Free Agent Frenzy

[herzausstein]

Galchenyuk seemed like the kind of player we would pick up, but I don't think there's much there at this point.

I don't think we're going to get any reclamation projects this season. Poile's gone out of his way to get players that have either strong character or strong compete levels (heart n' soul types).

 

[Scoresberg]

He would instantly be another Turris/Granlund. I would not be a fan.

I think the deal would've been like $1,5 mil for one year so I don't think those players are really comparable here. Think of a like Cody Hodgson-type deal.

Although... again if you got a "sweetener"... it's not absolutely necessary that you protect it in the Expansion Draft. Anything you get "for free"... well, you can use that player for a year, expose in the ED, and effectively lose nothing from the existing roster in the ED. You could look like it as if you're "buying protection".

That's actually a really good point. Still would be hesitant to take on Johnson, given his contract.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah, Tyler Johnson is the scary one. Killorn I would take with no hesitation. Johnson... you are basically just recreating the Turris situation you bought yourself out of.

Well ok, Johnson probably won't have his nose out of joint like Turris might have, and he tends to hustle pretty well, even if he's ultimately not really any better as a player than Turris. So he might still be slightly better for us than Turris was going to be. But 4yrs at $5M... for that I think I want: a 1st + a player sweetener who might entice Seattle + $1M retention from TB! I don't think Seattle would take Johnson just because he's a local player, unfortunately. Unless he had a really monster bounceback year. But if we got, say: Killorn, Johnson@$4M, 1st, Foote... even losing Foote in ED, we still have a 1st to show at the end of the day. And that's maybe not the worst price TB could be paying to get out of their cap jam.

Although it sure seems like Tampa is just going to wait "months" before doing anything. And why not. Who knows what the landscape will look like whenever a season actually happens. Maybe an out materializes.

 

[Legionnaire11]

What makes Johnson way more palatable than Turris, first it's $1M less, then you're also getting something back with him either a pick or prospect. But on the ice, he fits on the wing way more naturally than Turris did so there shouldn't be an friction between he and the coach (even though Turris always said there was none), he also has a stronger two-way game than Turris and has played the PK in the past. Lastly, if all else fails, he can play 2C or 3C if injuries dictate. Just a way more versatile option on the roster than Turris was.

I also think people are viewing a potential Johnson+Killorn package as a cap dump and letting that nasty phrase taint the players. These were the 2nd line wingers on the Cup champs, but just because they're cap dumps we don't want them on our team now that happens to have it's biggest need at 2nd line winger?

Ultimately, I don't think we are getting either one, let alone both. That said if Poile did take them on, I don't think it would be quite the on-ice risk that a lot of posters are making it out to be.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

What makes Johnson way more palatable than Turris, first it's $1M less, then you're also getting something back with him either a pick or prospect. But on the ice, he fits on the wing way more naturally than Turris did so there shouldn't be an friction between he and the coach (even though Turris always said there was none), he also has a stronger two-way game than Turris and has played the PK in the past. Lastly, if all else fails, he can play 2C or 3C if injuries dictate. Just a way more versatile option on the roster than Turris was.

I also think people are viewing a potential Johnson+Killorn package as a cap dump and letting that nasty phrase taint the players. These were the 2nd line wingers on the Cup champs, but just because they're cap dumps we don't want them on our team now that happens to have it's biggest need at 2nd line winger?

Ultimately, I don't think we are getting either one, let alone both. That said if Poile did take them on, I don't think it would be quite the on-ice risk that a lot of posters are making it out to be.

I agree. I think this would unequivocably Make Our Team Better.

I guess where I see a valid issue with taking on Killorn and Johnson is that it does handcuff us a little more for any down-the-road moves. Cap-wise for chasing even better future UFAs, or roster spots for our incoming prospects. To me, these wouldn't be the main drivers. But I buy that line of reasoning.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

What makes Johnson way more palatable than Turris, first it's $1M less, then you're also getting something back with him either a pick or prospect. But on the ice, he fits on the wing way more naturally than Turris did so there shouldn't be an friction between he and the coach (even though Turris always said there was none), he also has a stronger two-way game than Turris and has played the PK in the past. Lastly, if all else fails, he can play 2C or 3C if injuries dictate. Just a way more versatile option on the roster than Turris was.

I also think people are viewing a potential Johnson+Killorn package as a cap dump and letting that nasty phrase taint the players. These were the 2nd line wingers on the Cup champs, but just because they're cap dumps we don't want them on our team now that happens to have it's biggest need at 2nd line winger?

