Recalled/Assigned: Frank Corrado (AHL), Zach Hamill (AHL), and Brendan Gaunce (OHL) sent down

[MS]

You don't know either of that. You're letting emotions get ahead of cold hard logic. Putting any sort of trust into waivers is insane and irresponsible. Why on earth would you take such a meaningless risk? All you're doing is putting the team in a bad position for no real reason.

Alberts was available all summer and nobody was interested. He's been a marginal/bad hockey player for years. He just had the most brutal preseason I've ever seen from a Canuck roster player in a lifetime of following the team. Odds he is claimed off waivers are *exceptionally* minimal. And if someone claims him, IMO that's actually a good thing.

And no, when a guy looks this dreadful, it isn't hard to replace him. There are multiple better players unsigned right now hoping for an NHL contract.

Losing Alberts is not a 'risk'. The organization is better off without him.

Hopefully the team is chasing a guy like Tom Gilbert or Ian White to fill the #6 spot.

 

[Spectrefire]

This guy destroyed his compitition and then got shafted. I have to think he isn't at the very least fustrated by the whole situation.

Why would he be frustrated? The explanation would be super simple.

"Frankie, you did good, but we're going to send you down to Utica because we don't want you wasting away playing 13 minutes a night with no special team time. You're not going to jump the 5 players in front of you and we want you to develop. You'll play 24 mins a night in Utica, in every situation and we want you to be a 30 point defenseman when you come into the NHL."

Bam done. Perfect explanation.

 

[NoShowWilly]

tell me if this is incorrect.

1. The canucks claim a defenseman
2. waive alberts on the hope he clears. if he doesn't then we have a similar defenseman to him.
3. If he does pass through then this team is now in the clear for the season with 8 defenseman and can bring corrado back up as their #6.
4. They can then waive new defenseman. Likely he gets claimed but if not then we have 9 defensemen.

 

[MS]

You aren't normally one to panic MS. Lets wait and see how it pans out over a week or so.

Yeah, we'll see what happen.

Part of the frustration comes from having seen this movie before in 2007 with Edler and Raymond.

'Panic' isn't the right word. I'm ticked off at the politics and unjustness of the situation, and amazed at how the actions of management so completely contradict what they said heading into camp. And dismayed that Alberts is still on the roster.

 

[Spectrefire]

Yeah, we'll see what happen.

Part of the frustration comes from having seen this movie before in 2007 with Edler and Raymond.

'Panic' isn't the right word. I'm ticked off at the politics and unjustness of the situation, and amazed at how the actions of management so completely contradict what they said heading into camp. And dismayed that Alberts is still on the roster.

I don't understand why you would be dismayed that Corrado isn't better off in Utica. Canucks wants him to learn offense, he'll learn offense in Utica, he won't in Vancouver.

 

[MS]

Why would he be frustrated? The explanation would be super simple.

"Frankie, you did good, but we're going to send you down to Utica because we don't want you wasting away playing 13 minutes a night with no special team time. You're not going to jump the 5 players in front of you and we want you to develop. You'll play 24 mins a night in Utica, in every situation and we want you to be a 30 point defenseman when you come into the NHL."

Bam done. Perfect explanation.

You honestly think he won't be frustrated?

Every competitive person wants to play at the highest level, and I can guarantee EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE NHL would rather play 5 minutes/game as a fringe player at this level than be a dominant AHL player. Corrado was in the NHL last year, and would have been training the entire offseason with the expectation he could make the team.

And this is even before getting into the fact that he earns $600k in the NHL and $65k in the AHL. This is costing him a ton of money, that he should be earning based on his performance.

 

[Spectrefire]

You honestly think he won't be frustrated?

Every competitive person wants to play at the highest level, and I can guarantee EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE NHL would rather play 5 minutes/game as a fringe player at this level than be a dominant AHL player. Corrado was in the NHL last year, and would have been training the entire offseason with the expectation he could make the team.

And this is even before getting into the fact that he earns $600k in the NHL and $65k in the AHL. This is costing him a ton of money, that he should be earning based on his performance.

I think he'd be a little frustrated, but I don't think he'll give it that much thought at all. He knows he has a huge future with this team, the team is giving him an opportunity to be an even better defenseman. I would be more concerned if he legitimately thought he couldn't learn anything at the AHL level.

 

[MS]

I don't understand why you would be dismayed that Corrado isn't better off in Utica. Canucks wants him to learn offense, he'll learn offense in Utica, he won't in Vancouver.

Again :

1) I think he showed well enough that it was apparent he could play a regular shift in the NHL and be a key contributor. And I'd say he'd develop better at this level under those circumstances than in the AHL.

2) I believe that the best players should make the team out of training camp, and that there should be fair competition for roster spots.

3) I want the NHL team to win games, and Corrado in our top 6 gives us the best chance to do that.

