TSN: From @GagnonFrancois: Habs should consider trading core players.

[LaP]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

So when Price returns, does he really make up for all those holes in the lineup?

He did it last year and at the beginning of the year. Why would it be different when he comes back if he is 100%?

Generational talents do that to a team. Not just price.

 

[Runner77]

He did it last year and at the beginning of the year. Why would it be different when he comes back if he is 100%?

Generational talents do that to a team. Not just price.

I don't know that this is the same team anymore. There too many passengers and not sure these individuals would play up to their potential even if Price were back -- they are only the same individuals by name, some give the impression they don't want to be here anymore.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

How a team can be above average without an NHL goalie, without a 1C, without a 2D, with at best 3 top 6 forwards?

Galchenyuk would be our #1C with a decent coach, and that would give us 4 top6 players. Markov came into the season as a serviceable 2D and he'd be one in a good system.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Maybe we could get a package similar to what gauthier got for cammalleri?

Don't get your hopes up, Bergevin is like the fat girl at last call. Honestly I wouldn't trust the man to rebuild a sandcastle let alone the habs.

Gainey went after winners ... Bergevin goes after bargains and 4th liners but anyways to anwser the question. I would like to see the habs move DD, Plekanec, Flynn, DSP, Beaulieu, Markov, Emelin.

If by "winners" you mean hot garbage and mercenaries, than yes.

 

[pepperMonkey]

I don't have to make Plekanec look bad, he's doing a great job of that himself. it's just most of you, for some reason, refuse to acknowledge it.

I mean, how can we really discuss Plekanec when you make statements like

"he hasn't stopped producing"

I must live in an alternate universerve where Plekanec has has 2 ES goals in the last 35 games and 4 goals since October 20th

Im not inventing these numbers, I'm not painting them in any way, and this isn't a 5 or 10 game sample....I'll repeat, he's scored 4 goals since October 20th

At nearly 20 mins a game, playing with Pacioretty/Gallagher/Galchenyuk, on the PP, during 3 on 3 OT, etc....

Again, I'm not making these numbers up....

We sit here and rip into DD every 5 mins for less than that....

How you can sit here and tell me he's still producing, when the last 41 games (that's HALF A SEASON) say the opposite, is baffling to me.

Edit - it's not all that baffling really, he could scoreless the rest of the year, and no one would say anything.

Well, he never was a great goal scorer... on the other hand, DD has doubled that goal production during that time, lol. Yeah, our C's suck. Well, truthfully, you can't really rag on Pleks unless you rag on everyone. The whole team is sucking up all the air out of suckage right now.

 

[Poochie_D]

People might not agree but I would sell Pacioretty. He's been terrible since getting the C but his stats are still respectable and he would fetch a great return. I feel as though St. Louis would be such a great trading partner in this situation. Shattenkirk has been rumored to be shopped and would be a great pick up. Him and Patches have similar contracts and both are up at the end of next year. I'd offer something like:


Pacioretty
Markov/Emelin (based on what type of D they would want in return)
Weise (proven playoff performer, exactly the type of guy in the bottom 6 a blues team would need going in to the playoffs)

for

Stattenkirk
Fabbri

Maybe Habs add a pick but the unbias fan in me thinks this is close to fair value both ways.

 

[pepperMonkey]

People might not agree but I would sell Pacioretty. He's been terrible since getting the C but his stats are still respectable and he would fetch a great return. I feel as though St. Louis would be such a great trading partner in this situation. Shattenkirk has been rumored to be shopped and would be a great pick up. Him and Patches have similar contracts and both are up at the end of next year. I'd offer something like:


Pacioretty
Markov/Emelin (based on what type of D they would want in return)
Weise (proven playoff performer, exactly the type of guy in the bottom 6 a blues team would need going in to the playoffs)

for

Stattenkirk
Fabbri

Maybe Habs add a pick but the unbias fan in me thinks this is close to fair value both ways.

Not sure if you have noticed but the Habs are a pretty offensively starved team. So trade Patches...and who exactly is going to make up for his offence? And as we need to upgrade our offence...who exactly, on our team, is going to be an upgrade to Patches offence?

 

[Sorinth]

I don't have to make Plekanec look bad, he's doing a great job of that himself. it's just most of you, for some reason, refuse to acknowledge it.

I mean, how can we really discuss Plekanec when you make statements like

"he hasn't stopped producing"

I must live in an alternate universerve where Plekanec has has 2 ES goals in the last 35 games and 4 goals since October 20th

Im not inventing these numbers, I'm not painting them in any way, and this isn't a 5 or 10 game sample....I'll repeat, he's scored 4 goals since October 20th

At nearly 20 mins a game, playing with Pacioretty/Gallagher/Galchenyuk, on the PP, during 3 on 3 OT, etc....

