GDT: Game 13 | Stars @ Blue Jackets | 7:30 PM EST

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
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Is it the players or is it the system and the coaches?
Is both an option?

I am not a hockey system guru or even a semi-knowledgeable one. But it seems to me from what I read here, that once again the Jackets players and the coaches system are a mismatch. Maybe it is because Vincent was a 2 AM 10 or maybe it just takes time to get everyone on the same page. Or maybe it is exposing the inherent flaws in the way Jarmo has built the roster.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
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I have to hope that the system pretty much depends on the roster.

See what players are picked in the top 9 by Dallas, Washinghton of Trots, etc. Now imagine that we should play a similar style with our players. Sillinger and Chinakhov need a player like Voráček (or at least Dom), not Texier, a hit and run player. Besides, Yegor is more of a sniper.

Roslovic is inconsistent and still not ideal defensively (btw, Gaudreau is bad in defense too). Boone is a similar player to Tex, but even more vertical.

Teams like Tampa might have a 3rd line of Sillinger -- Jenner -- Texier (see Coleman - Gourde - Goodrow), but no more than that, there wouldn't be a single one of them in the top 6.

The team reminds me of CSKA Alexander Radulov when Dmitri Kvartalnov was the coach. "5 and 1/2" technical players on offense, other vertical, mobile defense. The only difference is that Kvartalov wanted that type of players, while Vincent had no influence on the roster. And then there's the Laine injury and the fact that Johnson still isn't physically ready. It is +2 vertical players.

So when you criticize the tactics, you have to first look at the players, the lines. I read a PLD interview where he said an interesting thing. They were specifically looking for players to play with Panarin. Dubois played with Russian wingers in juniors and very good, so they took advantage of that.

And still one, the team is too young.
The players they have would suggest a completely different systems approach. This team is playing to it's weaknesses instead of playing to it's strengths.
 

Napoli

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Oct 4, 2023
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Is it meaning Jarmo has built a young team that just needs to gain experience, and you want the new GM to be able to give himself all the credit? That's absolutely ridiculous.

It's just too bad Jarmo gave the NMC to Werenski and Gaudreau. And Severson's contract isn't ideal either.
Who's fault is it? He's been building this team for ten years and they are still no closer to looking like a professional team. You're blaming him for the bad contracts, so maybe he does deserve some blame now?

You can only blame the coaches for so long before you realize the roster construction is bad.
 

Marioesque

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Oct 7, 2021
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Who's fault is it? He's been building this team for ten years and they are still no closer to looking like a professional team. You're blaming him for the bad contracts, so maybe he does deserve some blame now?

You can only blame the coaches for so long before you realize the roster construction is bad.

They're the youngest team and improving. I don't know what other possible way there was for CBJ to build a competent team other than drafting and free agency. Not like we can get an expansion draft to load up.

They're not ready because the roster is new. It sounds like expectation was cup or bust with the youngest team?
 

Napoli

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They're the youngest team and improving. I don't know what other possible way there was for CBJ to build a competent team other than drafting and free agency. Not like we can get an expansion draft to load up.

They're not ready because the roster is new. It sounds like expectation was cup or bust with the youngest team?
Of course not.

I expect this team to suck but what's the justification for keeping Jarmo past this year?
 

VT

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The players they have would suggest a completely different systems approach. This team is playing to it's weaknesses instead of playing to it's strengths.
If I compare KHL teams Dynamo Moscow when Oleg Znarok was the coach and CSKA Moscow when Dmitri Kvartalnov was the coach with Columbus (similar teams) maybe it wouldn't be wrong to play aggressive forckecking all over the ice, including defense, fast transitioning to offense even, and now I don't know if I'm saying it right, shooting the puck into the OZ when teammates are on speed if necessary. Only problem is that those teams had great goalies (CSKA Sorokin). And we have Elvis and Martin. Plus they teams, especially Dynamo, had many experienced players, our team is a kindergarden.
 
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Forepar

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Nov 6, 2011
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Is it meaning Jarmo has built a young team that just needs to gain experience, and you want the new GM to be able to give himself all the credit? That's absolutely ridiculous.

It's just too bad Jarmo gave the NMC to Werenski and Gaudreau. And Severson's contract isn't ideal either.
“And Severson's contract isn't ideal either.”

You are the master of understatement!
 

Cheddarcheese

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Oct 24, 2023
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everyone needs to chill with gaudreau, poor guy is playing with roslovic ( a bottom 6 player ) and boone ( i love Boone but hes a 3line centre on any winning team )

this season isn't even about winning its about good habits and getting better
 
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KJ Dangler

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Oct 21, 2006
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Same garbage issues game after game. I like you Vincent but youve been doing some dumb shit
Keep in mind , he’s not concerned about wins and losses at this point, he trying to establish a culture , and identity with these players . If you really listen to his answers in the press conferences , he makes this clear . Tonight you could tell he was really disappointed in Zach.. he made it clear in the post game referring to veteran players . My guess is he’s referring to that brutal pinch that opened the floodgates .. he could also be referring to Gaudreau … neither player is remotely playing to their potential . Both are avoiding all contact, not battling or being difficult to play against .
 

