Friedman: Flyers working with Seattle to move a High Salary Player (Potentially Voracek)

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Voracek is exactly the kind of guy I would want on my team for a deep playoff run. Love that guy. That said, it's probs likely he ends up on the Kraken in some capacity. But still...I can dream...

 

[captainpaxil]

I haven't looked into it too much with other teams lists but is there even a better player being exposed in the expansion draft? I mean sure if you look at some of the ahl metrics nak could possibly be a moneyball sleeper but if it's anything close to best player available how many top line forwards are even out there for the taking

 

[markog]

So you’d be fine with Seattle taking NAK, Braun or Hagg?

Yes, because they will suck for few years anyway. They won't be the new Vegas and you can keep JVR and Voracek to get another lottery ticket.

 

[brewski420]

Voracek and JVR are great players that most any team would want but the fact remains in a flat cap spread of years teams cannot afford them and that includes the Kraken (and apparently the Flyers). They will not carry a line let alone a team imo. They need to be with other very good players and I don't see how Seattle gets the players needed to make taking either one of them reasonable. That is without an incentive to improve the team in the long run (draft picks). So taking a lessor player (role player that is younger) seems to be the smarter play for GMRF imo.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Overpaid, aging 20 goal scorer signed for 3 more seasons. Sign me up !

 

[Prongo]

Overpaid, aging 20 goal scorer signed for 3 more seasons. Sign me up !

Yes! That’s the only way we know how to judge NHL or hockey players in general. How many goals did he score? There are no other contributions he can make unless he’s scoring.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Actually it is. It is very comparable.

Is that it, then? Just make an empty statement with no supporting evidence and expect people to take your word for it?

 

[Blaine8797]

You’d think voracek is Jeff skinner the way some of these guys are goin on, the guy led the flyers in points last season and has been a top 10 rw scorer for the last 5 years, his cap hits a bit much but the guy still produces very well, any team Voracek joins he automatically makes better

 

[FlyguyOX]

No but they should expect fair compensation for helping other teams out with their cap problems. If a team wants them to choose an expensive forward who will chew up a significant amount of cap space over an extended period of time Seattle should realistically expect a competitive package of picks coming their way as well.

a teams leading scorer is hardly a “cap problem”

 

[brewski420]

a teams leading scorer is hardly a “cap problem”

Then why is this even being discussed, leading scorer and all?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Then why is this even being discussed, leading scorer and all?

Because despite how good Voracek is, he has one of the largest salaries - and we need that space for a top D. Same goes for JVR, but people have really latched onto trying to say Voracek has no value (for some stupid reason).

It's not commentary on his game...he's still very good. It's just that we have a lot of wingers and the team is aware enough to know Dougie Hamilton at 8+ mill is more important going forward than Jake Voracek at 8+ mill (or JVR at 7 mill).

 

[FlyguyOX]

Then why is this even being discussed, leading scorer and all?

Roster shakeup is needed for the sake of change. Team is also heavy on wingers and needs a top pair RHD badly.

 

[abo9]

If Flyers leave Voracek exposed... who else do they have exposed that Seattle would take over him, despite salary?

 

[brewski420]

Then why is this even being discussed, leading scorer and all?

Because despite how good Voracek is, he has one of the largest salaries - and we need that space for a top D. Same goes for JVR, but people have really latched onto trying to say Voracek has no value (for some stupid reason).

It's not commentary on his game...he's still very good. It's just that we have a lot of wingers and the team is aware enough to know Dougie Hamilton at 8+ mill is more important going forward than Jake Voracek at 8+ mill (or JVR at 7 mill).

Roster shakeup is needed for the sake of change. Team is also heavy on wingers and needs a top pair RHD badly.

Still sounds like a cap issue to me and one that mainly Seattle is in a position to help out with. Whether the player is good or not (I have stated I think they are) is really irrelevant. Other teams, particularly contenders, may want them as well but have the same flat cap issue needing to shed salary to get him. As I have stated before taking Voracek or JVR does not make great sense to a team that is not 'rebuilding' but actually just beginning to build. Francis may decide to take one with no sweetener but I would be surprised.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

If Flyers leave Voracek exposed... who else do they have exposed that Seattle would take over him, despite salary?

JVR, Ghost, NAK or Hagg are all other options.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Still sounds like a cap issue to me and one that mainly Seattle is in a position to help out with. Whether the player is good or not (I have stated I think they are) is really irrelevant. Other teams, particularly contenders, may want them as well but have the same flat cap issue needing to shed salary to get him. As I have stated before taking Voracek or JVR does not make great sense to a team that is not 'rebuilding' but actually just beginning to build. Francis may decide to take one with no sweetener but I would be surprised.

The validity of your comment went right out the window when you insisted that a player's on-ice performance is irrelevant to a trade discussion, flat-cap or no flat-cap.

