GDT: Free Agent Frenzy

[huerter]

Says you lol

Who are y0u, Rick?

 

[Avery16]

View attachment 372141

If LHD 3 is outperforming JJ, then why is he scratched

 

[aufheben]

If LHD 3 is outperforming JJ, then why is he scratched

Graphic is from before signing.

 

[SA16]

Do you think Martin overrates Johnson or he signed him knowing the learning curve will be lower for him than someone who hasn't played for him?

I tend to doubt that the Rangers newly hired alternate coach has such a large influence on which players they go after in the offseason. They didn't bring in any former Stars/Avalanche after hiring Ruff or Oliver.

 

[Edge]

Well the alternative would be to offer contracts to the competent players who signed for cheap. For example, all of Forbort, Pysyk, Boyd, Koivu, Larsson, Cousins, Hinostroza, Nosek, Verhaege, Jankowski, Noesen, Rodrigues, Merrill, are competent bottom of the lineup type players. That's 13 guys all of which signed for no more than 2 years with an AAV no higher than 1.5M. I find it hard to believe if they reached out to all of them, many of which shared agents, that they would get zero of thirteen to bite. Yet we see them actively reaching out to players known to be bad like Jack Johnson and then signing borderline NHL players for league minimum.

I can tell you right off the bat, some of those names were not coming here or I suspect had little interest in coming here.

So without even blinking we can scratch Koivu, Larsson, Cousins, Hinostroza, Forbort and a few others off the list. BTW, Forbort was approached by several teams with two-way offers. He chose one that was a one-way deal and likely to keep him from going back to the AHL this season.

And that right there is part of the problem. It's very easy to come up with a list of names. What fans don't often take into consideration is that guys have connections with other teams, they have preferences on where they live, and that some teams are more focused on each of those guys and willing to go with more term.

You also have to factor that some of these guys chose situations where they know they aren't as likely to get beat out.

Let's take Fast for example. He's looking at a two-year deal here for less overall money than Carolina and a scenario where he's potentially playing by Kakko, Buchnevich, Gauthier and possibly Kreider.

At best, he's fighting for a fourth line spot. At worst, he's hoping they keep Kreider on the left side so that he's not the odd-man-out.

Don't think for a hot second that he's not wondering if he's moved at the TDL or well before this contract expires. And if that happens, he has no choice but to go where he's traded --- and he passed up an opportunity to make money and control his destiny.

That's just one example of what goes into this process beyond simply approaching every one of those guys on your list and making them an offer.

I can also tell you that right now, places like NY and Philadelphia are going to have a harder time recruiting because of the uncertainty of playing games in those cities.

So again, it's not just a matter of going out selecting guys to join the roster. It's very much a two-way street right now.

 

[Edge]

I tend to doubt that the Rangers newly hired alternate coach has such a large influence on which players they go after in the offseason. They didn't bring in any former Stars/Avalanche after hiring Ruff or Oliver.

Martin did give his feedback prior to the signing.

 

[aufheben]

Dominik Kahun, Slater Koekkoek still available I think.

lol

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Martin must have had some sort of say in them signing Johnson, it makes no sense otherwise.

This is a good article from Larry. I'm glad he's publicly shitting on the Johnson signing, because they deserve it.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

I tend to doubt that the Rangers newly hired alternate coach has such a large influence on which players they go after in the offseason. They didn't bring in any former Stars/Avalanche after hiring Ruff or Oliver.

I think you of al people realize this is faulty logic, right?

 

[SA16]

I can tell you right off the bat, some of those names were not coming here or I suspect had little interest in coming here.

So without even blinking we can scratch Koivu, Larsson, Cousins, Hinostroza, Forbort and a few others off the list. BTW, Forbort was approached by several teams with two-way offers. He chose one that was a one-way deal and likely to keep him from going back to the AHL this season.

And that right there is part of the problem. It's very easy to come up with a list of names. What fans don't often take into consideration is that guys have connections with other teams, they have preferences on where they live, and that some teams are more focused on each of those guys and willing to go with more term.

You also have to factor that some of these guys chose situations where they know they aren't as likely to get beat out.

Let's take Fast for example. He's looking at a two-year deal here for less overall money than Carolina and a scenario where he's potentially playing by Kakko, Buchnevich, Gauthier and possibly Kreider.

At best, he's fighting for a fourth line spot. At worst, he's hoping they keep Kreider on the left side so that he's not the odd-man-out.

Don't think for a hot second that he's not wondering if he's moved at the TDL or well before this contract expires. And if that happens, he has no choice but to go where he's traded --- and he passed up an opportunity to make money and control his destiny.

That's just one example of what goes into this process beyond simply approaching every one of those guys on your list and making them an offer.

I can also tell you that right now, places like NY and Philadelphia are going to have a harder time recruiting because of the uncertainty of playing games in those cities.

