Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: Someone Get Gorton A Vesey Button.

[Blue Blooded]

Serious question:

What is the difference between Colin Miller before this past year and ADA?

People gush over some of these other players but refuse to give their high talent players the time and patience to develop.

The difference? DeAngelo's upside is far higher.

 

[Ola]

Interesting, Brooks is obviously really really in the know. He is Gorton’s megaphone. Sure he gets things wrong, but when there is a development — like Hayes being dumped more or less — Brooks was on it so long ago.

This is my take on it. Gorts is gearing up on prospects. Giving him ammo. But he knows that he cannot build a team through the draft. Why? The timing just don’t add up. If you draft a D you can only count on him being a core piece of your D like 5-7 years down the road — at that is somewhat early. Core core piece like 8-9 years in. And even if forwards are faster, much faster, you get timing issues with them too because they will be ruined while you rebuild your defense for 7-8 years...

So he is creating cap space and his plan is to use it to speed things along. But all UFAs for a foreseeable future have been swept off the market. Seguin got to be 90% to resign with Dallas. Karlsson? Well Gorton has had permission to talk to EK so that won’t be leaked to Brooks. Could be interest or not. But Panarin? I take this as Gorts wanting to get the message out to him, don’t do anything stupid. We will pay you if you want to come here.

 

[pld459666]

A very simplistic view of it, but if Hayes is traded and we get anything better than the 24th overall selection in 19 draft, this would be a good acquisition.

Got him for free, got a few solid seasons out of the player AND moved him for a pick lower than where he was selected?

That's good asset management

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

A very simplistic view of it, but if Hayes is traded and we get anything better than the 24th overall selection in 19 draft, this would be a good acquisition.

Got him for free, got a few solid seasons out of the player AND moved him for a pick lower than where he was selected?

That's good asset management

Higher. And it doesn't really matter since we never used a pick on Hayes.

 

[RangerBoy]

Definitely an interesting listen from Custance and Brooks. However the thing that stands out the most for me is how little he seems to know about the plan. I got the impression that he wasn't sold that the rebuild was real, but is finally buying into it and isn't sure how to cover it. Covering this team has been easy for a long time because the headlines just kind of write themselves. So it'll be interesting to see how he covers a team where big trades and signings can't carry him through an entire season.

If the contract is right, signing Panarin as a UFA makes a lot of sense. However, if you have to make an insane offer to get him here, then the team is probably better served waiting for a different opportunity. Trading for him would be absolutely asinine.

Brooks has no patience for the rebuild. He discussed how hard it is to cover a bad hockey team and it's been a while since he covered a bad hockey. Brooks has been writing for a while about how the Rangers should accelerate the rebuild. The Rangers rebuild is just starting.

 

[RangerBoy]

Interesting, Brooks is obviously really really in the know. He is Gorton’s megaphone. Sure he gets things wrong, but when there is a development — like Hayes being dumped more or less — Brooks was on it so long ago.

This is my take on it. Gorts is gearing up on prospects. Giving him ammo. But he knows that he cannot build a team through the draft. Why? The timing just don’t add up. If you draft a D you can only count on him being a core piece of your D like 5-7 years down the road — at that is somewhat early. Core core piece like 8-9 years in. And even if forwards are faster, much faster, you get timing issues with them too because they will be ruined while you rebuild your defense for 7-8 years...

So he is creating cap space and his plan is to use it to speed things along. But all UFAs for a foreseeable future have been swept off the market. Seguin got to be 90% to resign with Dallas. Karlsson? Well Gorton has had permission to talk to EK so that won’t be leaked to Brooks. Could be interest or not. But Panarin? I take this as Gorts wanting to get the message out to him, don’t do anything stupid. We will pay you if you want to come here.

Brooks also wanted Hayes signed long-term. Gorton isn't running his ideas past Brooks for his opinion. Brooks wanted the Rangers to trade Stepan for only a top RHD and was surprised it was for futures. They should trade McDonagh for a only Nylander or Sergachev. Gorton is not consulting Brooks on his player acquisitions. They tell Brooks the general stuff. If Larry was running the team,Kovalchuk at 3 years and $6.25M would have been in April. Gorton doesn't need Brooks to send Panarin a message. He shares the same agent as Namestnikov.

You can't build the team with free agents and old guys.

The Rangers are paying Panarin 7 years and $70M-$77M for what? The rest of the team still needs to be rebuilt. The Rangers have a long way to go.

 

[RangerBoy]

We don't even have a legit 1st or 4th line center but we're signing Panarin.
I see..

$11M for a 27 year old winger. The Rangers will still suck.

