Player Discussion Frank Vatrano

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

Marchand/Bergeron/XXX
XXX/Krejci/Backes
Beleksey/Spooner/XXX

Think you do the top three lines like that then fit in Vatrano, Pasta, Heinen, Hayes, whomever where they fit best.

Personally I put Pasta with Bergy and Vatrano with Krejci, then Heinen/Hayes with Spooner.

 

[BruinDust]

Personally, since I think Vatrano can play both wings. I'd like to see him paired with Spooner/Backes.

Spooner takes offensive draws: LW: Vatrano - C: Spooner - RW: Backes
Backes takes defensive draws: LW: Spooner - C: Backes - RW: Vatrano
Best of both worlds; Backes as the vet to influence the younger players; the younger players to keep Backes on his toes.

I like that too.

Can Belesky play the RW?

If they were willing to hand Vesey the LW job on the Krejci line, could Heinen win that spot?

Marchand - Bergeron - Belesky
Heinen - Krejci - Pastrnak
Spooner - Backes - Vatrano

 

[Beesfan]

So how do you shelter those bottom two lines 41 games on the road when the home team gets last change?

Those two lines defensively would get eaten for breakfast.

Well, the point is to carve out three lines that can play well defensively, which would have to be 1,2, and 4. I think we have the depth to ice a good defensive fourth line. Any of the following players are free game for creating combos:

Accari
Nash
Hayes
Randall
Schaller
Ferlin

Also, if we need to pick up a grinder off the waiver wire or in a small trade, I don't think it should be too big an issue.

Also, Hayes performed well in a fourth line role in Florida, and may benefit from a defined role and less pressure.

 

[BruinDust]

Well, the point is to carve out three lines that can play well defensively, which would have to be 1,2, and 4. I think we have the depth to ice a good defensive fourth line. Any of the following players are free game for creating combos:

Accari
Nash
Hayes
Randall
Schaller
Ferlin

Also, if we need to pick up a grinder off the waiver wire or in a small trade, I don't think it should be too big an issue.

Also, Hayes performed well in a fourth line role in Florida, and may benefit from a defined role and less pressure.

The problem with a 4th line of Randell - Nash - Hayes (besides Randell on his off-wing) is Randell sucks defensively, and so does Jimmy Hayes.

Now replace Randell with Schaller, Hayes with Acciari, and keep Nash, and now defensively your 4th line shouldn't be an issue. Might not generate much offense, but shouldn't get embarrassed defending.

 

[tburns21]

I think at the beginning we might see

marchand-bergy-pasta
belesky-krecji-backes
vatrano-spooner-hayes
someone not named rinaldo-acciari-nash

krejci usually seems to enjoy having bulk on both sides, and I think spooner would benefit from having someone quick and offensive minded on his line. vatrano and spooner can get the play moving in the right direction. may also help JH to have two guys make him skate....

i just hope we don't see

march-bergy-HAYES
OR
vatrano-Krecji-HAYES

a lot of articles at the start of the of the offseason seemed to be about hayes absorbing a bigger role and taking on a bigger role.... only time will tell. 2.3M i don't expect 25goals and 40 assists so he's a good 3rd pairing guy if we can get him to sniff close to 20 goals again and add 20-25 helpers.

 

[PB37]

Pretty small sample size to determine Spooner "played well" with Marchand and Bergeron.

It was a small sample size, but you can still determine if he played well in his time with bergeron and Marchand, and he did.
http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins

I don't think it's out of his skillset to play on his offwing

 

[BruinDust]

It was a small sample size, but you can still determine if he played well in his time with bergeron and Marchand, and he did.
http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins

I don't think it's out of his skillset to play on his offwing

I don't think it's out of skill-set either, but outside his skill-set and being the right place for him are two different things.

Nothing will convince me he's better off playing his off-wing than he is his natural wing.

Or that with his weak defensive game he has any business as a full-time option on the Bergeron line the way Claude uses them.

