Free Agents and Trade Thread - Offseason on Hold Edition

[deletethis]

I guess I never checked because I had been under the assumption that Keaton Middleton was signed to an ELC with SJ.

 

[biotk]

friend, for you to know this so precisely, is impressive, while suggesting you have far too much time on your hands Respect.

It's a poor use of free time!

 

[deletethis]

I remember him being over 50% the seasons before that though, the Carrick Gardiner pairing was pretty good

Limited player but he did have some ability offensively, bit of an adventure in his own end though

He played with the Caps at 19 years old! I was confident that he was going to amount to more. I wonder if there is something else going with the guy beyond hockey. It was weird that the Caps soured on him before he turned 22 after rushing him to the NHL. And he didn't last very long in Dallas either.

 

[LeafChief]

What are TML fans thoughts on Keaton Middleton? Curious from an Avs perspective...

I can only speak to his time as a Leafs prospect as I haven't followed him with the Sharks (although his stats show he seemed to perform well).

He looked to be trending in the right direction until getting into a fight at Rookie Camp one year and getting beat up pretty bad by Pezzetta (Habs prospect). He missed a lot of time after that and didn't really seem to catch his stride again.

By all accounts, seems to be a really good person from the write-ups I had read about him with strong leadership capabilities.

 

[Richard88]

Probably better to ask Shark fans. I don’t think any of us have really followed him since his D+1 year, where it was obvious he wouldn’t get a contract.

Seems like a serviceable AHL player. Wouldn’t hold your breathe on him getting an NHL deal. He’s all size and reach, and not much else.

But again, maybe he did well for the San Jose AHL team last year.

Thought he was worth an ELC in a vacuum, the only reason I'm not upset he didn't get one is that the org is absolutely stacked at LD. Moves well for a big man, underrated 1st pass, and was absolutely dominant defensively at the OHL level.

Most likely he's nothing, but there's a chance at a solid bottom pair PK guy, and a tiny sliver of late blooming stay at home top 4 guy with a more talented partner.

He's the kind of guy that if he does pan out he never made your top 20 prospects and then one day is just in the NHL seemingly out of nowhere.

I can only speak to his time as a Leafs prospect as I haven't followed him with the Sharks (although his stats show he seemed to perform well).

He looked to be trending in the right direction until getting into a fight at Rookie Camp one year and getting beat up pretty bad by Pezzetta (Habs prospect). He missed a lot of time after that and didn't really seem to catch his stride again.

By all accounts, seems to be a really good person from the write-ups I had read about him with strong leadership capabilities.

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated, and insightful.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

With colleges not playing hockey next year would something like Kapanen for Spencer Knight make sense for both sides if we could get him to sign?

They have Bobrovsky for the next 6 years at that contract and Dreiger played well for them this year. They're also losing all of Dadonov/Hoffman/Haula up front in the offseason as well and will need some scoring help. It's basically just Huberdeau and Barkov up front for them again next year.

I would hate to trade him to a division rival but I think it would also benefit both sides a great deal. We get a well timed replacement for Freddie at a low cost and can get Mo signed long term.

 

[Menzinger]

With colleges not playing hockey next year would something like Kapanen for Spencer Knight make sense for both sides if we could get him to sign?

They have Bobrovsky for the next 6 years at that contract and Dreiger played well for them this year. They're also losing all of Dadonov/Hoffman/Haula up front in the offseason as well and will need some scoring help. It's basically just Huberdeau and Barkov up front for them again next year.

I would hate to trade him to a division rival but I think it would also benefit both sides a great deal. We get a well timed replacement for Freddie at a low cost and can get Mo signed long term.

Is that happening? My understanding was the ncaa was planning on going forward as usual in the fall

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Is that happening? My understanding was the ncaa was planning on going forward as usual in the fall

I believe all fall programs are cancelled. I heard it on Sirius XM today though so I'm not 100% but if they are I could see a lot of guys signing.

 

[Kiwi]

I believe all fall programs are cancelled. I heard it on Sirius XM today though so I'm not 100% but if they are I could see a lot of guys signing.

I saw an article about the ivy league schools cancelling fall programs but I don't think the non ivy's have gone there yet

 

[Menzinger]

I believe all fall programs are cancelled. I heard it on Sirius XM today though so I'm not 100% but if they are I could see a lot of guys signing.

I think so far it depends on the individual schools.

