Frederik Andersen front runner for the Vezina

[Gnashville]

Well you have a case on thee best top 9 and maybe coach but all are subjective as hell.

But you are incorrect. It is normal to see someone write "Player X could win the X" and want to talk about it, especially when your team has not won a major award since Gilmour.

I'm sorry, but the guys that get upset by the very topic are showing the insecurity, not the guys who want to enjoy rare success. Now I get that we are a big bunch and so our interest is big, but I'm tired of apologizing for having the biggest fan base. People need to avoid Leaf threads if their blood boils every time they see a positive topic by the largest fan base.

Maybe I should start a Rinne for Vezina and Hart thread but his play is what’s proving him worthy of praise.

 

[BlueBaron]

Maybe I should start a Rinne for Vezina and Hart thread but his play is what’s proving him worthy of praise.

He is the favorite right now, so go for it. Can't see anyone getting upset or telling you to use your own forums for it.

 

[NyQuil]

I truly don’t understand it. I want the play of the team to do the talking. I’m very happy with how good the team looks, and this is the most optimistic I’ve ever been as a Leafs fan, but I’m not going to shout about how great this team is, or the players are, until there’s something real to back it up.

You guys have a skilled and entertaining team over there.

 

[NyQuil]

Well you have a case on thee best top 9 and maybe coach but all are subjective as hell.

But you are incorrect. It is normal to see someone write "Player X could win the X" and want to talk about it, especially when your team has not won a major award since Gilmour.

I'm sorry, but the guys that get upset by the very topic are showing the insecurity, not the guys who want to enjoy rare success. Now I get that we are a big bunch and so our interest is big, but I'm tired of apologizing for having the biggest fan base. People need to avoid Leaf threads if their blood boils every time they see a positive topic by the largest fan base.

There's nothing wrong with "Player X could win the X".

What I'm seeing is "Andersen is the best goalie in the league this year" as essentially the title of the OP and of course some people are going to disagree, and then those people are branded as Leaf haters because they disagree with the premise of the OP.

You guys create black and white statements and then complain about "haters" when they don't agree.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Jonesey]

Stats be damned? I gave you a link to the stats you should be looking at. Save percentage and goals against average are incredibly flawed and shallow metrics.

You gave me a link to stats that are incredibly flawed and shallow. See how easy that is?

Goalie	W	L	OT	SO	GAA	SV%	GSAA	HDSV%	dSV%
Goalie A	15	7	0	1	2.30	.931	14.45	80.75	1.98
Goalie B	10	8	4	1	2.58	.927	18.73	82.20	2.46
Goalie C	11	4	1	2	1.86	.934	10.83	85.45	2.23
Goalie D	14	9	1	5	2.38	.913	1.39	78.20	0.22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Wins:
A - 3 pts
D - 2 pts
C - 1 pt
B - 0 pts

Shut Outs:
D - 3 pts
C - 2 pts
A&B - 1 pt

GAA:
C - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
D - 1 pt
B - 0 pts

SV%:
C - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
B - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

GSAA:
B - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
C - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

HDSV%:
C - 3 pts
B - 2 pts
A - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

dSV%:
B - 3 pts
C - 2 pts
A - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

Totals:
A - 12 pts
B - 10 pts
C - 15 pts
D - 6 pts

Yes, I know this is not the end all, be all but I think it's a pretty fair representation of what most of the GM's would look for when voting.

Flame away.

 

[Static]

You gave me a link to stats that are incredibly flawed and shallow. See how easy that is?

Goalie	W	L	OT	SO	GAA	SV%	GSAA	HDSV%	dSV%
Goalie A	15	7	0	1	2.30	.931	14.45	80.75	1.98
Goalie B	10	8	4	1	2.58	.927	18.73	82.20	2.46
Goalie C	11	4	1	2	1.86	.934	10.83	85.45	2.23
Goalie D	14	9	1	5	2.38	.913	1.39	78.20	0.22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Wins:
A - 3 pts
D - 2 pts
C - 1 pt
B - 0 pts

Shut Outs:
D - 3 pts
C - 2 pts
A&B - 1 pt

GAA:
C - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
D - 1 pt
B - 0 pts

SV%:
C - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
B - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

GSAA:
B - 3 pts
A - 2 pts
C - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

HDSV%:
C - 3 pts
B - 2 pts
A - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

dSV%:
B - 3 pts
C - 2 pts
A - 1 pt
D - 0 pts

Totals:
A - 12 pts
B - 10 pts
C - 15 pts
D - 6 pts

Yes, I know this is not the end all, be all but I think it's a pretty fair representation of what most of the GM's would look for when voting.

Flame away.

The key to your argument is what GMs are going to look for, and in the stats you list you are right, they wont look into which goaltenders are actually playing the best. Precedent shows that.

But that doesn't mean we need to fall into that pit as well.

 

[Jonesey]

The key to your argument is what GMs are going to look for, and in the stats you list you are right, they wont look into which goaltenders are actually playing the best. Precedent shows that.

But that doesn't mean we need to fall into that pit as well.

