FOOTBALL! Pro/College/etc. Still undefeated!

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pete Carroll, Hoodie, Harbaugh (I hate him, but he's at least Tomlin's equal), Andy Reid, Sean Payton are all clearly Tomlin or better. That's five right there that are easy to argue over him. They may not actually be better (except Hoodie, obviously) but it's not hard to argue. Tomlin hasn't won shit for 10 years. If we are raising banners for non-losing seasons we are the Capitals of the NHL.

If you want to say it's easier to do worse than it is to do better than him, I'd agree. But, there are young coaches like Brian Flores, Sean McDermott (not so young, but not old), Shanahan, McVey that I'd love to see here in Pittsburgh to see if they could get a different result than the consistent better than average that we've seen for a decade.

I'm not sure if it's worth the risk to fire him/let him walk because you can just as easily get Pat Shurmur as you can Sean McVey. I trusted Dan Rooney to pick a coach. I don't really trust Art II.

Tomlin would have never been around this long if he didn’t work for the Rooneys and have Roth.

He is a great talent evaluator and apparently a great motivator.

Anyone who claims he’s a good game day manager or Xs and Os guy, I’ll flat out tell them they don’t know what they are watching.

Steelers win on talent, not great coaching. That’s just reality.

However, aside from Roth, Tomlin has a huge hand in helping find that talent.

So as much as he pisses me off with his poor coaching, I do really appreciate his keen eye for talent.

 

[RustyRazor]

Tomlin would have never been around this long if he didn’t work for the Rooneys and have Roth.

He is a great talent evaluator and apparently a great motivator.

Anyone who claims he’s a good game day manager or Xs and Os guy, I’ll flat out tell them they don’t know what they are watching.

Steelers win on talent, not great coaching. That’s just reality.

However, aside from Roth, Tomlin has a huge hand in helping find that talent.

So as much as he pisses me off with his poor coaching, I do really appreciate his keen eye for talent.

Totally agree, so it's a situation where you take the good with the bad. The part that pisses me off the most is the part where they don't strive to put coordinators in place to maximize the talent they have. That's on Tomlin too.

 

[DanielPlainview]

The Steelers have drafted consistently well under Colbert. It’s though to say how much input Tomlin has, but they didn’t have any first round bombs under Colbert till the Tomlin era and the likes of Jarvis Jones, Ziggy Hood, and Artie Burns.

 

[RustyRazor]

The Steelers have drafted consistently well under Colbert. It’s though to say how much input Tomlin has, but they didn’t have any first round bombs under Colbert till the Tomlin era and the likes of Jarvis Jones, Ziggy Hood, and Artie Burns.

Kendall Simmons was a huge whiff. 1 for 7 under Cowher; 3 for 14 under Tomlin. I'm not seeing a difference worth torches and pitchforks.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

In a weird way I hope we drop this game to Jacksonville. We always loose to a team we shouldn’t. And do not get me wrong I love the undefeated ride we are having, but I think the team would be better being humbled for a moment rolling into Baltimore the following week. I’d much rather choke job a Jacksonville lose then beat Baltimore coming out to prove something and taking pure without debate command of the division than just rolling a record for the sake of record. And maybe they win both and we go 11 - 0, but I do feel like this team needs to taste some loss to keep the hunger. I could be completely wrong.

 

[Rakell67]

In a weird way I hope we drop this game to Jacksonville. We always loose to a team we shouldn’t. And do not get me wrong I love the undefeated ride we are having, but I think the team would be better being humbled for a moment rolling into Baltimore the following week. I’d much rather choke job a Jacksonville lose then beat Baltimore coming out to prove something and taking pure without debate command of the division than just rolling a record for the sake of record. And maybe they win both and we go 11 - 0, but I do feel like this team needs to taste some loss to keep the hunger. I could be completely wrong.

I think Buffalo has a shot at beating them.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I think almost losing to Dallas humbled them, tbh. Just let the guys keep having fun. We’ve never seen this from the Steelers before, so just enjoy it. Only 1 team wins it all and there are some absolute monsters in the league this year.