The U of Minnesota for example is in the Big 10, and so far they remain committed to playing, though only for in conference games. Obviously things are still fluid and cannchange

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I think so far it depends on the individual schools.

The U of Minnesota for example is in the Big 10, and so far they remain committed to playing, though only for in conference games. Obviously things are still fluid and cannchange

Yea makes sense. Will be interesting to see if anybody signs though, especially if classes all get pushed back as well. Could see some great prospects make the jump a bit earlier.

 

[deletethis]

I saw an article about the ivy league schools cancelling fall programs but I don't think the non ivy's have gone there yet

I bet it depends on the school's financial health. Ivy League schools are teeming with endowments and can take the hit of missing a semester of tuition payments. Other schools have these ever bloating administrations financed indirectly off government backed student loans paying for criminally high tuition fees. Those schools need a constant influx of tuition money.

 

[dumbdick]

Sens Fan here.

I posted this in the sens forum, but want to know what Leafs fans would think of it. Trying to structure a mutually exclusive deal that would help you (a rich team) and us (a broke ass team). What do you think?

Raymond for Nylander Example:
1) Sens draft Raymond at #5, sign him to a $900K 3-year ELC contract.
2) Sens go and shop Raymond in a trade as if he is a player on a 3 year contract @ $2.9M per year. The extra $6M we're tacking on to his salary over his ELC is what we're expecting the other team to retain in salary on the player coming back.

Let's say it was this:
To Sens: Nylander - 4 Years @ 6M
To Leafs: Raymond - 3 Years @ 2.9M (effective salary after the $6M retention we're asking for on Nylander)

After his bonus, Nylander is owed 20.5M over 4 years.
Leafs retain ($6M/4) = $1.5M/year on Nylander, but still save cap space in the deal.

Between his bonus (already paid) and the extra retention, Sens end up with Nylander @ 3.6M per year real salary for the next four seasons. Leafs clear $4.5M in cap room for the next 3 seasons, and might get a star out of Raymond (who they would still control as an RFA).

Taking all of this into consideration, you can mentally add a pick or two on either side to balance it out (or swap in Drysdale instead of Raymond if you prefer).

As Leafs fans, how would you feel about a deal like this? I personally find it hard to gauge, but as a sens fan, I think this is the type of trade creativity we need to be competitive with a low budget.

 

[ACC1224]

Sens Fan here.

I posted this in the sens forum, but want to know what Leafs fans would think of it. Trying to structure a mutually exclusive deal that would help you (a rich team) and us (a broke ass team). What do you think?

Raymond for Nylander Example:
1) Sens draft Raymond at #5, sign him to a $900K 3-year ELC contract.
2) Sens go and shop Raymond in a trade as if he is a player on a 3 year contract @ $2.9M per year. The extra $6M we're tacking on to his salary over his ELC is what we're expecting the other team to retain in salary on the player coming back.

Let's say it was this:
To Sens: Nylander - 4 Years @ 6M
To Leafs: Raymond - 3 Years @ 2.9M (effective salary after the $6M retention we're asking for on Nylander)

After his bonus, Nylander is owed 20.5M over 4 years.
Leafs retain ($6M/4) = $1.5M/year on Nylander, but still save cap space in the deal.

Between his bonus (already paid) and the extra retention, Sens end up with Nylander @ 3.6M per year real salary for the next four seasons. Leafs clear $4.5M in cap room for the next 3 seasons, and might get a star out of Raymond (who they would still control as an RFA).

Taking all of this into consideration, you can mentally add a pick or two on either side to balance it out (or swap in Drysdale instead of Raymond if you prefer).

As Leafs fans, how would you feel about a deal like this? I personally find it hard to gauge, but as a sens fan, I think this is the type of trade creativity we need to be competitive with a low budget.

Can't see the Leafs being remotely interested in that.

 

[deletethis]

Sens Fan here.

I posted this in the sens forum, but want to know what Leafs fans would think of it. Trying to structure a mutually exclusive deal that would help you (a rich team) and us (a broke ass team). What do you think?

Raymond for Nylander Example:
1) Sens draft Raymond at #5, sign him to a $900K 3-year ELC contract.
2) Sens go and shop Raymond in a trade as if he is a player on a 3 year contract @ $2.9M per year. The extra $6M we're tacking on to his salary over his ELC is what we're expecting the other team to retain in salary on the player coming back.