 

[Pip]

Why would he be frustrated? The explanation would be super simple.

"Frankie, you did good, but we're going to send you down to Utica because we don't want you wasting away playing 13 minutes a night with no special team time. You're not going to jump the 5 players in front of you and we want you to develop. You'll play 24 mins a night in Utica, in every situation and we want you to be a 30 point defenseman when you come into the NHL."

Bam done. Perfect explanation.

But coach, I see that all of these guys are signed long term, the best I can do is eventually leapfrog Tanev. I don't understand what I need to work on at the AHL level, considering that I did very well last year with Edler playing top 4 minutes. All I needed to do was bulk up and become more aggressive which I did.

It's never simple to tell someone that they don't get to play in the NHL for reasons other than their play.

 

[Spectrefire]

Again :

1) I think he showed well enough that it was apparent he could play a regular shift in the NHL and be a key contributor. And I'd say he'd develop better at this level under those circumstances than in the AHL.

I don't agree with this and on a weaker team, he'd absolutely be in the roster. But he's not going to jump Edler, Bieksa, Garrison, Hamhuis or Tanev on this team, and 13 minutes a game is developmentally BAD for a 20 year old defenseman. You want to condition him to log 20+ minutes to be an effective NHL defenseman, and he's not going to do that here. The AHL did wonders for Tanev's game, especially his offensive game, I don't see why the same wouldn't happen for Corrado.

But coach, I see that all of these guys are signed long term, the best I can do is eventually leapfrog Tanev. I don't understand what I need to work on at the AHL level, considering that I did very well last year with Edler playing top 4 minutes. All I needed to do was bulk up and become more aggressive which I did.

It's never simple to tell someone that they don't get to play in the NHL for reasons other than their play.

I don't think Corrado is nearly stupid enough to say or believe any of that.

 

[RobertKron]

Versions of this situation happen basically every year. Last year it was Schroeder. In 11-12 it was Tanev, IIRC.

Unless he's going to make the #5 spot, the tradeoff in terms of development for Corrado vs downgrade at the #6 position is likely worthwhile. If Weber and Alberts stink up the joint, then Corrado is a phone call away. It sucks for him, and is likely extremely frustrating, but in the long run it likely won't hurt for him to be the main guy in the AHL for a bit.

 

[yoss]

I didn't see this thread, but the following is copy/pasted from the PGT;

I don't know the logistics or business side of it necessarily, but to me Corrado was the better of the 3 between him Alberts and Weber. They did say the young guys would get preference if they played well enough to earn a spot, so to me those are conflicting messages.

Despite the goal tonight I just think Corrado looks much steadier and defensively reliable out there than Alberts or Weber. Better speed, better passing out of the neutral zone, I don't get that nervous feeling watching him like i do with Weber & especially Alberts.

Idk, I'm no NHL coach I guess we'll see what unfolds, but tbh I'm hoping to see Corrado with the team sooner than later. He just looks like the better player, and I believe you should play the best players.

I'm willing to give Weber a shot though, there are some things I've liked about his play. I don't ever want to see that Alberts - Weber pairing again as long as i live however, to think that is a real possibility this year if there are a couple injuries makes me nervous.

 

[Pip]

I don't think Corrado is nearly stupid enough to say or believe any of that.

He may not outright say it, but it's not exactly unreasonable objections. Is there an open top 4 spot in the foreseeable future? No. Is Corrado good enough to play in the NHL now? Yes.

I find that playing bottom pairing in the NHL can do good things for your development, and is not the same as a forward prospect playing on the fourth line. Perhaps Torts wants to lean heavily on his top 4, but I would argue that he wouldn't need to if he kept Corrado up.

 

[Spectrefire]

He may not outright say it, but it's not exactly unreasonable objections. Is there an open top 4 spot in the foreseeable future? No. Is Corrado good enough to play in the NHL now? Yes.

I find that playing bottom pairing in the NHL can do good things for your development, and is not the same as a forward prospect playing on the fourth line. Perhaps Torts wants to lean heavily on his top 4, but I would argue that he wouldn't need to if he kept Corrado up.

You're making it sound as if he won't play for the Canucks at all this season. I can almost guarantee you that he'll play half the season in Vancouver with the injuries we're bound to get, and he'll absolutely be in the top six for playoffs. So what's the problem with sending him down to the AHL for the other half of the season and letting him play more minutes as much as possible?

If the Canucks feel like they'll need him to win games, he will absolutely be up. They've already proven that last year by burning a year of his ELC. Trust me when I say, he won't likely be down there for all too long.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

This should put to rest any arguments that the GM doesn't get involved in roster decisions.

It is what it is despite its unfairness.

 

[Pip]

I understand that, but I am off the mindset that you ice the best roster possible, and work from there. Sitting Corrado to save a worse player just seems ridiculous to me.