 

[brewski420]

The validity of your comment went right out the window when you insisted that a player's on-ice performance is irrelevant to a trade discussion, flat-cap or no flat-cap.

You cannot take the cap implications out of the discussion regardless of player performance. The cap is the very reason the Flyers may be interested in parting ways with your leading scorer. I obviously left out the age of the player as well which directly relates to eventual decline in performance.

What's so hard about admitting that Seattle could really help out the Flyers by taking said player and why should they do it if it is not in their plans or best interest. I think a bunch of teams would like the same assistance from Seattle with a thirty something old highly performing player with a big cap hit. Philadelphia is not unique to this cap issue.

 

[eramosat]

Wow, some real hot takes in this thread. Looking at some facts first:
Philly's generally accepted protected lists expose, in general order of useability: JVR, Aube Kubel, Ghost, Braun, Hagg, etc
At same time, this protects the following "bubble" players: at forward - Voracek, Patrick, Lindblom at D - Meyers
Almost 100% of Kraken drafts I have seen not trying to account for side deals to fiddle with likely protected lists results in 2 things : Kraken select JVR from the Flyers and JVR ends up being one of, if not the, most reliable top 6 forward selected. JVR is a good choice for Kraken, and he's likely to be exposed by the Flyers, according to all the published models out there. For what it's worth.

So, saying that the Flyers are trying to work out a side deal somehow that allows Flyers to unload Voracek instead of JVR means Flyers are trying to unload 3 x $8.25 instead of 2 x $7, for a practical cap hit difference of $1.25 that the Flyers would get to splurge on in the their free agent search. So how much is $1.25 worth to entice Seattle to do that favor for the Flyers? Well, it ain't anything approaching a first rounder, that's for certain.

IF you think Kraken are instead posturing they'll select someone else cheaper, like Aube Kubel at 1 x $1.075, then (a) if Flyers believe that and (b) they need the cap money desperately to hunt big UFA game....well yeah, it may make more sense. But you think Kraken can pull that decpetion off? It only makes sense if Flyers GM is big game UFA hunting, and he KNOWS his target and what he's worth and what he'll accept AND that the Kraken are actually gonna select Aube Kubel instead of the more expensive options Flyers will dangle. That's a lot of conditions to satisfy before accepting Flyers have to sweeten the pot for the Kraken

We haven't even explored the idea that both Voracek and JVR actually have significant positive upside for the Flyers still, even if you think they're "overpaid". Overpaid is the apt descriptor for 80% of their peers in the NHL on final years of long-term contracts for the best players in the NHL at every position. Nothing exceptional about it, teams going in have to pay going rates for these contracts, and every fanbase complains that the last 2/3/4 years of these normal deals will be a regret. Well, duh.

There is certainly fertile ground for Kraken and Flyers to discuss the situation. Flyers might be trying to move Ghost along too, who knows? But I think it's very doubtful Flyers will actually pay anything more to persuade the Kraken to take a particular player. Too many other factors have to line up perfectly before it makes much sense.

 

[flyerslducks]

You cannot take the cap implications out of the discussion regardless of player performance. The cap is the very reason the Flyers may be interested in parting ways with your leading scorer. I obviously left out the age of the player as well which directly relates to eventual decline in performance.

What's so hard about admitting that Seattle could really help out the Flyers by taking said player and why should they do it if it is not in their plans or best interest. I think a bunch of teams would like the same assistance from Seattle with a thirty something old highly performing player with a big cap hit. Philadelphia is not unique to this cap issue.

I don't see how it would be a big problem at all for Seattle if they take on a few years of voracek. They can easily take on the cap, take probably one of the best offensive players available to them, and get another top asset from Philly. You guys will most likely select a lot of low term/$ contracts as well + can always move him later on for another high pick as well.

Also, he was tied in leading the flyers scoring...he wasn't the leading scorer. I think Seattle will ask for JVR instead considering its a little cheaper and 1 year shorter. I personally hope they do that cus I value voracek more than JVR for our team. JVR would be a great add to seattle

 

[flyerslducks]

Wow, some real hot takes in this thread. Looking at some facts first:
Philly's generally accepted protected lists expose, in general order of useability: JVR, Aube Kubel, Ghost, Braun, Hagg, etc
At same time, this protects the following "bubble" players: at forward - Voracek, Patrick, Lindblom at D - Meyers
Almost 100% of Kraken drafts I have seen not trying to account for side deals to fiddle with likely protected lists results in 2 things : Kraken select JVR from the Flyers and JVR ends up being one of, if not the, most reliable top 6 forward selected. JVR is a good choice for Kraken, and he's likely to be exposed by the Flyers, according to all the published models out there. For what it's worth.