Let's say it was this:
To Sens: Nylander - 4 Years @ 6M
To Leafs: Raymond - 3 Years @ 2.9M (effective salary after the $6M retention we're asking for on Nylander)

After his bonus, Nylander is owed 20.5M over 4 years.
Leafs retain ($6M/4) = $1.5M/year on Nylander, but still save cap space in the deal.

Between his bonus (already paid) and the extra retention, Sens end up with Nylander @ 3.6M per year real salary for the next four seasons. Leafs clear $4.5M in cap room for the next 3 seasons, and might get a star out of Raymond (who they would still control as an RFA).

Taking all of this into consideration, you can mentally add a pick or two on either side to balance it out (or swap in Drysdale instead of Raymond if you prefer).

As Leafs fans, how would you feel about a deal like this? I personally find it hard to gauge, but as a sens fan, I think this is the type of trade creativity we need to be competitive with a low budget.

The Leafs aren't trading Nylander AND giving away cap space. And Nylander isn't some maybe prospect. He's worth more than the 5th overall pick. Something more like 5th overall, a 2nd and one of Eric Brannstrom or Lassi Thomson before there's a temptation.

 

[dumbdick]

The Leafs aren't trading Nylander AND giving away cap space. And Nylander isn't some maybe prospect. He's worth more than the 5th overall pick. Something more like 5th overall, a 2nd and one of Eric Brannstrom or Lassi Thomson before there's a temptation.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I'm pushing the concept behind the trade more than the trade itself. But Nylander is obviously a bad target if you wouldn't consider him for #5 straight up, since the rest of the deal is basically a bag of money back to the sens.

I doubt the deal you're suggesting is something the Sens would consider.

 

[deletethis]

Yeah, that's fair enough. I'm pushing the concept behind the trade more than the trade itself. But Nylander is obviously a bad target if you wouldn't consider him for #5 straight up, since the rest of the deal is basically a bag of money back to the sens.

I doubt the deal you're suggesting is something the Sens would consider.

As a concept, sure there have been deals like that before. You're not getting somebody very good that way. If you're going on the cheap, better to go the route of higher quality young talent then cycling them out for more youth as they deserve bigger contracts.

But what Ottawa really needs: a new owner with deeper pockets.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Sens Fan here.

I posted this in the sens forum, but want to know what Leafs fans would think of it. Trying to structure a mutually exclusive deal that would help you (a rich team) and us (a broke ass team). What do you think?

Raymond for Nylander Example:
1) Sens draft Raymond at #5, sign him to a $900K 3-year ELC contract.
2) Sens go and shop Raymond in a trade as if he is a player on a 3 year contract @ $2.9M per year. The extra $6M we're tacking on to his salary over his ELC is what we're expecting the other team to retain in salary on the player coming back.

Let's say it was this:
To Sens: Nylander - 4 Years @ 6M
To Leafs: Raymond - 3 Years @ 2.9M (effective salary after the $6M retention we're asking for on Nylander)

After his bonus, Nylander is owed 20.5M over 4 years.
Leafs retain ($6M/4) = $1.5M/year on Nylander, but still save cap space in the deal.

Between his bonus (already paid) and the extra retention, Sens end up with Nylander @ 3.6M per year real salary for the next four seasons. Leafs clear $4.5M in cap room for the next 3 seasons, and might get a star out of Raymond (who they would still control as an RFA).

Taking all of this into consideration, you can mentally add a pick or two on either side to balance it out (or swap in Drysdale instead of Raymond if you prefer).

As Leafs fans, how would you feel about a deal like this? I personally find it hard to gauge, but as a sens fan, I think this is the type of trade creativity we need to be competitive with a low budget.

No thanks. Nothing against Raymond because I think he'll be a really good player, but why would the Leafs trade Nylander for somebody who they hope in 3-4 years would be as good as Nylander?

We'd be effectively wasting 3-4 years of the Tavares contract waiting for a kid to develop.

There isn't a defensemen available in free agency to help us out either with the opened up salary that would make a significant enough impact to replace the loss of Nylander.

If we need cap space, guys like Kerfoot/Johnsson/Kapanen all move before Willy.

 

[dumbdick]

As a concept, sure there have been deals like that before. You're not getting somebody very good that way. If you're going on the cheap, better to go the route of higher quality young talent then cycling them out for more youth as they deserve bigger contracts.

But what Ottawa really needs: a new owner with deeper pockets.