 

[RobertKron]

I understand that, but I am off the mindset that you ice the best roster possible, and work from there. Sitting Corrado to save a worse player just seems ridiculous to me.

But year after year, all around the league we're shown that this is simply not necessarily the way things are done at this time of year. "Numbers game" cuts where players are cut because there's X number of guys on one-ways, or because of waiver eligibility, or whatever other reason are not uncommon. They get told that if they go work hard they'll get their chance in time. These players also know this is part of the reality of the situation, and have likely been prepared for it.

 

[Spectrefire]

I understand that, but I am off the mindset that you ice the best roster possible, and work from there. Sitting Corrado to save a worse player just seems ridiculous to me.

Maybe if you managed a video game hockey team, but this isn't video games, this is real life, and there's much more factors going into it that just simply icing the best players. Like I said, it's irresponsible to throw away an asset just to play a player who's immune to waivers.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I understand that, but I am off the mindset that you ice the best roster possible, and work from there. Sitting Corrado to save a worse player just seems ridiculous to me.

I agree. I also don't see the harm in him playing at the NHL vs the AHL.

Much of what happens isnt purely the coaches decision.

 

[shottasasa]

This guy destroyed his compitition and then got shafted. I have to think he isn't at the very least fustrated by the whole situation.

I disagree, no one got shafted. This kid is 20 years old, a very good prospect but he has no right to be pissed that he is going to be sent down. This is not permanent, listen to Torts, he says he could be back by Christmas.

He has shown what he can do, he played well but he didn't destroy anyone, just played a bit better and proved that he can at least be a serviceable NHL Dman but i think the coach and management want more from him than just servicable, they want him to develop into a top 3 defenceman and some time in the AHL will probably help him develop at a faster pace. He will not play in the top 5 this yer unless there is an injury, in which case he is likely to get the call. There is a distinct possibility he could be top 6 come playoffs.

Why would Torts and MG shoot themselves in the foot and by putting an asset on the waiver wire before they have a solution. It won't be surprising if there are a few moves left before the roster is set.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I disagree, no one got shafted. This kid is 20 years old, a very good prospect but he has no right to be pissed that he is going to be sent down. This is not permanent, listen to Torts, he says he could be back by Christmas.

He has shown what he can do, he played well but he didn't destroy anyone, just played a bit better and proved that he can at least be a serviceable NHL Dman but i think the coach and management want more from him than just servicable, they want him to develop into a top 3 defenceman and some time in the AHL will probably help him develop at a faster pace. He will not play in the top 5 this yer unless there is an injury, in which case he is likely to get the call. There is a distinct possibility he could be top 6 come playoffs.

Why would Torts and MG shoot themselves in the foot and by putting an asset on the waiver wire before they have a solution. It won't be surprising if there are a few moves left before the roster is set.

I haven't watched any preseason but from all indications Corrado was the better player which in an ideal world he would be on the team.

His age is completely irrelevant. His experience is pretty much irrelevant.

Life is unfortunately unfair be it politics or other factors that prevent the best option from playing.

 

[RobertKron]

It also depends very much on how they're presenting it to him. I doubt they're just telling him he wasn't good enough. He's likely being given very specific elements of his game that they'd like him to hone in the minors, and they'll probably explain to him why they'd rather he being doing it down there in a major role than up in Vancouver.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I agree. I also don't see the harm in him playing at the NHL vs the AHL.

Much of what happens isnt purely the coaches decision.

Yet, much of it is: Re: Ballard. Goes both ways.

 

[stevecanuck16]

Doesn't anyone remember the freakout this board had last year when Jordan Schroeder got sent down? Some sensible posters said it was just because he wasn't eligible for waivers, but the sky-is-falling crew were out in full force. Sure enough, Schroeder was recalled immediately after some shuffling.

Waiver-eligibility matters a lot, and it makes no sense to lose an asset like Alberts or Weber if we don't have to. I don't think it's the end of the world if Corrado spends some time in Utica, but I think we'll likely see Weber or Alberts snuck through waivers closer to the start of the season, and Corrado recalled. Just like Schroeder last year.

Even if you don't think that will happen, can we at least agree to cool our jets for a bit? The roster is not finished until October 3rd.

 

[Pip]

There is a good chance I'm blowing this way out of proportion, I just feel like losing an "asset" like Andrew Alberts to waivers isn't something to worry about. There are plenty of d guys avaliable of his caliber. Obviously other factors come into play, but in this case I see the rewards of keeping Corrrado up worth the potential risks.

I also disagree with "a bit better". Corrado significantly outplayed Alberts this preseason, and was clearly better than Weber. Weber had a very good game, where he managed to unleash his cannon, but overal his defensive plan is meh, and he can't carry a pairing.