Sportsnet: Friedman: "You can see he's unhappy, and you can see he and Dubas have different philosophies"

[Gallagbi]

Or before Babcock fundamentally changed the way Muzzin plated to suit Babcock's wishes?

Coach the players you have to maximize their abilities. He can only do that with Team Canada rosters.

Funny, I've never seen Babcock coach a player in to toe picks. Weird he chose just Muzzin for that.

 

[Bomber0104]

I wasn't the one who said it was a better team. But any team that replaces Bozak with Tavares, and Polak with Muzzin should be better, no?

How can you add 2 pros like that, have the kids be a year older and better, and not improve?

We also lost our leading goal scorer from last year...

Underrating and/or ignoring the pieces subtracted from last year's roster is just plain ignorance.

 

[kb]

Well, Nylander was out for a quarter of the season and it took him another three months to get into gear. That had a disruptive impact. We also downgraded slightly on backup goaltending, lost a PP net front presence and we also lost a couple of those depth guys who played a role. Marleau got worse.

I agree with the goaltending. IMO the Leafs lost nothing in netfront presence. JVR out, Tavares in. And Tavares does a whole lot more than simply be a PP specialist.

The depth losses aren't really significant. They weren't playing at the end of last year anyway, unless we miss Polak that badly.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Or maybe there's a fight because the players aren't getting with the program. Two way street.

The program sucks.

 

[Stephen]

Are the players the ones implementing the stretch pass offense with blowing the zone early?

I would hazard a guess to say our offensively inclined players aren't upset with that aspect of the game plan as much with the back check required to make that high risk play work.

 

[kb]

We also removed our leading goal scorer from last year.

Underrating and/or ignoring the pieces subtracted from last year's roster is just plain ignorance.

And ignoring that they have Johnsson/Tavares in place of Bozak/JVR reeks of ignorance, and is pushing an agenda.

 

[Bluelines]

I wasn't the one who said it was a better team. But any team that replaces Bozak with Tavares, and Polak with Muzzin should be better, no?

How can you add 2 pros like that, have the kids be a year olderoand better, and not improve?

JVR had 37 goals, Tavares has 40, not what I would call a sizemic shift in goal scoring. Muzzin is a better version of Polak, not a difference maker in any sense of an elite defender. Kadri, Marleau have both dropped in performance and poof you have a good team with similar point totals to last year.

Some people, myself included said before the beginning of the year it would be hard to exceed last years point totals , and we would probably finish with less points. Some people understand hockey, some don't I guess.

My prediction , and I'm usually right less then 50% of the time is the Leafs will take a step back next year. They will finish with less than 105 points.

June 5th, 2018.

Blue knows hockey

 

[Bomber0104]

And ignoring that they have Johnsson/Tavares in place of Bozak/JVR reeks of ignorance, and is pushing an agenda.

Big Johnsson fan eh?

Classic case of blue and white goggles here.

 

[Bluelines]

Check Muzzins first 4 games vs his last 4 games and get back to me.

What am I checking for?

 

[kb]

I would hazard a guess to say our offensively inclined players aren't upset with that aspect of the game plan as much with the back check required to make that high risk play work.

Right, but if you are doing that and expecting them not to be outmanned on failed attempts, that is a system that cannot succeed and must be changed.

 

[kb]

What am I checking for?

The Leafs record and his overall play. He looked like a top 2/3 guy, now he looks like Zaitsev.

Coaching is suspect at best.

 

[Bluelines]

Or before Babcock fundamentally changed the way Muzzin plated to suit Babcock's wishes?

Coach the players you have to maximize their abilities. He can only do that with Team Canada rosters.

Muzzin played in a dramatically different system in LA, you don't think he would have to adjust to a different style when he came here? If anything Babcock has adjusted to allow a D to D system hybrid when Muzzin is on the ice. Don't let your Coach Babcock hate get in the way of what is actually happening..

 

[diceman934]

It was in the threads, it was discussed on Leafs Lunch, 1050, Dreger,Miller, etc.... I'm not bothering to wade through. Given that, you're free to dismiss my factually bereft comment And, I'm free to be entirely comfortable that other teams didn't like his numbers either.

It was said on both TSN and Sports net.

 

[LeafSteel]

Imagining what we would look like if the money we spent on Marleau had been spent on keeping JVR instead..........

 

[Bluelines]

The Leafs record and his overall play. He looked like a top 2/3 guy, now he looks like Zaitsev.

Coaching is suspect at best.

So the fact Muzzin is not adjusting to a stretch pass system, while living in a D to D system his entire career, is Babcocks fault? Muzzin not making good reads, Muzzin having his passes intercepted at the center ice, Muzzin at times playing like a rover 4th outfielder, is not on Babcock. Muzzin has to learn the system, Muzzin has to play with in the system. Muzzin is a good defender and he will be much better next season, but to blame Babcock for Muzzin's inability to adjust in a reasonable amount of time, is on Muz not Babcock.

If a teacher spends 2 months teaching me something and I fail the test, its not the teachers fault, its mine. It's on me to be better.