So, saying that the Flyers are trying to work out a side deal somehow that allows Flyers to unload Voracek instead of JVR means Flyers are trying to unload 3 x $8.25 instead of 2 x $7, for a practical cap hit difference of $1.25 that the Flyers would get to splurge on in the their free agent search. So how much is $1.25 worth to entice Seattle to do that favor for the Flyers? Well, it ain't anything approaching a first rounder, that's for certain.

IF you think Kraken are instead posturing they'll select someone else cheaper, like Aube Kubel at 1 x $1.075, then (a) if Flyers believe that and (b) they need the cap money desperately to hunt big UFA game....well yeah, it may make more sense. But you think Kraken can pull that decpetion off? It only makes sense if Flyers GM is big game UFA hunting, and he KNOWS his target and what he's worth and what he'll accept AND that the Kraken are actually gonna select Aube Kubel instead of the more expensive options Flyers will dangle. That's a lot of conditions to satisfy before accepting Flyers have to sweeten the pot for the Kraken

We haven't even explored the idea that both Voracek and JVR actually have significant positive upside for the Flyers still, even if you think they're "overpaid". Overpaid is the apt descriptor for 80% of their peers in the NHL on final years of long-term contracts for the best players in the NHL at every position. Nothing exceptional about it, teams going in have to pay going rates for these contracts, and every fanbase complains that the last 2/3/4 years of these normal deals will be a regret. Well, duh.

There is certainly fertile ground for Kraken and Flyers to discuss the situation. Flyers might be trying to move Ghost along too, who knows? But I think it's very doubtful Flyers will actually pay anything more to persuade the Kraken to take a particular player. Too many other factors have to line up perfectly before it makes much sense.

i just cannot see Seattle selecting nak at all. There will be a ton of other better picks for 4th line players that Seattle will take. Personally, I just dont see it at all. Comes down to ghost/hagg/braun or take voracek/jvr. If they are going to take voracek/jvr, might as well make a deal to get even more. If the flyers are insisting on making a deal, then it kinda seems that Seattle was looking at ghost/hagg/braun to me

 

[brewski420]

I don't see how it would be a big problem at all for Seattle if they take on a few years of voracek. They can easily take on the cap, take probably one of the best offensive players available to them, and get another top asset from Philly. You guys will most likely select a lot of low term/$ contracts as well + can always move him later on for another high pick as well.

Also, he was tied in leading the flyers scoring...he wasn't the leading scorer. I think Seattle will ask for JVR instead considering its a little cheaper and 1 year shorter. I personally hope they do that cus I value voracek more than JVR for our team. JVR would be a great add to seattle

With that incentive I can certainly see them take one of Voracek or JVR.

 

[dredeye]

It's already been confirmed he won't extend with Philly at this time.

My guess is he wants to make it to FA and access all his options, go to the cities etc.

he wants to be wined and dined and 69'ed

 

[eramosat]

i just cannot see Seattle selecting nak at all. There will be a ton of other better picks for 4th line players that Seattle will take. Personally, I just dont see it at all. Comes down to ghost/hagg/braun or take voracek/jvr. If they are going to take voracek/jvr, might as well make a deal to get even more. If the flyers are insisting on making a deal, then it kinda seems that Seattle was looking at ghost/hagg/braun to me

not to mention that if Flyers are looking to dump cap as their primary response to Kraken draft, they can simply protect Aube Kubel and instead expose both Voracek and JVR. Leaving Ghost (another good cap dump for Flyers), Hagg or Braun as NHL calibre selections for Kraken. Use that as a Flyer starting point in negotiations, and how much does Fletcher really need to sweeten the pot?

Kraken will look for their best deals with all teams to find most preferable ones to trade their cap space for less than ideal players. They can't make these deals with every team...only 1 or 2. I can't imagine a Flyers sweetener being amongst the very best for the right to "dump" their own "worst" cap hits.

On the other hand. If Fletcher does make such a deal, it can only mean he has a handshake deal with one of his top 3 UFA targets...so we'll see.

 

[Tripod]

not to mention that if Flyers are looking to dump cap as their primary response to Kraken draft, they can simply protect Aube Kubel and instead expose both Voracek and JVR. Leaving Ghost (another good cap dump for Flyers), Hagg or Braun as NHL calibre selections for Kraken. Use that as a Flyer starting point in negotiations, and how much does Fletcher really need to sweeten the pot?

Not true.....all 3 could be exposed as it is. NAK for sure won't be protected.

F: Giroux, Couts, Hayes, Konecny, Lindblom, Laughton, Patrick
D: Provy, Sanheim, Myers

JVR, Voracek, NAK exposed
Ghost, Braun, Hagg exposed

 

[Flyerfan18]

Voracek back to Philly with the Kraken retaining half for another exposed player and a high draft pick after the expansion draft would make a lot of sense for both teams.