Haha, yeah. If you know any eccentric billionaires who like hockey and don't mind losing money, drop him my number.

As for not getting someone good, I'm not so sure.

Out: #5OA
In: A good player worth less than #5OA + "A Sweetener".

Normally that sweetener would be a pick or prospect. As an alternative, I'm suggesting salary retention to get the player we're acquiring down below their market value. I suspect with the leafs there could be a deal to be had like this, it's just finding that sweet spot of which pick, which player, and how much retention.

 

[meefer]

To Ottawa: Mitch Marner and Andreas Johnsson (14,390M)
To Toronto: Brady Tkachuk, Joshua Norris, 5th pick OV+3rd round (or) 21st+2nd round+3rd round pick.
Ottawa loses their most dynamic player, but lesser than Marner, Johnsson can fill BT's place to an extent offering 40+ points/ , Norris while a player with desirable potential (AHL player of the year) is projected as a solid 3C with 2C potential. Ottawa gains it's most dangerous player since Alfie, with solid potential at 2LW in AJ, their cap space is not threatened and they've still the 3rd overall which nets them Stutz or Byfield while gaining the player who has scored the 11th most points in the NHL over the last two years. Picks to favor Toronto to balance.

To Anaheim: 5th OV, 3rd round, and Kerfoot
To Toronto: Manson
Anaheim sees the chance to draft 5 and 6 OV, reduce cap hit and gain a tradeable or usable 3C in Kerfoot who costs less than Manson. Toronto now has the flexibility to accept Manson's 4.1M salary and give Rielly the partner he deserves for 2 years.

FA: sign Chris Tanev @ 5M for 1 year.
An injury plagued solid RD who can bridge Liljegren's development.

Tkachuk/Matthews/Nylander (19,5M)
Robertson/Tavares/Hyman (14.1M)
Mykeyev/Norris/Kapanen (6.125M, Mykeyev @2x2M)
Clifford/Engvall/Spezza (3.25M, Clifford @1M and Spezza@1M)
Barabanov/Gauthier/Brooks/Korshkov/Agostino (take two -2M)
Forwards: 45M

Rielly/Manson (9.1M)
Muzzin/Holl (7.625M)
Dermott/Tanev (7.5M with Dermott at 2.5M and Tanev at 5M, 1 year each)
Sandin/Liljegren (1.75M)
Defense: 26M

Andersen/Campbell (6.65M)

Team: 77.65M
Kessel: 1.2M
Total: 78.85M
2.65M left for needs, 1.75M if Kaskisuo is re-signed and applied.

 

[Kurtz]

To Ottawa: Mitch Marner and Andreas Johnsson (14,390M)
To Toronto: Brady Tkachuk, Joshua Norris, 5th pick OV+3rd round (or) 21st+2nd round+3rd round pick.
Ottawa loses their most dynamic player, but lesser than Marner, Johnsson can fill BT's place to an extent offering 40+ points/ , Norris while a player with desirable potential (AHL player of the year) is projected as a solid 3C with 2C potential. Ottawa gains it's most dangerous player since Alfie, with solid potential at 2LW in AJ, their cap space is not threatened and they've still the 3rd overall which nets them Stutz or Byfield while gaining the player who has scored the 11th most points in the NHL over the last two years. Picks to favor Toronto to balance.

I don't know much about Joshua Norris, but if I'm Ottawa, I'm keeping Tkachuk+5th overall over Mitch@ $11 mil/season, and it's an easy decision.

From Toronto's side, obviously a dream deal. We get a 1st line winger making nothing for 2 more years, a #5 pick in a great draft, and free up $10 mil in cap room to sign Pieterangelo? Are you kidding me?

A+ deal for Toronto, C- for Ottawa.

 

[Joel Ward]

Which defense core would you prefer going forward?:

Dermott - Pietrangelo
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Lehtonen
Liljegren

or

Rielly - UFA (Brodie/Hamonic/Tanev)
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
Lehtonen/Liljegren

With option #1, you look to trade Rielly for an ELC forward to replace Kerfoot/Johnsson subtractions that are necessary in either scenario.

 

[CatchyTune]

Sens Fan here.

I posted this in the sens forum, but want to know what Leafs fans would think of it. Trying to structure a mutually exclusive deal that would help you (a rich team) and us (a broke ass team). What do you think?

