said 'with Malkin' because I figured it was a given that Malkin-Neal are a packaged deal

Geno must love his package deals. The guys he wants to keep go bye-bye. The guys he can live without are seen as irreplaceable.

 

[KIRK]

I still think the problem isn't that Iginla is in the top-6 it's that Iginla AND Dupuis are in the top-6. Just think, if you pull ONE of them out of the top-6, you can make 2 perfect, dominant, balanced lines. Dupuis is a legitimate top-6 player, but he can't be a 2nd wheel. Neither can Iggy. Nor Neal. We just need another Kuntitz.

Kunitz - Crosby - Kunitz!!!!!!!!

Would you be o'k with Duper-Geno-Neal? Don't love Duper with Geno, but I think he'd be o'k there. Different player than he was 4 years ago when that was tried.

As I said, I look at this roster, and the first rule needs to be Iggy AND Neal both must play RW. However the lines shake out from there, within reason, worries me a lot less than those two playing on the same line, especially with Malkin.

 

[RH710]

What's everyone's take on moving Iggy to the third line while plugging in bennet for malkin's line leaving neal as the RW?

 

[IcedCapp]

Would you be o'k with Duper-Geno-Neal? Don't love Duper with Geno, but I think he'd be o'k there. Different player than he was 4 years ago when that was tried.

As I said, I look at this roster, and the first rule needs to be Iggy AND Neal both must play RW. However the lines shake out from there, within reason, worries me a lot less than those two playing on the same line, especially with Malkin.

See, I think Dupuis lacks the Jam to be the Jam carrier on a line. I think it would suffer the same way DCI suffers, ya know?

 

[Waffle Fries]

What's everyone's take on moving Iggy to the third line while plugging in bennet for malkin's line leaving neal as the RW?

While I know a lot of people disagree, I don't think Iggy should be moved to the third line. I think if given more than 2.5 games together, he and Sid could gel really well together (especially if Kunitz was on the LW).

This whole moving him out of the top six thing seems like a gross overreaction. If we moved players out of the top six this easy, Neal would have been put on the third a long time ago.

Also the concept that he should be replaced with Bennett/Jokinen/Morrow seems hypocritical. People want to kick Iggy out because of his poor 5 on 5 play, but so far in these playoffs none of the other three have been particularly good in those situations either.

I DO like Bennett with Malkin and Neal though. I'm also still obsessed with how great Dupuis and Morrow were together when everyone was injured, and thus I want them to be on the third line.

 

[IcedCapp]

by the way, Kirk, this is why I wanted Morrow left on the Malkin line for more than 1 game during the regular season, just to see if that line worked. Heck, the next game was against the Islanders, right? Playoff preview. Could have been useful information.

 

[Shady Machine]

Okay, I'll lie to myself, but I'll hate myself for it in the morning.

Are you a Malkin apologist? You yourself just said you don't like Iggy with Geno. So what does that make you?

 

[RH710]

While I know a lot of people disagree, I don't think Iggy should be moved to the third line. I think if given more than 2.5 games together, he and Sid could gel really well together (especially if Kunitz was on the LW).

This whole moving him out of the top six thing seems like a gross overreaction. If we moved players out of the top six this easy, Neal would have been put on the third a long time ago.

Also the concept that he should be replaced with Bennett/Jokinen/Morrow seems hypocritical. People want to kick Iggy out because of his poor 5 on 5 play, but so far in these playoffs none of the other three have been particularly good in those situations either.

I DO like Bennett with Malkin and Neal though. I'm also still obsessed with how great Dupuis and Morrow were together when everyone was injured, and thus I want them to be on the third line.

I absolutely loved Morrow and Dupuis together. I'm on the fence about everything really. There are just too many options. A good problem to have but still it hurts my brain constantly waffling with line ideas. I miss Jokinen and I think we need him for face-offs but I don't know where to plug him in because Vitale is untouchable right now and imo rightly so.

 

[KIRK]

by the way, Kirk, this is why I wanted Morrow left on the Malkin line for more than 1 game during the regular season, just to see if that line worked. Heck, the next game was against the Islanders, right? Playoff preview. Could have been useful information.

Preaching to the choir on that one.

Heck, Bennett before that played two games there, between Geno's concussion return and the shoulder injury. Against Philly and Toronto, teams against which Geno struggled even last year with Kunitz. And, in those two games he looked like Geno.

That's why I was complaining about the change. Not because I've got a problem with KCD. BUT, because when he puts that line together, he deems in the process that what's 'right' for Iginla in that event matters far more than what's 'good' for Geno (and, unfortunately, what's 'good' for Geno matters just a little more in terms of the Pens cup aspirations).

 

[KIRK]

Are you a Malkin apologist? You yourself just said you don't like Iggy with Geno. So what does that make you?

Nuts?

 

[KIRK]

See, I think Dupuis lacks the Jam to be the Jam carrier on a line. I think it would suffer the same way DCI suffers, ya know?

He probably does lack it. But, I saw Duper-Geno-Iggy for a game. Iggy's best game 5 on 5, and Duper had the jam in that one. Not ideal, but better than what we're going to get.