Just be happy to be watching winning football and the last year or two of our HoF QB. Because like I’ve said for a while now, dark times are on the horizon when Ben is gone.

 

[xlm34]

I think almost losing to Dallas humbled them, tbh. Just let the guys keep having fun. We’ve never seen this from the Steelers before, so just enjoy it. Only 1 team wins it all and there are some absolute monsters in the league this year.

Just be happy to be watching winning football and the last year or two of our HoF QB. Because like I’ve said for a while now, dark times are on the horizon when Ben is gone.

Yup this is the attitude I’m taking this year. Do I think they’re gonna win it all? Past performance in the playoffs tells me no. Can I still enjoy what’s happening? Absolutely.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Steelers have drafted consistently well under Colbert. It’s though to say how much input Tomlin has, but they didn’t have any first round bombs under Colbert till the Tomlin era and the likes of Jarvis Jones, Ziggy Hood, and Artie Burns.

Tomlin has as much input as Colbert, from everything I’ve read about their drafting process.

Kendall Simmons was a huge whiff. 1 for 7 under Cowher; 3 for 14 under Tomlin. I'm not seeing a difference worth torches and pitchforks.

Cowher wanted to take Andrews over Roth.

Thankfully Rooney stepped in before Cowher made another tragic Marino type mistake that would haunt the franchise for generations.

I also don’t blame Tomlin for the JJ pick.

That draft class was abysmal. You can only pick from the available crop in a given year, and that was a historically atrocious one.

The fact he pulled Bell and Williams out of that steaming pile is a testament to his eye for talent.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Pete Carroll, Hoodie, Harbaugh (I hate him, but he's at least Tomlin's equal), Andy Reid, Sean Payton are all clearly Tomlin or better. That's five right there that are easy to argue over him. They may not actually be better (except Hoodie, obviously) but it's not hard to argue. Tomlin hasn't won shit for 10 years. If we are raising banners for non-losing seasons we are the Capitals of the NHL.

If you want to say it's easier to do worse than it is to do better than him, I'd agree. But, there are young coaches like Brian Flores, Sean McDermott (not so young, but not old), Shanahan, McVey that I'd love to see here in Pittsburgh to see if they could get a different result than the consistent better than average that we've seen for a decade.

I'm not sure if it's worth the risk to fire him/let him walk because you can just as easily get Pat Shurmur as you can Sean McVey. I trusted Dan Rooney to pick a coach. I don't really trust Art II.

BB is clearly the best coach at the moment. No arguing that.
Reid has been Tomlin for 20+ years before Mahomes landed on his lap.
If people here hate Tomlin they would surely despise Payton. He's accomplished less with a superior QB.
I'd put Tomlin, Payton, Reid, Harbaugh in that 2nd tier of HC's.

I used to think Carroll is an elite coach, but then I realized that it's easy to win when Wilson drags you to wins every year. That roster has literally no good players besides Russ and Wagner.

McVay, Shanahan, McDermott are good coaches, no doubt. But many coaches have had short term success. Having long term success that Tomlin is having is almost unheard of. These 3 have a long way to go before they can be considered on Tomlin's level.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I also don’t blame Tomlin for the JJ pick.

That draft class was abysmal. You can only pick from the available crop in a given year, and that was a historically atrocious one.

The fact he pulled Bell and Williams out of that steaming pile is a testament to his eye for talent.

Kyle Long, Eifert, Trufant, Deandre Hopkins, Patterson, Ertz, Slay.

If you mean for LB for sure. I think they learned their lesson that they can't be set on a position and draft BPA. But then they did it with CB a few years later.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Tomlin would have never been around this long if he didn’t work for the Rooneys and have Roth.

He is a great talent evaluator and apparently a great motivator.

Anyone who claims he’s a good game day manager or Xs and Os guy, I’ll flat out tell them they don’t know what they are watching.

Steelers win on talent, not great coaching. That’s just reality.

However, aside from Roth, Tomlin has a huge hand in helping find that talent.

So as much as he pisses me off with his poor coaching, I do really appreciate his keen eye for talent.