Bobcat205

addicted to the grind
Sep 22, 2023
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My dad and I have made the observation that Zach is slowly turning into Seth Jones. He's not playing for the team, he's playing for himself. The amount of times i've seen him take a basic wrist shot into someone's legs instead of hitting the guy that's open in the opposite faceoff circle is innumerable.
 

ThirdPeriodTurtle

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Jul 13, 2022
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[Zach] The amount of times i've seen him take a basic wrist shot into someone's legs instead of hitting the guy that's open in the opposite faceoff circle is innumerable.
This. But it's not exactly new - he rarely passed to Laine in an open spot on the PP going back a few years. It just seems that lately all his shots get blocked (except the one Jenner redirected I guess). It's frustrating. Especially when Guddy has become the other way and the team benefits from it lol. And Zach's overall play is lacking and that puts him under the microscope even more.

Other than that I find the doom and gloom in this thread a bit... well, something. SOGs were 31 and 29, we had chances. Reading these comments you'd think we were pummelled 10-0 like the Sharks. If I remember right most folks were expecting a .500 season or a bit lower, and to my eyes the game against Dallas was pretty much on par for that kind of a season by a hockey team in the NHL.
 
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MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
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everyone needs to chill with gaudreau, poor guy is playing with roslovic ( a bottom 6 player ) and boone ( i love Boone but hes a 3line centre on any winning team )

this season isn't even about winning its about good habits and getting better
I agree, we need to get Boone away from Johnny……in order to help Boone. :sarcasm:
 

Seedtype

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Aug 16, 2009
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Ultimately the only thing that really bugged me about last night's game is that we clearly gave up in the last five minutes. It was only a two goal game, push it in front of the fans at least!

Dallas Stars are a good team though, I hope the young guys learned something from them. But I'm glad we're done facing them for the year.


One last thing, while I did griped about last night's game being ESPN+ only, the ESPN crew did do a good job, and it was easy to cancel the subscription the next morning. If I had more time to watch other hockey games I can definitely appreciate having ESPN+ regularly. Still, I wish there was a one game purchase option for fans who regularly rely on a RSN.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
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Of course not.

I expect this team to suck but what's the justification for keeping Jarmo past this year?
The justification is this:
1. He showed during 2013-2018 the ability to identify and acquire a talented core (Panarin, Jones, Werenski, PLD) capable of being a solid playoff team which looked like it would develop into a contender.

2. This current core (his second) is only 3 years in. This one looks better than the last. It's Gaudreau, Werenski, Laine, Jenner with Fantilli, Jiricek, Johnson, Marchenko. The latter are very young.

3. The key right now will be stability so that you can keep the players / talent that have been collected. Firing the coach (third this year) or firing the GM indicates a shake up and the players may want out. Also, if you fire the coach, I want to know who is currently available that you would immediately hire to do a better job. I want a name. To me, I don't see anyone out there.

Like it or not, Jarmo was given the greenlight to assemble another core which takes 3-5 years to become competitive. This is year 3 which indicates to me they should be close to competitive. That in my opinion is an 80 point finish. So we will see where they finish at the end of the year.

Personally, I think the team's PDO is low and will turn around. Unfortunately, the low PDO is happening while they have the easiest part of their schedule but this was expected given they hired a coach right before camp.
 
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Napoli

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Oct 4, 2023
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The justification is this:
1. He showed during 2013-2018 the ability to identify and acquire a talented core (Panarin, Jones, Werenski, PLD) capable of being a solid playoff team which looked like it would develop into a contender.

2. This current core (his second) is only 3 years in. This one looks better than the last. It's Gaudreau, Werenski, Laine, Jenner with Fantilli, Jiricek, Johnson, Marchenko. The latter are very young.

3. The key right now will be stability so that you can keep the players / talent that have been collected. Firing the coach (third this year) or firing the GM indicates a shake up and the players may want out. Also, if you fire the coach, I want to know who is currently available that you would immediately hire to do a better job. I want a name. To me, I don't see anyone out there.

Like it or not, Jarmo was given the greenlight to assemble another core which takes 3-5 years to become competitive. This is year 3 which indicates to me they should be close to competitive. That in my opinion is an 80 point finish. So we will see where they finish at the end of the year.

Personally, I think the team's PDO is low and will turn around. Unfortunately, the low PDO is happening while they have the easiest part of their schedule but this was expected given they hired a coach right before camp.
He has acquired some good players via trade, we all know his track record and its quite good.

