Salary Cap: Free Agency VIII | All Pens FA News, Legit FA Rumors, Trade Ideas Here
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Subby Dubby Doooo
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I believe that if you have a really good #1, you can have a #3/4 playing in the #2. The #1 defenceman carries he first pairing and makes his partner better. Look at muzzin - doughty. Also, down the road they will have Maata to fill that role.
Jaded-Fan
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Look, am I crazy to say that although they are completely different types of defensemen, Ehrhoff and Martin are in the ballpark of one another as far as ability goes and what each brings to the table?
The Pens were hardly lacking in defense, 10th overall last year despite a massive amount of injuries and losing a huge chunk of their defense for a lot of the year:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...=avgGoalsAgainstPerGame&viewName=goalsAgainst
Maatta has more experience, Ehrhoff is here, Letang has a one in a billion chance of another heart problem, we have a ton of NHL ready kids on defense who never got the chance, and on and on.
Can we really not afford to lose Martin, who we likely lose next year anyways, if it means upgrading forward where the cupboard is completely bare?
The Pens were hardly lacking in defense, 10th overall last year despite a massive amount of injuries and losing a huge chunk of their defense for a lot of the year:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...=avgGoalsAgainstPerGame&viewName=goalsAgainst
Maatta has more experience, Ehrhoff is here, Letang has a one in a billion chance of another heart problem, we have a ton of NHL ready kids on defense who never got the chance, and on and on.
Can we really not afford to lose Martin, who we likely lose next year anyways, if it means upgrading forward where the cupboard is completely bare?
JTG
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- Sep 30, 2007
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as I see it we have:
Letang - can be an elite #1 but very inconsistent.
Martin - elite #2, makes everyone he plays with better, can go against oppositions best line.
Ehrhoff - good #3, great weapon for the PP, decent in his own end but wouldn't want him regularly out against opposing teams best players. Best paired with a more defensive dman.
Maatta - good #3 (with potential to be top pairing maybe even a #1), good at both ends of the rink, ideally I'd pair him with a defensive dman right now so he can continue to grow the offensive side of the game.
Despres - good #4/5 (potential to be a #3), hopefully he can be a two-way guy who provides some physicality.
Bortuzzo - good #6 (potentially a good #5), brings physicality and gets under opponents skin while being solid in his own end, able to PK and not a complete dud with the puck.
Scuderi - I'd be happy if he can look like an OK bottom pairing guy but if we can give him away I would, hopefully Johnston's system is a better fit for him and he can anchor the bottom pairing while playing on the top PK unit.
Samuelsson - OK #7 (Potentially a good #6), a decent fill in but doesn't have a particular stand out quality (or any stand out quality) hopefully he'll learn to be a decent NHL PKer which could help him establish himself as a #6 (for us or someone else) down the line.
If we lose Martin from that group I think we're seriously going to struggle as I see him taking a lot of the tough ES minutes and also being a big part of the PK (Unfortunately Scuderi's PK prowess plus his long contract is going to keep him from being traded). If Martin was gone then Letang would have to be consistent and we'd be relying on Maatta to not only skip a sophmore slump but also improve.
In an ideal world:
Martin - Letang
Despres - Ehrhoff
Maatta - Bortuzzo
Samuelsson (fills in for Maatta to start the season)
Scuderi traded.
What I think will happen:
Martin - Letang
Maatta - Ehrhoff
Scuderi/Despres/Bortuzzo
Samuelsson
I'm a huge Paul Martin fan. He's our best defensemen. But if he doesn't consider re-signing here, I hope the Martin rumors turn out similar to the Staal trade. JR & Chuck Fletcher could discuss a Martin deal & see if Paul would be interested in signing there immediately after a potential trade. And then the Pens could get a young winger like Niederrieter or Zucker and a 1st or another forward for Martin. That'd be good for both sides. I'm very bored but this could make sense 
mpp9
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- Dec 5, 2010
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Thought out of left field. But Colligan mentioning mutual interest awhile back between LA and Martin reminded me of when LA was rumored to have offered him more money than us back in 2010.
Williams has one more year left on his deal. And I haven't heard anything about him re-signing. They have some young forwards to replace him. But a hole in their top 4 defense.
I'd add, but maybe something around those two players is doable.
Williams has one more year left on his deal. And I haven't heard anything about him re-signing. They have some young forwards to replace him. But a hole in their top 4 defense.
I'd add, but maybe something around those two players is doable.
NeedleInTheHay
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- Mar 26, 2008
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You're really underselling Ehrhoff here. He's no worse than Martin. It's just that Ehrhoff's offense is like Martin's defense, and Ehrhoff's defense is like Martin's offense. Ehrhoff is definitely a top pair D, and he's not bad defensively either. Maatta is a good complement to him.
Gotta agree with this. Ehrhoff's defense isn't that bad. Much like Letang in that it's perceived to be awful, while the reality is that while he could be better, he isn't nearly as bad as people say/think.
I'm not saying he's bad defensively but if he's our most reliable guy defensively then I don't think we're getting very far in the playoffs. He's a great guy to have on the 2nd pairing and a significant upgrade on Niskanen and cheaper.
Shady Machine
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- Aug 6, 2010
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Shady Machine
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- Aug 6, 2010
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He's not what? if we rely on Scud and Bort as anything more than the bottom pairing we're in serious trouble.