Talent is nice, but talent doesn't win you games. This isn't basketball.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Kyle Long, Eifert, Trufant, Deandre Hopkins, Patterson, Ertz, Slay.

If you mean for LB for sure. I think they learned their lesson that they can't be set on a position and draft BPA. But then they did it with CB a few years later.

Throwing out a few names means nothing. When you have to reach for names like Eifert and Patterson, that should be a huge red flag.

That pool of talent was one of the worst the league had seen since I started following the draft:

The 2013 NFL Draft: The Worst First Round Ever?

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/galle...ric-fisher-geno-smith-cleveland-browns-042417

Tomlin pulled the best player out of this pile of shit in Bell... he deserves props, not condemnation for grabbing a bust in the first round when almost every first rounder blew.

Talent is nice, but talent doesn't win you games. This isn't basketball.

If talent doesn’t win games, why isn’t Hoodie winning now?

He has been a shitty drafter and no longer has Brady...

Talent (Ie Roth) literally won those games agt Dallas and Baltimore when poor coaching almost tanked them.

 

[Pengwins]

Throwing out a few names means nothing.

That pool of talent was one of the worst the league had seen since I started following the draft:

The 2013 NFL Draft: The Worst First Round Ever?

.

Yeah, that was a very weak 1st round there

 

[RustyRazor]

Throwing out a few names means nothing. When you have to reach for names like Eifert and Patterson, that should be a huge red flag.

That pool of talent was one of the worst the league had seen since I started following the draft:

The 2013 NFL Draft: The Worst First Round Ever?

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/galle...ric-fisher-geno-smith-cleveland-browns-042417

Tomlin pulled the best player out of this pile of shit in Bell... he deserves props, not condemnation for grabbing a bust in the first round when almost every first rounder blew.

That's true. I hadn't looked at the overall draft classes. So then Colbert/Cowher and Colbert/Tomlin whiffed at the exact same rate. This isn't even my hill to die on, I think its obvious that the Steelers do a better job than most teams of drafting.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's true. I hadn't looked at the overall draft classes. So then Colbert/Cowher and Colbert/Tomlin whiffed at the exact same rate. This isn't even my hill to die on, I think its obvious that the Steelers do a better job than most teams of drafting.

I posted a link awhile back, but the Steelers were the second best drafting team since 2000, with the Ravens barely besting them.

Ravens have had the benefit of picking higher in a number of those years, however... having 3 natural top 10 picks to the Steelers one.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Tomlin pulled the best player out of this pile of shit in Bell... he deserves props, not condemnation for grabbing a bust in the first round when almost every first rounder blew.

Hopkins has had a better career than Bell.

 

[T1K]

Hopkins has had a better career than Bell.

He also was taken 21 picks higher than Bell

 

[RustyRazor]

I posted a link awhile back, but the Steelers were the second best drafting team since 2000, with the Ravens barely besting them.

Ravens have had the benefit of picking higher in a number of those years, however... having 3 natural top 10 picks to the Steelers one.

Yes, unlike the Steelers the Ravens are good for one tank year every 4 years or so.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hopkins has had a better career than Bell.

Better career ya... given that Bell sat out a year and then went to the Jets.

When Bell was a Steeler, he was easily the most productive and impactful player from that draft.

He was on pace to become a legendary RB with a HOF resume as a Steeler.

What Bell did after he left the Steelers, who cares.

Steelers also had Brown and Sanders on the roster going into that draft, so blaming Tomlin for not taking Hopkins is kind of asinine.