 

[wintersej]

I like that too.

Can Belesky play the RW?

If they were willing to hand Vesey the LW job on the Krejci line, could Heinen win that spot?

Marchand - Bergeron - Belesky
Heinen - Krejci - Pastrnak
Spooner - Backes - Vatrano

Heinen played RW in college the last two years. Would think swapping he and Beleksey would make sense in this setup.

 

[BruinDust]

Heinen played RW in college the last two years. Would think swapping he and Beleksey would make sense in this setup.

To be honest I don't know enough about Heinen's defensive game to say whether or not he'd be a good fit with Bergeron/Marchand. I think I seen the guy play once.

If he can manage it, no problem. Vatrano seemed to be able to gain Claude's trust defensively fairly quickly, maybe Heinen can too.

But if he can't, he shouldn't be on the Bergeron line.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

To be honest I don't know enough about Heinen's defensive game to say whether or not he'd be a good fit with Bergeron/Marchand. I think I seen the guy play once.

If he can manage it, no problem. Vatrano seemed to be able to gain Claude's trust defensively fairly quickly, maybe Heinen can too.

But if he can't, he shouldn't be on the Bergeron line.

Heinen is better defensively than Vatrano IMO. I have seen a fair amount of both and they are very different players. The effort is definitely there defensively for Frankie, and he's not bad defensively, but Heinen seems like a natural 3 zone player. I watched him a fair amount as a freshman and in the NCHC playoffs and NCAA's (unlike a guy like Kyle Connor) he was out there in every situation. Down a goal in the last minute, up a goal in the last minute, PP, PK.

I have no doubt that Heinen could manage playing on the Bergeron line. I was thinking that I would like him on the 3rd line with Spooner and Beleskey, and Pasta with 37 and 63.

 

[KnightofBoston]

While Heinen may be a more natural 3 zone player, he's played 2 professional games to Vatrano's however many (36 in the ahl and can't remember how many in boston) in addition to Vatrano being physically thicker - so I wonder how much of a curve Heinen will have applying his prowess in 3 zones to the professional level

 

[PlayMakers]

To be honest I don't know enough about Heinen's defensive game to say whether or not he'd be a good fit with Bergeron/Marchand. I think I seen the guy play once.

If he can manage it, no problem. Vatrano seemed to be able to gain Claude's trust defensively fairly quickly, maybe Heinen can too.

But if he can't, he shouldn't be on the Bergeron line.

I think you're overstating the defensive importance of that winger with Bergeron and Marchand. I saw you mention that CJ won't play someone there if they're not good defensively and history has shown that not to be the case.

Seguin was terrible in his own zone. Jagr was worse (at least Seguin back checked). Reilly Smith played there in his first full season in the league, when he was still learning CJ's system and NHL defense in general. There's nothing noteworthy about Connolly's defensive game. Or even Mark Recchi for that matter, though he was probably the best of the bunch (and that's not saying muck). Eriksson, who is great defensively, wasn't really used there at all.

Bergeron and Marchand are better 4on5 than most lines 5on5. I think that spot on their RW is a freebie. Anyone can play there. Big/small, fast/slow, old/young, skilled/grinder. They just had their best years with (statistically) the worst RW they've every played with. Give that spot to whichever kid looks the most ready (Heinen) and let him run with the bulls.

 

[PlayMakers]

I've been advocating putting Spooner with Bergeron and Marchand. It gives them the best passer on the RW that they've ever had and probably the 2nd best offensive winger. It also shelters Spooner and puts Backes in the role he's best suited for ( third line center ).

I've wanted to see Spooner on the wing since he was in Providence. Granted, I like my centers to be big, capable two-way guys like Bergeron, Kesler and Backes and less of the old school variety. I think those guys let you spend less time in your own zone and more time on offense than the traditional, one-way, undersized but offensive second C.