Shady Machine
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- Aug 6, 2010
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He's not our most reliable defensively, which was your concern. You are getting worked up about nothing IMO.
Our defense in the playoffs last year (with Orpik injured):
Martin-Letang
Maatta-Niskanen
Scuderi-Bortuzzo
Our defense this year (as of now):
Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff (better than Maatta-Nisky)
Scuderi-Bortuzzo
If you trade Scuderi, our defense is much better than last year IMO. If you trade Martin and keep Scuds, there will be a downgrade, but it's temporary and the return will solidify our top 6. That's a bigger team need. If the return for Martin doesn't give us a top 6 winger, then obviously you don't make the trade.
Look, at some point we need to take a risk on D and play the kids. Right now, Despres doesn't have a spot with a healthy lineup. Not to mention Dumoulin, Harry, Pouliot, Sammy. Shero drafted these guys and JR has to give them a spot in the lineup. Otherwise it's the same song and dance over and over again.
I'd love to trade Scuderi so Despres could get a permanent spot in the lineup. Samuelsson I'd keep as the #7, don't see huge upside with him. Pouliot and Harrington should spend the year in the AHL but with some call ups so we get an idea of how they look. Dumoulin I'd look at moving as I don't see a spot for him moving forward.
I know Martin is probably our best shot at landing a top 6 winger, but I don't like the look of our defense without him. We trade him and our top 4 is Letang, Erhoff, Maatta, and Bort/Scuds/Despres. Bortuzzo will never be a top 4 guy, Scuds doesn't have it in him anymore, but if Despres is on the second line our bottom pairing is Bort-Scuds which makes me want to vomit. And that's if we're all healthy.
I'm fine with seeing how the season starts and either waiting for a huge return on Martin that we absolutely can't pass up or centering a trade around maybe Sutter. Also agree with the poster above, Dumoulin really has no role on this team anymore. He never looked great in his callups, and we still have Harrington and Pouliot knocking on the door. Maybe something around him and Sutter? That should get us at least an upgrade over any of our current top 6 wingers except maybe Hornquist.
I'm fine with seeing how the season starts and either waiting for a huge return on Martin that we absolutely can't pass up or centering a trade around maybe Sutter. Also agree with the poster above, Dumoulin really has no role on this team anymore. He never looked great in his callups, and we still have Harrington and Pouliot knocking on the door. Maybe something around him and Sutter? That should get us at least an upgrade over any of our current top 6 wingers except maybe Hornquist.
IMO, the biggest fear in trading Letang or Martin for a top 6 F is that it probably means scuds is on this team next year. The Pens reasoning is that we need an experienced D no matter how bad this experience is. You upgrade the F position but severely weaken the D with Scuds on the team.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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- May 31, 2004
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I think it makes some sense to explore trading options with Martin. I also think the defense would ultimately be alright without him. But I cannot agree that he is anything less than the most reliable defenseman on this team. Who would you rather have out there in a critical situation?
Maatta I could maybe see. The other two aren't even in the same stratosphere as Paul Martin. Especially Scuderi. That guy couldn't defend his way out of a wet paper sack, these days.
Yeah, I like Sutter more than most on this board and have no problem keeping him but even I will admit he is far more expendable to this team than Martin. Goc and Spaling are comparable 3rd line centers. We don't have anything comparable to Martin to replace him if we trade him.
I'm not saying I wouldn't deal Martin. The return would just have to be pretty amazing and we're unlikely to get anything that amazing with him only having one year left on his deal.
Dipsy Doodle
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- May 28, 2006
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My guess is the Pens are reforming the lineup over the next two years with cap space next year. The core from past years is down to Sid, Geno and Letang. Add Oli, Sutter and Norvquist to that core going forward. Pens rebuild is at forward and JR knows that the system is barren of a top 6 forward. Bennett can be if healthy but I now have my doubts that he can. Pens need to trade Martin for a young top six forward while they can.
Been saying this myself for a bit. There's only a handful of players I'd be willing to trade Martin for. I think we'd miss him a lot more than we realize if he returned anything less than amazing.
iFishyHD
Registered User
Ideally this year I want the defense to be,
Martin-Letang
Maatta-Erhroff
Despres-Bort
Scuds-Samuellsson
Dumoulin
(Obviously Dumo in AHL and Samuellsson starting until Maatta comes back)
Then next year
Maatta-Letang
Despres-Erhroff
Samuellsson-Bort
Dumo
Ideally get Erhroff 1 more year, then Pouliot, Harrington, and such start making apperences. Then trade some of them and get offense.
Martin-Letang
Maatta-Erhroff
Despres-Bort
Scuds-Samuellsson
Dumoulin
(Obviously Dumo in AHL and Samuellsson starting until Maatta comes back)
Then next year
Maatta-Letang
Despres-Erhroff
Samuellsson-Bort
Dumo
Ideally get Erhroff 1 more year, then Pouliot, Harrington, and such start making apperences. Then trade some of them and get offense.
I'm not opposed to moving him (however still really like him and Despres). But I think it's too soon to say he has no role on this team. With Letang, Maatta, Despres, Dumo, Harrington and Pouliot as our top 5 prospects and our top D who's not going anywhere, I think it's way too soon to say he can't fit.
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