Raymond for Nylander Example:
1) Sens draft Raymond at #5, sign him to a $900K 3-year ELC contract.
2) Sens go and shop Raymond in a trade as if he is a player on a 3 year contract @ $2.9M per year. The extra $6M we're tacking on to his salary over his ELC is what we're expecting the other team to retain in salary on the player coming back.

Let's say it was this:
To Sens: Nylander - 4 Years @ 6M
To Leafs: Raymond - 3 Years @ 2.9M (effective salary after the $6M retention we're asking for on Nylander)

After his bonus, Nylander is owed 20.5M over 4 years.
Leafs retain ($6M/4) = $1.5M/year on Nylander, but still save cap space in the deal.

Between his bonus (already paid) and the extra retention, Sens end up with Nylander @ 3.6M per year real salary for the next four seasons. Leafs clear $4.5M in cap room for the next 3 seasons, and might get a star out of Raymond (who they would still control as an RFA).

Taking all of this into consideration, you can mentally add a pick or two on either side to balance it out (or swap in Drysdale instead of Raymond if you prefer).

As Leafs fans, how would you feel about a deal like this? I personally find it hard to gauge, but as a sens fan, I think this is the type of trade creativity we need to be competitive with a low budget.

I mean, thanks for the well thought out offer, but trading Nylander for a potential Nylander seems silly on our part considering we are looking to win now.

If we have to clear cap, it will be with lesser players, not Nylander.

 

[CatchyTune]

To Ottawa: Mitch Marner and Andreas Johnsson (14,390M)
To Toronto: Brady Tkachuk, Joshua Norris, 5th pick OV+3rd round (or) 21st+2nd round+3rd round pick.
Ottawa loses their most dynamic player, but lesser than Marner, Johnsson can fill BT's place to an extent offering 40+ points/ , Norris while a player with desirable potential (AHL player of the year) is projected as a solid 3C with 2C potential. Ottawa gains it's most dangerous player since Alfie, with solid potential at 2LW in AJ, their cap space is not threatened and they've still the 3rd overall which nets them Stutz or Byfield while gaining the player who has scored the 11th most points in the NHL over the last two years. Picks to favor Toronto to balance.

To Anaheim: 5th OV, 3rd round, and Kerfoot
To Toronto: Manson
Anaheim sees the chance to draft 5 and 6 OV, reduce cap hit and gain a tradeable or usable 3C in Kerfoot who costs less than Manson. Toronto now has the flexibility to accept Manson's 4.1M salary and give Rielly the partner he deserves for 2 years.

FA: sign Chris Tanev @ 5M for 1 year.
An injury plagued solid RD who can bridge Liljegren's development.

Tkachuk/Matthews/Nylander (19,5M)
Robertson/Tavares/Hyman (14.1M)
Mykeyev/Norris/Kapanen (6.125M, Mykeyev @2x2M)
Clifford/Engvall/Spezza (3.25M, Clifford @1M and Spezza@1M)
Barabanov/Gauthier/Brooks/Korshkov/Agostino (take two -2M)
Forwards: 45M

Rielly/Manson (9.1M)
Muzzin/Holl (7.625M)
Dermott/Tanev (7.5M with Dermott at 2.5M and Tanev at 5M, 1 year each)
Sandin/Liljegren (1.75M)
Defense: 26M

Andersen/Campbell (6.65M)

Team: 77.65M
Kessel: 1.2M
Total: 78.85M
2.65M left for needs, 1.75M if Kaskisuo is re-signed and applied.

I dont see Ottawa doing that while in a rebuild. I dont do it either given our state, I think both teams just stand pat. I do like Norris though. Really underrated prospect, but not worth trading Marner for.

5th overall for Manson is a big overpay IMO. Especially given he only has 2 years left until UFA.

I would absolutely sign Tanev to that, but not sure why he doesnt take term considering his injury issues.

 

[CatchyTune]

Which defense core would you prefer going forward?:

Dermott - Pietrangelo
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Lehtonen
Liljegren

or

Rielly - UFA (Brodie/Hamonic/Tanev)
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
Lehtonen/Liljegren

With option #1, you look to trade Rielly for an ELC forward to replace Kerfoot/Johnsson subtractions that are necessary in either scenario.

2nd one. I love Pietrangelo but a deal with him would likely look something like a 10x7, taking him from ages 31-37. I would rather sign a lower end, lower risk guy like Brodie or Tanev and keep Rielly. Also considering Rielly is only making $5 million, it isnt a given he would have to go in any Pietraneglo signing.