I also prefer my speed and skill on the wing. Which again, runs counter to the traditional ideal of big wingers banging in the corners. The way zone entries are designed, the winger is more of a QB than the center, and offensive concepts no longer involve positions like LW/C/RW but F1, F2 and F3. So as long as a line has a big, industrious body in the mix I'm good.

I'd be all for it.

 

[ashnathan]

Re: Frankie, give him the ice time and line mates to excel. Hes too good for Providence and hes not gonna be useful as a grinder, give him time and space and let that shot rip. Im looking at your Mr Krejci.

 

[BruinDust]

I think you're overstating the defensive importance of that winger with Bergeron and Marchand. I saw you mention that CJ won't play someone there if they're not good defensively and history has shown that not to be the case.

Seguin was terrible in his own zone. Jagr was worse (at least Seguin back checked). Reilly Smith played there in his first full season in the league, when he was still learning CJ's system and NHL defense in general. There's nothing noteworthy about Connolly's defensive game. Or even Mark Recchi for that matter, though he was probably the best of the bunch (and that's not saying muck). Eriksson, who is great defensively, wasn't really used there at all.

Bergeron and Marchand are better 4on5 than most lines 5on5. I think that spot on their RW is a freebie. Anyone can play there. Big/small, fast/slow, old/young, skilled/grinder. They just had their best years with (statistically) the worst RW they've every played with. Give that spot to whichever kid looks the most ready (Heinen) and let him run with the bulls.

The difference back then it wasn't a big of a concern as the D was much stronger defensively. Match-ups weren't nowhere near as big of an issue. Julien began to move away a bit last season from rolling 4 lines and using his D for match-ups as often. He realized he doesn't really have the personnel on the back-end to run his D the way he used to.

And they don't have to be extremely strong defensively, just trusted by their coach. There is a difference.

Hence no Spooner or Pastrnak. Seguin by year 2 had some trust there, as did Smith (who was underrated defensively). Connolly had it, as did Stempniak and Recchi.

Jagr I can't comment because he was there more because Seguin was struggling and Julien's options were limited (neither belonged on the 4th line, and he didn't want to bust up Lucic-Krejci-Horton).

Go look at his use last year of Connolly and Stempniak. 82 games and we never saw Pastrnak there, minimal time for Spooner, defensively weak Hayes was rarely used there either. There is a reason for that.

I have no problem with giving Heinen that spot if he's ready, regardless of his defensive game. But I'm not Julien, and that's how Julien is going to roll if he doesn't trust Heinen defensively.

Anyways kid has to make the team first. Like many here I like his chances but I've been fooled before.

 

[Fonzerelli]

As for Frankie, give him the ice time and line mates to excel. Hes too good for Providence and hes not gonna be useful as a grinder, give him time and space and let that shot rip. Im looking at your Mr Krejci.

These are my thoughts exactly. At the very least, the opportunity should be his to mess up to start the season. My money says he thrives in that spot though

 

[ashnathan]

These are my thoughts exactly. At the very least, the opportunity should be his to mess up to start the season. My money says he thrives in that spot though

I think it will be a damn shame if they try to force Beleskey next to Krejci over Frankie. Unless Frankie 'prefers' his off wing then just give him the opportunity and see if he takes it.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

I think it will be a damn shame if they try to force Beleskey next to Krejci over Frankie. Unless Frankie 'prefers' his off wing then just give him the opportunity and see if he takes it.

A shame? As long as Vatrano plays in the top-9, he'll either have Krejci, Bergy, Backes or Spooner as his C. Don't have a problem with any of that.

 

[PlayMakers]

The difference back then it wasn't a big of a concern as the D was much stronger defensively. Match-ups weren't nowhere near as big of an issue. Julien began to move away a bit last season from rolling 4 lines and using his D for match-ups as often. He realized he doesn't really have the personnel on the back-end to run his D the way he used to.

And they don't have to be extremely strong defensively, just trusted by their coach. There is a difference.