That's the whole nature of the thread though. It is literally talking about the Vezina Trophy, which is voted on by GM's mainly by plain ol' statistics.

I'm not trying to fall into any pit, and I will agree that Gibson has been great this season and who knows how far down the Ducks would be without him. I'm just simply trying to point out that as good as Gibson has been, Rinne's stats are just a little bit better.

Either way, I hope both can keep up their play. We are hurting badly with Forsberg, Arvidsson, Turris, and Subban on the IR for the forseeable future.

 

[lomiller1]

Stats be damned? I gave you a link to the stats you should be looking at. Save percentage and goals against average are incredibly flawed and shallow metrics.

GAA is incredibly flawed, but sv% is not. In fact it’s very difficult to improve on sv%. Expected sv% (or GSAA) have the potential to be a little better, but in practice it’s implementation dependent.

 

[Static]

GAA is incredibly flawed, but sv% is not. In fact it’s very difficult to improve on sv%. Expected sv% (or GSAA) have the potential to be a little better, but in practice it’s implementation dependent.

The problem with save percentage is the same as with corsi, that is that high danger and low danger shots are weighted as equal.

 

[malton]

Gibson, Rinne, Andersen top 3 right now i would think

 

[Static]

That's the whole nature of the thread though. It is literally talking about the Vezina Trophy, which is voted on by GM's mainly by plain ol' statistics.

I'm not trying to fall into any pit, and I will agree that Gibson has been great this season and who knows how far down the Ducks would be without him. I'm just simply trying to point out that as good as Gibson has been, Rinne's stats are just a little bit better.

Either way, I hope both can keep up their play. We are hurting badly with Forsberg, Arvidsson, Turris, and Subban on the IR for the forseeable future.

The stats don't show that he has been better, the stats show that Nashville as a team has been better.

 

[Bobby Terrance]

No doubt. Bails out the defense every night. He's the only reason they didnt get swept in the playoffs.

What? He was terrible.

 

[BruinsBtn]

What? He was terrible.

42, 40 and 32 saves in the three Leaf wins. First star in all three. They were badly outplayed in all of them. Sure, he could have been better in the losses but he single-handedly won 3 games.

 

[Newsworthy]

GAA is incredibly flawed, but sv% is not. In fact it’s very difficult to improve on sv%. Expected sv% (or GSAA) have the potential to be a little better, but in practice it’s implementation dependent.

Sv% can be a floored stat as well.
Say goalie "A" faces 10 shots and saves them all recording a shutout while goalie "B" faces 50 shots and allows a goal.
It may add up in the end however that same team could have a defense that just protects shots againgst pretty well.
Shots against has to be put into the total equation IMO.
I agree that Frederick Andersen is easily top 3 so far along with Rinne and maybe Gibson. Not sure why Koskinen isn't getting more love so far.

 

[Jetcetera]

I'd say Rinne

 

[BostonBruins11]

He IS the leafs defense.
And he IS the reason they have a good GAA. He makes the Leafs defense appear better than they are.

 

[Mubiki]

I don't watch a lot of Leafs games. Is he playing every night like he did against Minnesota? If he is, then I'm impressed.

 

[Bobby Terrance]

42, 40 and 32 saves in the three Leaf wins. First star in all three. They were badly outplayed in all of them. Sure, he could have been better in the losses but he single-handedly won 3 games.

What's better/worse; allegedly winning 3 on his own or losing 4?

 

[Barzilla]

He IS the leafs defense.
And he IS the reason they have a good GAA. He makes the Leafs defense appear better than they are.

I thought leafs had a top-5 or top-10 defense in the league? Isn’t that what I read here not too long ago?

 

[RogerRoger]

I think Gibson has been better, but Rinne and Andersen have also been really good. It will be a fun race.

 

[Sensin5]

Honestly as a Leaf fan this drives me crazy.

We haven’t won a damn thing. None of our players have won a major award, yet there are those of us who act like we are the undisputed best at whatever random category.

I truly don’t understand it. I want the play of the team to do the talking. I’m very happy with how good the team looks, and this is the most optimistic I’ve ever been as a Leafs fan, but I’m not going to shout about how great this team is, or the players are, until there’s something real to back it up.

Good self-awareness from a good fan of what is currently a good team. Alas, your particular perspective has proven to be anything but contagious after a quick scan of these boards. Sigh.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Rinne is the favorite right now, with Varlamov and Andersen close behind.


But still 2/3 of the season left for these guys to sort out who ends up the best.

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

The irony of @I'mNeverWrong being wrong

What happens if I'mNeverWrong argues with I'mAlwaysRight?

 

[Martin Skoula]

42, 40 and 32 saves in the three Leaf wins. First star in all three. They were badly outplayed in all of them. Sure, he could have been better in the losses but he single-handedly won 3 games.

They just accidentally scored 4 goals I guess.

 

[BruinsBtn]

What's better/worse; allegedly winning 3 on his own or losing 4?

Better is not getting outplayed in all 7 because your defense is a disaster.