However, the contracts given out have been pretty bad. Werenski isn't worth 9.5 million a year, he's not a horse that you can rely on and be your #1. He looks winded and lazy in his d zone. Say what you want about him recovering from a long term injury, he's always played like this in his own zone. The guy is an offense generating machine when he's on but has never impressed defensively.

Severson was a desperation signing to improve the inept defense. Jarmo is obsessed with "puck moving dmen" who don't actually play defense well. (I.e. Boqvist, Severson, Werenski.)

The Elvis contract was another huge blunder, 5 years to a goalie who had one good year? Now we're stuck with a guy who has no confidence or consistency.

The Elvis contract alone was enough to fire him but I'm sure ownership are already thinking about it since the results aren't there.

The previous core was a much better situation. Jones was a legit #1 dman who covered up SO many mistakes for this team. Part of the reason why so many people on this board think Werenski is so good is because they saw him paired with Jones every night. Seth let Zach do whatever he wanted offensively while Jones put out all the fires defensively. Now Werenski is tasked to do Jones' job and he's no where near the same level.

Bob as your goalie, nuff said. True #1, saved this team multiple nights.

Panarin- elite play driving winger. Carried that team offensively, I'm still not sure how he managed to do it. Johnny isn't producing the same kind of play that Panarin is.

PLD was never a legit #1 center but while he was here, he was damn close.

Im not convinced at all this "new core" is better. There's a bunch of young players who are struggling to look effective. This team is at least 2 years away from competing in the playoffs. Kj, Chinakhov, Fantilli, Marchenko all need to develop consistency.

I'm also not blaming Jarmo for those players wanting out of Columbus, those are things out of his control.

The question is, do you want Jarmo at the helm singning more potential mediocre to down right bad contracts for the rest of this rebuild? There's potential with this team because I can respect Jarmo's drafting ability but his contract signees are future land mines.

I'm not advocating to fire Vincent, he's stuck with a young team. Fire the person who put this roster out there.
 
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Cheddarcheese

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Oct 24, 2023
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He has acquired some good players via trade, we all know his track record and its quite good.

However, the contracts given out have been pretty bad. Werenski isn't worth 9.5 million a year, he's not a horse that you can rely on and be your #1. He looks winded and lazy in his d zone. Say what you want about him recovering from a long term injury, he's always played like this in his own zone. The guy is an offense generating machine when he's on but has never impressed defensively.

Severson was a desperation signing to improve the inept defense. Jarmo is obsessed with "puck moving dmen" who don't actually play defense well. (I.e. Boqvist, Severson, Werenski.)

The Elvis contract was another huge blunder, 5 years to a goalie who had one good year? Now we're stuck with a guy who has no confidence or consistency.

The Elvis contract alone was enough to fire him but I'm sure ownership are already thinking about it since the results aren't there.

The previous core was a much better situation. Jones was a legit #1 dman who covered up SO many mistakes for this team. Part of the reason why so many people on this board think Werenski is so good is because they saw him paired with Jones every night. Seth let Zach do whatever he wanted offensively while Jones put out all the fires defensively. Now Werenski is tasked to do Jones' job and he's no where near the same level.

Bob as your goalie, nuff said. True #1, saved this team multiple nights.

Panarin- elite play driving winger. Carried that team offensively, I'm still not sure how he managed to do it. Johnny isn't producing the same kind of play that Panarin is.

PLD was never a legit #1 center but while he was here, he was damn close.

Im not convinced at all this "new core" is better. There's a bunch of young players who are struggling to look effective. This team is at least 2 years away from competing in the playoffs. Kj, Chinakhov, Fantilli, Marchenko all need to develop consistency.

I'm also not blaming Jarmo for those players wanting out of Columbus, those are things out of his control.

The question is, do you want Jarmo at the helm singning more potential mediocre to down right bad contracts for the rest of this rebuild? There's potential with this team because I can respect Jarmo's drafting ability but his contract signees are future land mines.

I'm not advocating to fire Vincent, he's stuck with a young team. Fire the person who put this roster out there.
Elvis has been really good this year and its not fair to comment on his last year number the team in front of him was so shit it was embarrassing... and the new core is 100% better then the old core lol!!!! your saying jones is a true number one made me laugh he arguably has the worst contract in league.

Jarmo has done a fantastic job with this rebuild... 3 years and we prob have one of the most exciting futures.
 
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Napoli

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Elvis has been really good this year and its not fair to comment on his last year number the team in front of him was so shit it was embarrassing... and the new core is 100% better then the old core lol!!!! your saying jones is a true number one made me laugh he arguably has the worst contract in league.

Jarmo has done a fantastic job with this rebuild... 3 years and we prob have one of the most exciting futures.
Nah man.

The case is way too early to call on Elvis to be back or not. Jones was 100% a #1 dman on this team, regardless what his contract is now a days.

Feel free to make an actual argument though.
 
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