Hence no Spooner or Pastrnak. Seguin by year 2 had some trust there, as did Smith (who was underrated defensively). Connolly had it, as did Stempniak and Recchi.

Jagr I can't comment because he was there more because Seguin was struggling and Julien's options were limited (neither belonged on the 4th line, and he didn't want to bust up Lucic-Krejci-Horton).

Go look at his use last year of Connolly and Stempniak. 82 games and we never saw Pastrnak there, minimal time for Spooner, defensively weak Hayes was rarely used there either. There is a reason for that.

I have no problem with giving Heinen that spot if he's ready, regardless of his defensive game. But I'm not Julien, and that's how Julien is going to roll if he doesn't trust Heinen defensively.

Anyways kid has to make the team first. Like many here I like his chances but I've been fooled before.

I appreciate the argument but I can't say I agree. Pasta played about 10% of his shifts with Bergeron, that's second only to Krejci. Spooner didn't really play RW so I don't see the fact that he didn't play much RW on that line as evidence that Julien only wanted strong defensive players there. I mean, the only ice time Spooner might have seen all season at RW was probably the two games he played on their wing.

 

[finchster]

I think you're overstating the defensive importance of that winger with Bergeron and Marchand. I saw you mention that CJ won't play someone there if they're not good defensively and history has shown that not to be the case.

Seguin was terrible in his own zone. Jagr was worse (at least Seguin back checked). Reilly Smith played there in his first full season in the league, when he was still learning CJ's system and NHL defense in general. There's nothing noteworthy about Connolly's defensive game. Or even Mark Recchi for that matter, though he was probably the best of the bunch (and that's not saying muck). Eriksson, who is great defensively, wasn't really used there at all.

Bergeron and Marchand are better 4on5 than most lines 5on5. I think that spot on their RW is a freebie. Anyone can play there. Big/small, fast/slow, old/young, skilled/grinder. They just had their best years with (statistically) the worst RW they've every played with. Give that spot to whichever kid looks the most ready (Heinen) and let him run with the bulls.

The great defensive play of Marchand and Bergeron allows that line to have a weak defensive player on the right wing. I'd like to see Pastrnak on that line because he is a great offensive player and we could get the most out of him when his defensive mistakes will mostly go unpunished. Or some people have stated Spooner, it could be the same situation.

 

[ashnathan]

A shame? As long as Vatrano plays in the top-9, he'll either have Krejci, Bergy, Backes or Spooner as his C. Don't have a problem with any of that.

Yes a shame, Beleskey doesnt gel with Krejci, that much was evident last season. According to my eye test anyway

 

[DitClapper]

Yes a shame, Beleskey doesnt gel with Krejci, that much was evident last season. According to my eye test anyway

Are we going to forget Krejci's tear at the beginning of the season with Beleskey as his LW? I think it's evident that they do gel. Clode rolled them together in the waning games of the year as well.

 

[Pia8988]

Are we going to forget Krejci's tear at the beginning of the season with Beleskey as his LW? I think it's evident that they do gel. Clode rolled them together in the waning games of the year as well.

He did fine, but Beleskey was still only on a 40 point pace after 20 games. Is that good enough for you? Krejci got a good bump from PP numbers which was time away from Beleskey.

 

[Beesfan]

He did fine, but Beleskey was still only on a 40 point pace after 20 games. Is that good enough for you? Krejci got a good bump from PP numbers which was time away from Beleskey.

That's just what Matt Beleskey is. In fact, 40 points would be a career high for him.

Also, recall that Krejci is the second line now. As long as Pastrnak and Krejci bring the bulk of the offense, Beleskey at 40 points is a nice compliment to that line.

 

[BNHL]

That's just what Matt Beleskey is. In fact, 40 points would be a career high for him.

Also, recall that Krejci is the second line now. As long as Pastrnak and Krejci bring the bulk of the offense, Beleskey at 40 points is a nice compliment to that line.

Why?