GDT: Game 2 - Isles @ Pens - 7:30 PM ET - Everyone is a Game Time Decision

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KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Certain people on this board made up their minds before the season started that the mix was bad and the Penguins wouldn't win this year. Every time something turns negative, they speak the loudest. Curiously, they're much quieter when the Penguins are rolling like they were in the aftermath of the injuries to Malkin and Kapanen.

Curious narrative you're pushing, but hey no surprise under the circumstances.

I, for one, liked how the Pens were playing up until those 5 periods against Boston and New York. Thought they were in a really good place and like other pessimists spoke optimistically, despite lingering questions about the mix, about the opportunity that was there.

Then, the 5 periods in Boston and New York happened, and the question was how they would recover.

They never fully did. The bad habits were there, along with the other question marks, and it was obfuscated by a bottom feeder heavy schedule.

But, if it makes the kool aid taste better with your narrative, then by all means, sip away. But, don't blame other people or otherwise revise history because the taste went sour.
 
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KIRK

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And if there is any "fight", it would be nice if it was someone other than Sid, Letang or Geno losing their minds.

I told @ColePens today the demarcation point for the team was the Cole trade. Look, the guy isn't the end all be all, but on this team, THAT was the type of guy who would give that 'fight' you mention. Horny. Bones. I get it, sometimes you move on, but they never replaced the fight those guys brought. Instead, you got a healthy dosage of vanilla and vanilla and vanilla.

But, yeah, we're all Pens fans, so fingers crossed there's some fight.

EDIT: I thought Sid and Tanger played great in game one. so I'm with you on that part too.
 
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DesertedPenguin

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Curious narrative you're pushing, but hey no surprise under the circumstances.

I, for one, liked how the Pens were playing up until those 5 periods against Boston and New York. Thought they were in a really good place and like other pessimists spoke optimistically, despite lingering questions about the mix, about the opportunity that was there.

Then, the 5 periods in Boston and New York happened, and the question was how they would recover.

They never fully did. The bad habits were there, along with the other question marks, and it was obfuscated by a bottom feeder heavy schedule.

But, if it makes the kool aid taste better with your narrative, then by all means, sip away. But, don't blame other people or otherwise revise history because the taste went sour.
Why do those five periods against Boston and New York matter more than the 6 periods later that month when they shut out Boston and Washington?
 

KIRK

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I'm not saying it's a lack of character. I'm just saying I don't know if they have the right mix of players that you need in the playoffs.

Guess we'll see tonight. Hopefully they prove me wrong. I'd rather be wrong and watch them go on to win the Cup than be right and watch them flame out like a wet fart in 4 or 5 games.

That's the funny thing in all of this. These people think we're actively rooting against the team or something like that when we question the mix. Truth is, the Pens went from being faster than everyone and having plenty of warriors in 2017 to being smaller but no longer faster than everyone and vanilla in 2021, and pointing that out doesn't make one less of a Pens fan.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
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EDIT: I thought Sid and Tanger played great in game one. so I'm with you on that part too.

This is almost the more depressing part of losing Game 1. Our two best players dressed actually had phenomenal games. Typically in recent memory when the Pens lose or look off, it's because the big boys didn't bring their best. Game 1, they did and it still wasn't enough.

Granted, Jarry seemed to be using Matt Murray's old glove. But at the same time, it's a bit discouraging that Sid and Tanger can look so good and it's still not enough to win. How much more can you expect from either guy if *that* wasn't good enough?
 
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Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
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This thread….


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Ghouls....
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KIRK

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Why do those five periods against Boston and New York matter more than the 6 periods later that month when they shut out Boston and Washington?

The 5 periods came after the shut out of Boston, and for those two games against the Caps that should've been a portend of something good, there were a lot of uninspired efforts against bottom feeders where the team's bad habits (not covering for pinching defenseman, duplication of coverage, etc) kept showing themselves.

I watched that 2016 team and with Malkin out KNEW what they could do when the playoffs started. I watched that 2017 team and saw/knew how that team was driven by Sid's and Geno's will for the B2B and the happy warriors and though maybe, if everything fell right, they had a chance to make a deep run in 2017 despite missing Letang (never expected the win like 2016).

This team doesn't have that vibe for me. For a brief moment, before those 5 periods in Boston and New York, it actually maybe had that 2017 vibe. But, after those 5 periods and seeing with few exception games little changed thereafter, that vibe went away.

Sorry, just how I feel. Wish I felt otherwise.

And, to be clear, I hope I'm 100% wrong in the end.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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This is almost the more depressing part of losing Game 1. Our two best players dressed actually had phenomenal games. Typically in recent memory when the Pens lose or look off, it's because the big boys didn't bring their best. Game 1, they did and it still wasn't enough.

Granted, Jarry seemed to be using Matt Murray's old glove. But at the same time, it's a bit discouraging that Sid and Tanger can look so good and it's still not enough to win. How much more can you expect from either guy if *that* wasn't good enough?

This is why I said I think the Pens can win tonight and win the series. The Islanders aren't a good team. They closed the season like crap. But, the lack of fight from the rest of them . . . man, even if Jarry had played well enough to win, even if they won, I wouldn't exactly be having 2016-2017 type feelings about this team.

**** . . . I was going to type you have no idea how wrong I want to be, but I think you actually do. :laugh:
 
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Pittsburgh1776

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Aug 9, 2010
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Read Rossi's article from Monday. He can skate in a straight line well, which is what you see in those video clips. But, the starting and stopping is bad. Changes of direction? Bad. Lateral movement? Didn't even try it.

But, does it really matter anyway . . . we both know how Sullivan will use him, and if you think it looked blah to bad in the last 4 games of the regular season against crap teams, imagine how it will look against the Isles.