Ultimately, I don't think we are getting either one, let alone both. That said if Poile did take them on, I don't think it would be quite the on-ice risk that a lot of posters are making it out to be.

They produced in a lineup that had a PPG+ Kucherov, a PPG Stamkos, a more-or-less PPG Point, and ~.66 PPG Palat. Playing in the lineup, and alongside, players like that tends to have an elevating effect on the players around them and inflates point totals. There's nobody like that on this roster, in fact Johansen and and Duchene both seem to be reliant on their linemates to drive their production rather than the other way around. I'd be highly surprised if either came here and didn't see a 10-point drop in production.

 

[Legionnaire11]

They produced in a lineup that had a PPG+ Kucherov, a PPG Stamkos, a more-or-less PPG Point, and ~.66 PPG Palat. Playing in the lineup, and alongside, players like that tends to have an elevating effect on the players around them and inflates point totals. There's nobody like that on this roster, in fact Johansen and and Duchene both seem to be reliant on their linemates to drive their production rather than the other way around. I'd be highly surprised if either came here and didn't see a 10-point drop in production.

Counterpoint, Johnson and Killorn play with and produce with quality players. But others have not, Vlad Namestnikov every season in Tampa was expected to step up and become a 1st liner with minutes next to Stamkos and never did, Ryan Callahan never elevated above 3rd line status despite opportunities available to do so. Johnson was awesome between Palat and Kucherov on the Triplets line, but also did well and won a cup last season with Cirelli as his center. Killorn has been able to keep up in a 1st line role with Stamkos, 2nd line with Cirelli, 3rd line with Filppula.

So yes, they play with and produce with good players, but that might just be because they are themselves good players. I watched these guys live every game for two seasons and I'm confident that they're highly capable players who are not a product of their teammates, rather they are important contributing players who enable those stars to do their thing.

 

[OldFan]

They produced in a lineup that had a PPG+ Kucherov, a PPG Stamkos, a more-or-less PPG Point, and ~.66 PPG Palat. Playing in the lineup, and alongside, players like that tends to have an elevating effect on the players around them and inflates point totals. There's nobody like that on this roster, in fact Johansen and and Duchene both seem to be reliant on their linemates to drive their production rather than the other way around. I'd be highly surprised if either came here and didn't see a 10-point drop in production.

Teams need leaders. It used to be the Captains plus veterans. Now?
Now most captains are just the teams best player(I said most; I know there are exceptions).
Leaders rise up; they are not just elected. With apologies to Josi, the Preds best player, last “leader” if you will was Fisher. Players seemed to gravitate to him.
Do the Preds have leaders? It seems they have players who should be leaders but who seem to need to be led instead.
I think Josi is a leader to the D-men who seem to be a solid group.
The forwards; who is their leader? They need leadership but from whom?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Counterpoint, Johnson and Killorn play with and produce with quality players. But others have not, Vlad Namestnikov every season in Tampa was expected to step up and become a 1st liner with minutes next to Stamkos and never did, Ryan Callahan never elevated above 3rd line status despite opportunities available to do so. Johnson was awesome between Palat and Kucherov on the Triplets line, but also did well and won a cup last season with Cirelli as his center. Killorn has been able to keep up in a 1st line role with Stamkos, 2nd line with Cirelli, 3rd line with Filppula.

So yes, they play with and produce with good players, but that might just be because they are themselves good players. I watched these guys live every game for two seasons and I'm confident that they're highly capable players who are not a product of their teammates, rather they are important contributing players who enable those stars to do their thing.

Not something I'm interested in tying up our remaining cap for 3 years to test. One or the other, with other assets bundled, I could probably live with.

 

[CMDEADLY]

From a relative source, Johnson wants to play in Nashville.

 

[OldFan]

Johnson had a good year once in like 14-15 when he was young. Since then 3 bad, 2 pretty good. For 4/5m Preds would’ve been better off with Craig Smith; bigger, stronger. He’s not Preds answer if Tampa Bay kept back all $5M.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Not something I'm interested in tying up our remaining cap for 3 years to test. One or the other, with other assets bundled, I could probably live with.

It's not a problem at all for this year and next year when we have basically our whole team locked up already. Just flip a little of Rinne's money to Fabbro, done.