Again, I'm not making these numbers up....

We sit here and rip into DD every 5 mins for less than that....

How you can sit here and tell me he's still producing, when the last 41 games (that's HALF A SEASON) say the opposite, is baffling to me.

Edit - it's not all that baffling really, he could scoreless the rest of the year, and no one would say anything.

Is he on a cold streak, yes absolutely. But why are you excluding the first 10 games?

Do I expect more than 24 points in 41 games, yeah, but he's currently has 0 points in 5 games, so before this current cold streak he had 24 points in 36 games which is a 55 point pace which is what's been producing pretty much every year. So seriously is this whole no longer producing based on a 5 game cold streak?

You can't look at just the cold streaks or just the hot streaks to evaluate a player.

 

[OldCraig71]

Nobody will be dealt because Carey Price is injured. If he was healthy we would be a 110 point team, signed Mark and Michel.

 

[Poochie_D]

Not sure if you have noticed but the Habs are a pretty offensively starved team. So trade Patches...and who exactly is going to make up for his offence? And as we need to upgrade our offence...who exactly, on our team, is going to be an upgrade to Patches offence?

I understand that. This season is a wash. So hopefully finish with a top 5 pick. Go in to the summer and bolster the offense through free agency/other trades. The trade I proposed solidifies the D with a good, young, top 3 and we pick up a young player ready for the NHL with tons of potential. We also shed considerable salary.

 

[LePoche69]

Galchenyuk would be our #1C with a decent coach, and that would give us 4 top6 players. Markov came into the season as a serviceable 2D and he'd be one in a good system.

I'm not saying you're totaly wrong, but everything you wrote here is at best debatable. It is actually such overestimating of players that lead the Habs where they are right now.

I like Galchenyuk, but stating he would be a 1C doesn't mean he's a 1C. I do think Therrien isn't the best coach for developping a player like Galchenyuk, but still, it remains to be seen if Galchenyuk has what it takes to be a 1C. Up until now, he still hasn't shown enough vision or passing skill to be "an above average team's 1C". His decision making with the puck right now, no matter how he's used, isn't 1C caliber. We should really stop stating that Galchenyuk IS what we WISH him to be. He's still young and his decision making might developp, but it is not 1C right now.

About Markov, it is irrelevant to say he was a serviceable 2D at the start of the season. He isn't one right now. And he's old enough for us to realistic think he won't go back in time to re-become one.

So with all that in mind, I'm still confuse as to how you could state that Habs are an above average team without Price.

 

[LePoche69]

Is he on a cold streak, yes absolutely. But why are you excluding the first 10 games?

Do I expect more than 24 points in 41 games, yeah, but he's currently has 0 points in 5 games, so before this current cold streak he had 24 points in 36 games which is a 55 point pace which is what's been producing pretty much every year. So seriously is this whole no longer producing based on a 5 game cold streak?

You can't look at just the cold streaks or just the hot streaks to evaluate a player.

I totaly agree with you. But I would add that you can't look only at stats either.

No matter how Plek performs stats wise, he can't be confused with a #1 C. He's not enough of a difference maker, and doesn't make players around him look better. He never showed any trend of producing big goals when it counts, and can't change the makeup of a game with any particular aspect of his game. And moreover, this year (maybe an off year, indeed), he's not even above average defensively. His shifts on the PK could be replace by another player without too much difficulty.

 

[417]

Is he on a cold streak, yes absolutely. But why are you excluding the first 10 games?

Do I expect more than 24 points in 41 games, yeah, but he's currently has 0 points in 5 games, so before this current cold streak he had 24 points in 36 games which is a 55 point pace which is what's been producing pretty much every year. So seriously is this whole no longer producing based on a 5 game cold streak?

You can't look at just the cold streaks or just the hot streaks to evaluate a player.

Because as I said, I think a 41 game sample (which amounts to half a year) is more indicative of a 9 game sample (he had 10pts in his first 9 games), especially one at the beginning of the year.

Anyways, this is getting redundant, i'll just accept that we can't hold Plekanec to the same standards as we do Price or Subban or Pacioretty.

Our levels of expectations with Plekanec fall in line with what we expect out of Torrey Mitchell apparently

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Sell eller for whatever you can. A 7th if need be.

His AAV is $3.5 million for the next two years. However, he is owed $9 million in actual salary over this period.

$9 million ought to cover all of MT's extension plus a fair portion of Bergevin's salary. Eller's production can be replaced by a minimum contract player.