 

[nyr2k2]

Wouldn’t the flip side be that we just added a top talent (Hughes, Turcotte, Newhook) and they’d be an exciting young player to play with over rhe duration of his contract?

That would have to be part of the sell.

I'm just saying---if we're horrible next year and then sell off our veterans again, that's two years in a row without playoffs and a clear rebuild going on. If I'm a big ticket UFA, I might look at that situation and say, yeah, they have some nice prospects and young guys in the NHL, but when will they realistically be competing? 3-4 years? And if that's the case, I might not want to sign a deal where half of the term is spent on a team just trying to get back to contention.

Or, maybe I would. I don't know. Maybe I really want to play in NY, have faith in what Gorton sells me, and can wait a year or two to get back to really contending.

I just think it could hurt more than help to bottom out, in terms of securing that top UFA (or two). It would obviously help by adding a very talented young player to the system, but, it's potentially a trade-off.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

$11M for a 27 year old winger. The Rangers will still suck.

Do you really think he’ll get Tavares money? I find that hard to believe

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think depending on where they finish this year and who they get in the draft will play a key role who they go after potentially in UFA. If they get the #1 pick and get Hughes, that could make them open to chasing Karlsson (if he hit UFA). Center depth would be quality with Hughes, Zbad, And some combo of Chytil, Andersson and Howden.


Getting a elite prospect would change the dynamic of the rebuild.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers are really going to need for a center to emerge to even contemplate signing Panarin for big $'s or it's kind of a waste. If we're giving him 7 years he's a mid 30's player when his contract is up. But the Rangers don't have what I would call a legit 1st line center. Maybe if Zibanejad can stay healthy for an entire he could get to 60 or above. He's not the greatest puck distributor/playmaker though either. Is Panarin good enough to carry a team or a line on his back? Maybe a line--not a team.

 

[NYR Viper]

$11M for a 27 year old winger. The Rangers will still suck.

I think, like most things we discuss here that are future based, there has to be some sort of grey area. If Panarin was willing to sign for 7 years @ $9m would you consider it? I would. $11m? Probably not. Somewhere in the middle? Well that depends.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The Rangers are really going to need for a center to emerge to even contemplate signing Panarin for big $'s or it's kind of a waste. If we're giving him 7 years he's a mid 30's player when his contract is up. But the Rangers don't have what I would call a legit 1st line center. Maybe if Zibanejad can stay healthy for an entire he could get to 60 or above. He's not the greatest puck distributor/playmaker though either. Is Panarin good enough to carry a team or a line on his back? Maybe a line--not a team.

I’d argue he just did last season

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If Panarin truly wants to play here then tell him to take the ShatDueces path to getting here. Otherwise, thanks but no thanks and continue on with the rebuild.

 

[Inferno]

Panarin will be what.....28 next off-season? 7 yes takes him till 35. Ugh...I'm gonna say pass.

 

[Inferno]

If panarin was the guy to put us over the top. Sure...I just don't see it. I think this team wtih panarin is a middling team...that's a place you don't want to be.

 

[Off Sides]

I would not be surprised to see the Rangers sign some free agents next offseason, but I would be surprised if they are near the ceiling at the point where all of Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Hajek, Lindgren come off their entry level deals in 2021. (should some not slide) or the next year assuming all their 2018 draftees have their entry level end that year.

What would be the point to drafting/trading for all those prospects if they are going to be capped out of re-signing them should any of them be worthy of long term deal right off their entry level.

They do lose some contracts in 2021 and some big ones, Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Smith, Staal so they will have room but in the mean time there are some other contracts that will come up to be signed, Buchnevich, maybe ADA Poink, Georgiev, if they extend Kreider, Hayes Fast? sign their KHL prospects.

Currently for the 2020-21 season they are projected to have spent only ~37M in cap space. only at ~12m for the 2021-22 season. They are going to have to spend some cap space on something even with all those prospect/rfa signing in between. There seems to be a cap gap, if all their pending UFAs between now and 2020 and 2021 are gone, and not replaced with some cap hits that are above entry levels/bridge deals, they are going to be at or below the floor. Not that it is a bad thing, there are always ways to get to the floor. Perhaps they envision selling while taking back some cap dumps for the following season or extending more players than I envision?

I have never been a fan of the UFA market, but it kind of looks like the Rangers may use it in some fashion. Whether they go high end or just get more stop gaps I think will depend on how this season goes in term of development from the youth, yet I'm not sure those answers will be all that definitive even after this season.