But it's 2022-23 we'd potentially run into troubles when Forsberg and Ekholm are up also. Granted, so are many others. I feel like I could work with that $40M of cap space and the unsigned players at that time and the incoming prospects and not be in any trouble. I look at that and I'm not overly concerned. I think it would be worth the risk to try to be as competitive as possible these next 2 seasons. Past that... if all has failed, it's probably fine to just blow things up and not feel particularly constrained on the cap.

As long as Tampa gave us a big enough sweetener, anyway.

 

[BigFatCat999]

So Corey Perry's agent is trying to get his name in everyone's ear.

EDIT: which drove me up the wall since he was linking Perry to the Preds. *vomits*

 

[sparkle twin]

So Corey Perry's agent is trying to get his name in everyone's ear.

EDIT: which drove me up the wall since he was linking Perry to the Preds. *vomits*

Last season I thought about it, maybe he could be useful here. But then after the Winter classic, screw him.

 

[Legionnaire11]

We already have a glut of bottom-6 players. Don't want Perry, don't need Perry.

 

[herzausstein]

Johnson had a good year once in like 14-15 when he was young. Since then 3 bad, 2 pretty good. For 4/5m Preds would’ve been better off with Craig Smith; bigger, stronger. He’s not Preds answer if Tampa Bay kept back all $5M.

Agreed. TJ has had his productivity slip 3 seasons in a row now.
16-17 was a 56 point pace
From there 50, 47, and 39 point pace. Taking a 4 year 5M AAV risk that the trend will reverse is a huge risk and better come with huge compensation. It’s personally not a risk I’d be willing to take unless it comes with one heck of a young prospect/player

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Agreed. TJ has had his productivity slip 3 seasons in a row now.
16-17 was a 56 point pace
From there 50, 47, and 39 point pace. Taking a 4 year 5M AAV risk that the trend will reverse is a huge risk and better come with huge compensation. It’s personally not a risk I’d be willing to take unless it comes with one heck of a young prospect/player

Definitely on the same train you two are, but I'm fearful with him being a USA hockey guy AND now allegedly wanting to play here. Hope we get a nice pick/prospect in the deal. Afraid it'll be Turris 2.0 in a few years.

 

[Scoresberg]

It's not a problem at all for this year and next year when we have basically our whole team locked up already. Just flip a little of Rinne's money to Fabbro, done.

But it's 2022-23 we'd potentially run into troubles when Forsberg and Ekholm are up also. Granted, so are many others. I feel like I could work with that $40M of cap space and the unsigned players at that time and the incoming prospects and not be in any trouble. I look at that and I'm not overly concerned. I think it would be worth the risk to try to be as competitive as possible these next 2 seasons. Past that... if all has failed, it's probably fine to just blow things up and not feel particularly constrained on the cap.

As long as Tampa gave us a big enough sweetener, anyway.

But is that the best use of the cap space, especially considering that we'd be blocking the kids' playing time?

Johnson is Turris-lite given Nashville's history in forward production, not to mention his god-awful contract we'd be recreating the Turris situation all over again. Killorn is a solid piece for a year or two but history has shown that his type of players decline rapidly when they're getting up there in age.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So Corey Perry's agent is trying to get his name in everyone's ear.

EDIT: which drove me up the wall since he was linking Perry to the Preds. *vomits*

It'd be great to have an agitator... but... we can't afford one who is as slow as Perry. Even without the baggage. I cannot see the Preds having any remote interest in Perry.

What I don't exactly understand is why he and Dallas wouldn't just be mutually inclined to continue things there. He actually did really well for them in the playoffs, I thought. They don't have a ton of cap space. But bridging Hintz below $3M would leave them enough room to wedge Perry in at $1M, it looks like. Or is he just looking to get paid more again? Or get more than 1 year, I guess. Happy if he leaves them and sails right out of the division, of course. But I was thinking it would be semi-automatic he'd just re-sign there.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

But is that the best use of the cap space, especially considering that we'd be blocking the kids' playing time?

Johnson is Turris-lite given Nashville's history in forward production, not to mention his god-awful contract we'd be recreating the Turris situation all over again. Killorn is a solid piece for a year or two but history has shown that his type of players decline rapidly when they're getting up there in age.

IS it the best? Isn't it? I mean, that's always the question. I could see it being the best for 2020-21 anyway. Looks like we aren't getting Hoffman and nobody else is better. So what changes in 2021-22? It's a pretty good UFA year for D. Is Hall going to leave Eichel and come here? Is that even better? Birds in hand are worth how many in the bush?