And this is changing in 3 days? I just have to call BS on that idea; he’s been practicing with the intent of coming back which is what isn’t making sense to me. Seems like something that will keep him out a lot longer than anticipated.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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I don't think anyone wants the team to lose. Those of us that don't think they have what it takes anymore just see a worn out team that has way too much invested (cap as well as role) in older guys who simply can't do what they need to as top players making top dollars anymore in the playoffs. It happens.

Sure would be nice if Jake, Rust or McCann ever f***ing showed up though. That'd go a long way toward offsetting the detrimental effect of Geno missing games or Sid not being able to Superman this team through a series anymore.

-edit- They can absolutely win this series. Even with all their issues. They may be able to win two rounds because of the playoff format this year and how bad I think all the East teams are in the end.

They have zero chance of playing with, let alone beating, teams like Vegas, Colorado, Florida, Tampa, Minnesota, or probably Carolina. No idea what to think about Edmonton or Toronto.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Do people seriously think individuals would bother posting like thousands of times and discussing every single dusty crevice of this team on a daily basis just to be like... what... secret Capitals fans or something? The term "get a grip" applies both ways, here.

It's not even like we're saying the team is just plain awful from top to bottom with no redeeming qualities. It's just discussing *certain aspects* of the construction of the team, and wondering if that's something the Pens are missing to go on a deep playoff run.
 
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DesertedPenguin

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Mar 11, 2007
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That's the funny thing in all of this. These people think we're actively rooting against the team or something like that when we question the mix. Truth is, the Pens went from being faster than everyone and having plenty of warriors in 2017 to being smaller but no longer faster than everyone and vanilla in 2021, and pointing that out doesn't make one less of a Pens fan.
I just get tired of the same refrain being repeated, especially when there seems to be an unwillingness to point blame elsewhere.

The Guentzel-Malkin-Rust campaign. The notion that Sullivan had it out for Kapanen despite evidence to the contrary, as well as the ridiculous argument by some that Sullivan is anti-European. Your repeated assertion again in this thread that it is a given that Sullivan will mismanage Malkin whenever Geno returns. It all wears incredibly thin.

I don't think Sullivan is above reproach. He's too patient at times. I wish he'd exert more control over the special teams, though the power play has largely righted itself. I don't understand why he's allowed Vellucci to stick with the diamond formation on the PK. But I do think a lot of the stuff he's being criticized the loudest over is overrated. Line chemistry matters, but only to some degree. What's more likely, that Jeff Carter and Jared McCann suddenly can't play because Kasperi Kapanen knocked Freddy Gaudreau off their line? Or that they simply had a bad night for the first time in about a month?

I'm more apt to buying into the notion that the mix on this team is bad in terms of style of players. And that's blame that should be laid at the feet of Jim Rutherford. I know everyone likes to point to the clip from Pens TV of Sullivan saying, "I think he'll score goals for us" when they're talking about Jankowski, Rodrigues, etc., but Rutherford is the one who reduced the number of voices in the room and who made the decisions post-Stanley Cup wins to change the make-up of the team. Tom Wilson got in his head and he was chasing ghosts the rest of his tenure.

If there is a criticism of this team, it is that it has too many similar players. All of the defensemen are cut from the same cloth, with slightly varying skill sets (Dumoulin is more defensively responsible, Matheson is a better skater, etc.). That's on Rutherford, not Sullivan. That's a worthwhile discussion to me. Not whether Jason Zucker being on the second line with Malkin and Kapanen is going to tank the team's playoff chances. That's ridiculous hyperbole, and it gets old seeing it repeated day in and day out. What's more likely to tank this team's playoff chances are 1) Jarry falling apart; 2) The power play and penalty kill failing; 3) The inability to roll four lines, not just because of any mismatch in chemistry in Malkin and Zucker, but because Carter, McCann, Blueger, et al also go cold despite being in advantageous situations.

That's what bothers me and why I push back. Certain people on this board latch on to one singular notion and then beat it into a bloody pulp. Sports are a lot more nuanced than that.
 

BoysofWinter66871

Registered User
Jun 19, 2017
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I told @ColePens today the demarcation point for the team was the Cole trade. Look, the guy isn't the end all be all, but on this team, THAT was the type of guy who would give that 'fight' you mention. Horny. Bones. I get it, sometimes you move on, but they never replaced the fight those guys brought. Instead, you got a healthy dosage of vanilla and vanilla and vanilla.

But, yeah, we're all Pens fans, so fingers crossed there's some fight.

EDIT: I thought Sid and Tanger played great in game one. so I'm with you on that part too.
Since when did voicing critique of players become taboo? I wholly agree with you here.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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I just want to be entertained. I don't want to see the team sulk if they give up a goal or two. I don't want to see the team quit, again, if they start to lose the grip on the series. I want to see guys like Jake, Rust, and now McCann show up when it matters for the first time in years.

It's just boring watching a team spin its tires, go nowhere, and that will roll over dead at the drop of a hat with all predictability and certainty. Makes me want the team to start the firesale early. What's the difference between being a lottery team and losing in the 1st or 2nd round annually? It'd be one thing if this team was young and needed the experience to keep going the extra step toward the Cup, but this is a young man's game and the core ain't young anymore.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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It's not even like we're saying the team is just plain awful from top to bottom with no redeeming qualities. It's just discussing *certain aspects* of the construction of the team, and wondering if that's something the Pens are missing to go on a deep playoff run.

I mean... they're the Pittsburgh Penguins who I've been following since I was a small child and learned about what a joy the sport was. So of course I love many aspects of the team.

I thought we were all kinda past the point of having to re-assert our undying loyalty and adoration every day or whatever.
 
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