 

[Inferno]

When u sign a guy in his late 20s you're almost always paying for what he did do. Not what he will do. I just don't see it being a good fit at this point in the rebuild.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If panarin was the guy to put us over the top. Sure...I just don't see it. I think this team wtih panarin is a middling team...that's a place you don't want to be.

Depends on how things go this season.

What I’m not too comfortable with is they don’t seem fully committed to being bad. Hayes, zucc and crew are still prime candidates to get traded, but it would really be to the rangers benefit to move them sooner rather than later.

But anyway, If they sign panarin, it would be after 2 full drafts and likely 3 straight top 10 picks and 3 full drafts with multiple 1sts.

They’ve already got a deep farm, they will have assets out the ass by this time next year. I’d say that it would be the ideal time to add him.

If everything goes according to plan that is.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

When u sign a guy in his late 20s you're almost always paying for what he did do. Not what he will do. I just don't see it being a good fit at this point in the rebuild.

Usually yes, but this is a guy who came over later. Less miles on those tires.

Plus elite guys tend to stay elite.

 

[Leetch3]

in addition to not giving up assets, we are not in the position to be trading assets for panarin. same deal as karlsson...lets see how this season goes and evaluate where we stand next summer. if all goes well with the development of our young players we might be sitting here next summer thinking we are ready for the next step. but we might also have just watched all the kids struggle or spend the season in hartford and realize its gonna be a couple years. and it makes no sense to sign those type of contracts if you are gonna waste the first 3 years

 

[Inferno]

Usually yes, but this is a guy who came over later. Less miles on those tires.

Plus elite guys tend to stay elite.

It's not like started playing hockey at 19...he just played elsewhere...the miles are still there...maybe they are softer miles but it's still there.


The elite guys tend to stay elite...I just...I think that's something we wish to tell ourselves.

Example...guys like Richards who depend on their smarts will age better (wrong)
Guys like redden can always make that first pass (wrong)
Rick Nash could score 40 in his sleep with this supporting cast (wrong)
Guys like Drury who go to the net will always get those dirty hoald (wrong)


There's very little evidence that how good a player is will directly affect their aging curve. Maybe they have more to fall from but if you're paying a guy 8 or 9 mil...then you're paying for the best of the best. Will he be a 9mil player in even 3 years ..I'd say it's unlikely.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's not like started playing hockey at 19...he just played elsewhere...the miles are still there...maybe they are softer miles but it's still there.


The elite guys tend to stay elite...I just...I think that's something we wish to tell ourselves.

Example...guys like Richards who depend on their smarts will age better (wrong)
Guys like redden can always make that first pass (wrong)
Rick Nash could score 40 in his sleep with this supporting cast (wrong)
Guys like Drury who go to the net will always get those dirty hoald (wrong)


There's very little evidence that how good a player is will directly affect their aging curve. Maybe they have more to fall from but if you're paying a guy 8 or 9 mil...then you're paying for the best of the best. Will he be a 9mil player in even 3 years ..I'd say it's unlikely.

None of those guys except Nash were elite, and there is no question that the head injuries altered his game.

Everyone is at risk for those though.

 

[offdacrossbar]

you surround panarin with decent talent and he's an 80 + point guy. hell go get you 30-35 easy and with that shot and finish, he's a pp dream. he's EXACTLY what you want to add when you are remaking a team.

he's mid 20's- (he turns 27 in oct) and the closest thing we would have to an "elite" talent. he would be the best player on our roster by alot and he would make us a better team instantly for both the short term and the next 3-5 yrs.

this "rebuild" is real. no doubt. i do not see how adding a talent like panarin doesnt fit inside that rebuild plan. we have the money and the prospects. if you think this rebuild is going to happen via the draft only, I've got a bridge to sell you. this is nyc. this isnt going to be a 5 yr deal. no way. this organization wants to compete soon.

he's young. he's supremely talented. he's available. he wants to play here. he's a "foundation"type player and he's russian.

panarin mika and CK. good lord. what a line that would be. if that wouldn't be one of the best top lines in the conference i would be shocked.

buch chytil zucc is a solid 2nd line too.

makes too much sense.

 

[Inferno]

If panarin was 24 I'd be all over throwing him a 7x10 contract ..that takes him thru the entire prime of his career ..you're getting peak..ish years . I don't wanna pay for a guys age 32 plus season as if he was age 24.

I hate to quote @RangerBoy here but... It's a business....this would be a poor business move.

Unless he's willing to sign a massive discount deal...like 4 years 7.5mil per...I just don't see it...and even then it would waste his few remaining oeak years while keeping us as a borderline playoff team barring other moves.


Timing seems wrong.