I do think maybe the Turris 2.0 comparisons are getting a little carried away. Johnson is a fairly energetic and versatile player anyway. He may only produce like a Turris, but I think he'll have a bit of a burr under his saddle and we'll like his style and on-ice demeanor more than Turris', even if he ultimately doesn't put up more points. He's got a little Steve Sullivan in him.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

If you get a 2nd + for taking on Johnson's cap hit, you do that deal.

Basically Smith for Johnson + 2nd + whatever as a trade. It's not that bad really.

I'd love to see a line of Johnson Duchene Grimaldi. All speed. All day.

Perry thankfully is most likely to go to Ottawa. We don't need or want him here.

 

[Kat Predator]

IS it the best? Isn't it? I mean, that's always the question. I could see it being the best for 2020-21 anyway. Looks like we aren't getting Hoffman and nobody else is better. So what changes in 2021-22? It's a pretty good UFA year for D. Is Hall going to leave Eichel and come here? Is that even better? Birds in hand are worth how many in the bush?

I do think maybe the Turris 2.0 comparisons are getting a little carried away. Johnson is a fairly energetic and versatile player anyway. He may only produce like a Turris, but I think he'll have a bit of a burr under his saddle and we'll like his style and on-ice demeanor more than Turris', even if he ultimately doesn't put up more points. He's got a little Steve Sullivan in him.

The thing about Johnson vs. our signings this offseason is size. He doesn't stack up with Poile adding heft and grit with his signings.

Adding Perry would mean he's not taking Ellis' head off this season.

 

[herzausstein]

Definitely on the same train you two are, but I'm fearful with him being a USA hockey guy AND now allegedly wanting to play here. Hope we get a nice pick/prospect in the deal. Afraid it'll be Turris 2.0 in a few years.

The only way I like it is if we get a great sweetener and then he's taken by Seattle in expansion draft.

 

[Scoresberg]

IHe may only produce like a Turris, but I think he'll have a bit of a burr under his saddle and we'll like his style and on-ice demeanor more than Turris', even if he ultimately doesn't put up more points. He's got a little Steve Sullivan in him.

Do you pay $5 mil for the next 4 years for a guy who might or might not be a bit more energetic than Turris? Cause I think that's top-6 scorer money.. we're better off with younger guys playing in the bottom-6 and grooming them for the top-6 winger spots.

 

[Byrddog]

Counterpoint, Johnson and Killorn play with and produce with quality players. But others have not, Vlad Namestnikov every season in Tampa was expected to step up and become a 1st liner with minutes next to Stamkos and never did, Ryan Callahan never elevated above 3rd line status despite opportunities available to do so. Johnson was awesome between Palat and Kucherov on the Triplets line, but also did well and won a cup last season with Cirelli as his center. Killorn has been able to keep up in a 1st line role with Stamkos, 2nd line with Cirelli, 3rd line with Filppula.

So yes, they play with and produce with good players, but that might just be because they are themselves good players. I watched these guys live every game for two seasons and I'm confident that they're highly capable players who are not a product of their teammates, rather they are important contributing players who enable those stars to do their thing.

Both Johnson and Killer are good players and it is also correct Johnson is more of a asst scoring 2 or 3C that is the reason for his drop in production last year as he was moved to the wing where he does not do well. So if the plan would be to put him at wing with Duchene it is not a fit. Killer however can play any role. With Stamkos injury he was slid right into the 2nd line for the duration, he however played all four lines the past couple years and he would be a goof fit here. Killer played very little with Kuch and Point this year with the exception of the PP where he did quite a bit of time with them and Palat and one of Hedman or McDounagh but again when Stamkos went down they were forced back to three forwards and two D where he played mainly the 2PP unit.

There is much discussion about who will move out of Tampa but as time goes by it is more and more unclear. In normal years it made sense for teams to not make moves until Hall and Hoffman were signed but now things have came to a grinding halt and focus has been on signing RFA's and for Tampa as each day goes by the fewer chances they will be able to move a roster player with NTC's and on the other hand some GM's like Poile are sitting on there CAP either content or banking on bargain basement signings when eveythong settles out. Which could well be next June, July, from reports while Bettman still swears a Jan start that is looking bleak. So much speculation about any start date is all tounge and cheek at this point the league can not start another season without fans in seats. With another lockdown looming over this virus it is hard to imagine a season happening now.