So again, it's not just a matter of going out selecting guys to join the roster. It's very much a two-way street right now.

Why are we scratching these guys off? Koivu, I understand. The others - how can you possibly know if they are interested without asking and then seeing if they would take an offer? Forbort certainly could have been given a 1 way deal he's a solid 3rd pairing guy.

As for Fast I can understand him leaving if he wanted the third year or was worried about expansion but his role is going to be worse in Carolina. In NY he would have had a good chance to play with Panarin at least for a year. In Carolina he's going to be permanently on a purely defensively third line with Jordan Staal.

 

[SA16]

I think you of al people realize this is faulty logic, right?

No. I don't think the assistant coach is a major factor with regards to forming the roster. I think the organization was likely interested in him in the first place and then may have asked for his opinion. JD obviously know Johnson well.

If you're asking if "Were any cheap DAL/COL players available when Ruff/Oliver were involved" I don't know the answer to that as I have not looked into it. I just know it didn't happen.

 

[Edge]

Why are we scratching these guys off? Koivu, I understand. The others - how can you possibly know if they are interested without asking and then seeing if they would take an offer? Forbort certainly could have been given a 1 way deal he's a solid 3rd pairing guy.

As for Fast I can understand him leaving if he wanted the third year or was worried about expansion but his role is going to be worse in Carolina. In NY he would have had a good chance to play with Panarin at least for a year. In Carolina he's going to be permanently on a purely defensively third line with Jordan Staal.

I don't think we are scratching guys off. I think the guys themselves are scratching themselves off in many cases.

Forbort was hurt, spent time in the AHL on a conditioning assignment, was traded for a conditional fourth and came into this season facing a number of offers that wanted to leave open the option of sending him back to the AHL. He chose an offer that would pay him and he decided to stay in the middle part of the continent where he could get to Minnesota as needed. So that's one example of a thought a process.

In some cases, some of these guys know they aren't working their way into a long-term home with the Rangers. If you're Hinostroza for example, you pretty much already know there's little chance of sticking around long-term.

The downside of having a stacked prospect cupboard is that some of these guys can already see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[Roo Returns]

@Edge anything on Nieto and Grabner. Even interest? Nieto went to school in Boston and has wheels. That's why I was big on him as a logical candidate.

Also more general, I said before but maybe this season they hold off and internally assess. They're not competing for the Cup this season unless Jacques Martin can turn this squad into a defensive machine.

Remember guys will need raises but they get an instant $12 million of cap back next offseason with the Lundqvist and Shattenkirk deals decreased and Spooner's little chunk of change off the books. And Siyonara Smith add even more.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

No. I don't think the assistant coach is a major factor with regards to forming the roster. I think the organization was likely interested in him in the first place and then may have asked for his opinion. JD obviously know Johnson well.

If you're asking if "Were any cheap DAL/COL players available when Ruff/Oliver were involved" I don't know the answer to that as I have not looked into it. I just know it didn't happen.

So because we didn’t sign a guy Ruff asked for means we didn’t listen to Martin?

I’m pretty sure those are separate scenarios that have no effect on each other

Martin is clearly a well respected defensive mind. Is it so hard to believe he put in his input and was listened to?

 

[Edge]

@Edge anything on Nieto and Grabner. Even interest? Nieto went to school in Boston and has wheels. That's why I was big on him as a logical candidate.

Also more general, I said before but maybe this season they hold off and internally assess. They're not competing for the Cup this season unless Jacques Martin can turn this squad into a defensive machine.

Remember guys will need raises but they get an instant $12 million of cap back next offseason with the Lundqvist and Shattenkirk deals decreased and Spooner's little chunk of change off the books.

Grabner could be an insurance policy down the line, but he's taking a wait and see approach.

There's quite a few guys who are rumored to be more comfortable playing in Europe next year than dealing with North America. We'll see how many it actually turns out to be.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Martin must have had some sort of say in them signing Johnson, it makes no sense otherwise.


This is a good article from Larry. I'm glad he's publicly shitting on the Johnson signing, because they deserve it.

good read right there from uncle Lar.

rangers did NOTHING to clarify the defensive situation.

JG and JD did zip so far. and there doesnt seem to be much on the horizon unless its a trade.

the 2C solution is prob just more ryan strome.

 

[rangers1314]

Grabner could be an insurance policy down the line, but he's taking a wait and see approach.

There's quite a few guys who are rumored to be more comfortable playing in Europe next year than dealing with North America. We'll see how many it actually turns out to be.

Wonder if Joe Thornton is one of these guys.

 

[SA16]

I don't think we are scratching guys off. I think the guys themselves are scratching themselves off in many cases.

Forbort was hurt, spent time in the AHL on a conditioning assignment, was traded for a conditional fourth and came into this season facing a number of offers that wanted to leave open the option of sending him back to the AHL. He chose an offer that would pay him and he decided to stay in the middle part of the continent where he could get to Minnesota as needed. So that's one example of a thought a process.