 

[Sorinth]

I totaly agree with you. But I would add that you can't look only at stats either.

No matter how Plek performs stats wise, he can't be confused with a #1 C. He's not enough of a difference maker, and doesn't make players around him look better. He never showed any trend of producing big goals when it counts, and can't change the makeup of a game with any particular aspect of his game. And moreover, this year (maybe an off year, indeed), he's not even above average defensively. His shifts on the PK could be replace by another player without too much difficulty.

Agreed it's not all about stats, but what you consider the threshold of a #1 C and what I consider the threshold of a #1 C is probably not the same.

To me he's a #1 C if he's one of the 30 best centers, others will say he has to be top-10 or top-15 to be a "real" #1 C or have some subjective quality like score big goals or make his teammates better. I would probably rank Plekanec somewhere around 25-30, but I haven't gone through the exercise of ranking everyone. So that means he is a #1 C, just not a good #1C.

But regardless of whether he is or isn't a #1 C, the decision to trade him or keep him is based on the direction of the team and what we can get for him. If we can get a young stud like the Forsberg for Erat trade then I'm all for trading, if we plan on tanking for several years then yeah trade him while he still has good value. If we are hoping to rebound and contend as early as next year and the only offers are crappy then keep him.

Because as I said, I think a 41 game sample (which amounts to half a year) is more indicative of a 9 game sample (he had 10pts in his first 9 games), especially one at the beginning of the year.

Anyways, this is getting redundant, i'll just accept that we can't hold Plekanec to the same standards as we do Price or Subban or Pacioretty.

Our levels of expectations with Plekanec fall in line with what we expect out of Torrey Mitchell apparently

It's not about 9 games vs 41, it's 50 games vs 41, you're claiming that 41 games is a better representation, why?

 

[BrendanGallagher11]

Sell emelin, markov, Fleischmann, plekanec

Add 2 top 6 forward and a top 4 d now or in summer

 

[FF de Mars]

I'd sell everybody out of core, except Pleky. Plekanec is a nightmare to play against, he's easily the most hated player by other teams, moreso than Gallagher.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I'd sell everybody out of core, except Pleky. Plekanec is a nightmare to play against, he's easily the most hated player by other teams, moreso than Gallagher.

He may be hated but isnt a nightmare to play against.

Only player who has nightmares of pleks is krejci

 

[Scuba-Steve]

Sell emelin, markov, Fleischmann, plekanec

Add 2 top 6 forward and a top 4 d now or in summer

Pretty much this but I would add Gilbert and trade Plekanec only if the offer is really good (1st + good prospect at least).

 

[417]

I'd sell everybody out of core, except Pleky. Plekanec is a nightmare to play against, he's easily the most hated player by other teams, moreso than Gallagher.

a nightmare to play against? Lol

Oh Lawwwwd!!!!

And you'd sell Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Gallagher and Galchenyuk before Plekanec?

Man....and some people here think I'm crazy for saying he's the most overrate Habs player

 

[FF de Mars]

Plekanec is chippy and defensively competitive, that's why he'd garner more value than Markov. He's fast, he plays a simple game, he slashes a lot without being noticed, he's a playmaking shooter, he's worth keeping... considering he will still hold the same trade value next year. Unless you sign StamkoV and Yandle and Boedker.

 

[Runner77]

Plekanec is chippy ...

Is he? He's barely noticeable. Doesn't play with any edge. This is a feature of his game that has long lapsed, it seems to me.

 

[FF de Mars]

Is he? He's barely noticeable. Doesn't play with any edge. This is a feature of his game that has long lapsed, it seems to me.

Everything went to hell this season, I expect better things next year. The team failed, it doesn't mean Plekanec is not Plekanec. Unless overpayment I wouldn't trade him. Keep in mind he will have the same trade value next year, he's a valuable piece, where is the rush ?

 

[Runner77]

Everything went to hell this season, I expect better things next year. The team failed, it doesn't mean Plekanec is not Plekanec. Unless overpayment I wouldn't trade him. Keep in mind he will have the same trade value next year, he's a valuable piece, where is the rush ?

33 years old, visibly declined, no edge to his game, overpaid

There is no rush, given that anyone considering him is going to ask Bergie to eat some of his salary. And when you're forced to eat salary to get a deal done, is there really a rush?

 

[Habit11]

I didn't like the Pleks or Markov extensions at the time, but I looked at it as two players who could gradually be pushed down the lineup by Galchenyuk and Beaulieu specifically, while providing some cushion for those two if they struggled a bit over the next year or two. Now I wonder if that was ever even a consideration by management and if that type of thinking could even be told to this coach. Doubt it.