BTW he's never looked like a top 3 guy on the Leafs.

 

[Stephen]

I agree with the goaltending. IMO the Leafs lost nothing in netfront presence. JVR out, Tavares in. And Tavares does a whole lot more than simply be a PP specialist.

The depth losses aren't really significant. They weren't playing at the end of last year anyway, unless we miss Polak that badly.

I've been saying this for a while now, but a young offensively gifted will usually go through a few phases of development:

1) Run and gun their way out of the basement and lead their fans to believe they could be the next Edmonton Oilers, reinventing the game in the process.*

2) Get shut down by a veteran team that plays more disruptive, defensive or heavy physical game. Rinse and repeat as required. *Even the Oilers had to suffer quite a few set backs, particularly against the '83 Islanders, before they figure it all out. Other examples would be Detroit in the 90s, Quebec in the 90s, Washington in the 00s and 10s, Tampa Bay right now, Pittsburgh in '08.

3) Emerge as a more experienced team that plays a heavier game with more emphasis on two way play, etc. with the realization that those lowly roles Polak, Komarov, Hyman, Hainsey fill are necessary on any functional cup winner.

Look at Tampa Bay. They a high ratio of role players that help support their small skill guys: Callahan, Killorn, Erne, Girardi, McDonagh, Miller.

 

[justafan22]

Imagining what we would look like if the money we spent on Marleau had been spent on keeping JVR instead..........

Keeping JVR would've been a dumb decision even in that scenario.

He's useless outside of the crease and on the rush

 

[Stephen]

Right, but if you are doing that and expecting them not to be outmanned on failed attempts, that is a system that cannot succeed and must be changed.

I do have some issues with the stretch pass as a strategy. Short passes and controlled zone exits via D carrying it out should be default to a successful transition game.

But the failure of the stretch pass is also a question of 1) frequency of use 2) situation when it's used 3) used by whom 4) quality of the pass 5) effectiveness of the receiver that are also not necessarily coaching issues but second to second reads by the individual players.

When I see Zaitsev going to the stretch pass from anywhere in his zone under heavy forecheck, I wonder how much of it is instructions and how much of it is low panic threshold and poor execution.

 

[Stephen]

Keeping JVR would've been a dumb decision even in that scenario.

He's useless outside of the crease and on the rush

Agreed. Keeping JVR may have been a better bandaid solution vs Marleau, but ideally both are not here.

 

[diceman934]

been talks by who? nobodies with no info? lol. Elliott Friedman is one of the top guys to listen to and even he is wrong.

dont worry about the media or what they think. Theyre usually wrong. Especially with the LEafs.

Coach states he has his goalies for the year coming out of camp. 3 games remaining in camp. He said he would play one for two games the other for one game. Dubas comes out that same day and states no decision have been made on goalies. Then puts Babs choice on waivers. This is not media driven or made up.

There is a real difference in their believes. Dubas trades for Muzzin states that he is just what we needed or words to that effect. Babs states he is not what we needed but will make it work.

Babs used Lindholm to play on the PK and at center he is traded for Petan. He plays a very small line and then states I could not play that line much. I need someone to play on the PK and to take faceoffs. Never mind the depth dig.
The pic Dubas posted.

They do not like each other.

 

[Buds17]

Imagining what we would look like if the money we spent on Marleau had been spent on keeping JVR instead..........

Realistically, it's been: More points. Fewer games played. More money and term against the cap. Some pros, some cons.

Pertaining to the thought - Considering he took a higher AAV and term than Marleau did, I don't see how JVR on the Marleau contract was in any way an option.

 

[Buds17]

delete

 

[nuck]

We also lost our leading goal scorer from last year...

Underrating and/or ignoring the pieces subtracted from last year's roster is just plain ignorance.

Plus lost 35 games of Willie and Kadri and replaced an 11-5 backup with an 8-7 one. With McBackup and a full season of Nylander they are 5 wins better for sure.

 

[nuck]

More points. Fewer games played. More money and term against the cap. Some pros, some cons.
Considering he took a higher AAV and term than Marleau did, I don't see how JVR on the Marleau contract was in any way an option.

A great deal for about 2 years but still jammed up against the cap, sketchy D and married to JVR for 5 declining years. Wishing a poor short term deal was gone doesn't make keeping JVR a smart choice and more goal scoring isn't this clubs biggest need.

 

[WillNy29]

You either go to Brock, or are am alumni... Aren't you...

Nope Wilfrid Laurier finance grad

 

[Mess]

I noticed you didn't fill out the forward lines
We actually need to be able to score goals as well to win

What are we paying JT and AM $11 mil or more to do?

Colton Parayko 10 goals vs Nylander 5 goals this year. Even if Willy continues to score in the 20+ is that really that hard to replace, above the improvement on D that this type of move would create?

If the Leafs are going to improve their Dcore and also be cap compliant they will have no choice but to deal from their strength their forwards and address their needs on defense through trades.

I think the GM would make his coach a lot happier if he would upgrade the defense even it costs the team some offense in the process.