In some cases, some of these guys know they aren't working their way into a long-term home with the Rangers. If you're Hinostroza for example, you pretty much already know there's little chance of sticking around long-term.

The downside of having a stacked prospect cupboard is that some of these guys can already see the handwriting on the wall.

I guess my question is how do the Rangers know these guys are not interested if they do not ask? Forbort could have very easily been giving a 1 way deal here and had a significant role given the dearth of LD options. He ended up signing that deal in WPG which is often considered by players to be one of the least desirable locations in the league. If he wants to get to Minnesota as needed I'm not sure that's even easier from Winnipeg. It's not a short drive and flights seem few and far between. Are these fringe guys sending letters around the league saying there are places they won't play? That doesn't seem very likely to me.

 

[Riche16]

I agree and you're point is spot on. It's easy to make "in hindsight" comments, but no one in their right mind was going to build a plan based around winning the lottery.

Now if we want to make a fair critcism of the Rangers, I think we can say that they had too much tied up into defenseman who didn't work out. Even taking Staal out of the equation, you still had/have money tied up in guys like Girardi, Shattenkirk and Smith. At some point there's only so many of those salaries you can mask without feeling the impact.

At the same time (not knowing we were going to win Laf...
We did know we weren’t winning a thing at the trade deadline.

Many of us wanted to move Fasth, Strome, Hank & Staal/Smith if poss and Kreider @ the deadline.

I get the Hindsight perspective and certainly agree about the blown money on D but there’s also lost assets 4 nothing like Fasth and while certainly not as egregious as Girardi Staal Smith Kirk money... the assets need to be maximized. Especially more so if ur wasting that other cap

 

[cwede]

... so much for all that Lettieri to Switzerland, O'Regan to Germany chatter ...

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I don't think we are scratching guys off. I think the guys themselves are scratching themselves off in many cases.

Forbort was hurt, spent time in the AHL on a conditioning assignment, was traded for a conditional fourth and came into this season facing a number of offers that wanted to leave open the option of sending him back to the AHL. He chose an offer that would pay him and he decided to stay in the middle part of the continent where he could get to Minnesota as needed. So that's one example of a thought a process.

In some cases, some of these guys know they aren't working their way into a long-term home with the Rangers. If you're Hinostroza for example, you pretty much already know there's little chance of sticking around long-term.

The downside of having a stacked prospect cupboard is that some of these guys can already see the handwriting on the wall.

So you're saying there are circumstances beyond Gorton is not doing his job?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

good read right there from uncle Lar.

rangers did NOTHING to clarify the defensive situation.

JG and JD did zip so far. and there doesnt seem to be much on the horizon unless its a trade.

the 2C solution is prob just more ryan strome.

With the added difficulty of the trade market being dead because no GM wants to make a big trade and have it blow up in their face with a flat cap

 

[SA16]

So because we didn’t sign a guy Ruff asked for means we didn’t listen to Martin?

I’m pretty sure those are separate scenarios that have no effect on each other

Martin is clearly a well respected defensive mind. Is it so hard to believe he put in his input and was listened to?

Yea I don't think the new assistant coach is anywhere near the top of the chain when it comes to what moves are made in the offseason. JD, Gorton, Drury, and Quinn all would come well before him and could shoot down the suggestion if he made it. But I would expect them to ask for his opinion if it was something they were already considering.

 

[Edge]

I guess my question is how do the Rangers know these guys are not interested if they do not ask? Forbort could have very easily been giving a 1 way deal here and had a significant role given the dearth of LD options. He ended up signing that deal in WPG which is often considered by players to be one of the least desirable locations in the league. If he wants to get to Minnesota as needed I'm not sure that's even easier from Winnipeg. It's not a short drive and flights seem few and far between. Are these fringe guys sending letters around the league saying there are places they won't play? That doesn't seem very likely to me.

Some of are known beforehand through back channels. That’s why FA deals get done so quickly. In some cases it’s known before hand what a player preference is.

I don’t know what else to tell you than to say some guys are going where they want for a variety of reasons.

And in some cases the Rangers are approaching some of these guys, but they prefer other destinations.

I think the problem is people are frustrated right now and so it’s almost like we want an update on every single player that was approached or not approached and we’ve never done that as a board. But some of these guys had other plans for their lives.

Frankly, if this off-season comes down to Jack Johnson vs. Derek Forbort, I’m not sure there’s a greater outcome to be had anyway. I mean we’re not exactly debating the cream of the crop here.

 

[duhmetreE]

Martin = Staal. He's there as last resort. If a trade for LHD does not manifest and/or the kids do not earn a spot, we will be stuck with him to start the year.

AS THINGS ARE.. I see one of Reunanen, Hajek or Miller playing with Trouba.

????? - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Smith - ADA
Johnson