That was the worst draft in the last 30 years and Tomlin pulled the best player out of it and a legit starter in Williams.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Colbert/Cowher:

• 2000 - Plaxico Burress
• 2001 - Casey Hampton
• 2002 - Kendall Simmons
• 2003 - Troy Polamalu
• 2004 - Ben Roethlisberger
• 2005 - Heath Miller
• 2006 - Santonio Holmes

Colbert/Tomlin:

• 2007 - Lawrence Timmons
• 2008 - Rashard Mendenhall
• 2009 - Ziggy Hood
• 2010 - Maurkice Pouncey
• 2011 - Cameron Heyward
• 2012 - David DeCastro
• 2013 - Jarvis Jones
• 2014 - Ryan Shazier
• 2015 - Bud Dupree
• 2016 - Artie Burns
• 2017 - TJ Watt
• 2018 - Terrell Edmunds
• 2019 - Devin Bush

For me, there’s a definite split; one can see a definite change in direction. Tomlin-era has more guys who were overpicked, the unexpected guy who Tomlin thought he could develop but never did: Edmunds, Burns, Jones, Hood, Mendenhall. (And I’m not entirely sold on Dupree - he didn’t “emerge” till Watt got there and Nelson, Haden, and Fitzpatrick were added to the secondary.)

 

[Khelandros]

BB is clearly the best coach at the moment. No arguing that.
Reid has been Tomlin for 20+ years before Mahomes landed on his lap.
If people here hate Tomlin they would surely despise Payton. He's accomplished less with a superior QB.
I'd put Tomlin, Payton, Reid, Harbaugh in that 2nd tier of HC's.

I used to think Carroll is an elite coach, but then I realized that it's easy to win when Wilson drags you to wins every year. That roster has literally no good players besides Russ and Wagner.

McVay, Shanahan, McDermott are good coaches, no doubt. But many coaches have had short term success. Having long term success that Tomlin is having is almost unheard of. These 3 have a long way to go before they can be considered on Tomlin's level.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. I think you are forgetting the GOAT and future HOF D.K. Metcalf.

 

[RustyRazor]

Colbert/Cowher:

• 2000 - Plaxico Burress
• 2001 - Casey Hampton
• 2002 - Kendall Simmons
• 2003 - Troy Polamalu
• 2004 - Ben Roethlisberger
• 2005 - Heath Miller
• 2006 - Santonio Holmes

Colbert/Tomlin:

• 2007 - Lawrence Timmons
• 2008 - Rashard Mendenhall
• 2009 - Ziggy Hood
• 2010 - Maurkice Pouncey
• 2011 - Cameron Heyward
• 2012 - David DeCastro
• 2013 - Jarvis Jones
• 2014 - Ryan Shazier
• 2015 - Bud Dupree
• 2016 - Artie Burns
• 2017 - TJ Watt
• 2018 - Terrell Edmunds
• 2019 - Devin Bush

For me, there’s a definite split; one can see a definite change in direction. Tomlin-era has more guys who were overpicked, the unexpected guy who Tomlin thought he could develop but never did: Edmunds, Burns, Jones, Hood, Mendenhall. (And I’m not entirely sold on Dupree - he didn’t “emerge” till Watt got there and Nelson, Haden, and Fitzpatrick were added to the secondary.)

Looked at the same list. You said "bust." Overpicked is a different story

I'm not sure what your argument is. If Tomlin sucks at talent evaluation, then he must be a good coach to get the results that he has. If he sucks at coaching then then he must be good at picking players to even win any games. If he sucks at both then the Steelers must be the Jets.

 

[DanielPlainview]

No, that’s poor logic. Colbert supplies most of the talent, as he did for Cowher. If you go back and compare the Donahoe/Cowher era it makes it even more obvious that Colbert is mostly responsible for the draft success. Colbert does however give his HC his ear and will make a pick they want.

Tomlin has a knack for thinking he’s better at his job than he actually is. The busts (or overpicks, whichever term you want to use) all have Tomlin’s signature on them.

 

[xlm34]

Hood, Mendenhall, and Jones weren’t over drafted at all. They went basically where they were projected to go. Hood and Jones didn’t end up working out and Mendenhall had a few 1,000 yard seasons so he wasn’t a total bust.

Burns and Edmunds seem like they were over picked, but Edmunds actually seems like he’s turning things around. Maybe he isn’t performing at a super high level but he’s turning in to a decent compliment to Fitzpatrick. Arguing about his coaching is fine, but the draft thing just seems like a weird way to try to discredit Tomlin more.