Friedman: Flyers working with Seattle to move a High Salary Player (Potentially Voracek)

[Tripod]

Flyers need to pick a direction.

Either go all in or completely tear it down.

They are the definition of mediocre.

2013: Missed postseason
2014: Made postseason
2015: Missed postseason
2016: Made postseason
2017: Missed postseason
2018: Made postseason
2019: Missed postseason
2020: Made postseason
2021: Missed postseason

Zero series wins since being gifted it in 2012 by Fleury.

Blame Hextall for the "rebuild" while trying to be competitive.

They don't need to tear it down as they only have 3 forwards 30 years old or older....and only 1 Dman over age 28. But they do need to make changes....but Fletch will very likely make poor moves. We cling to the 5% chance he won't.

Also, the Flyers beat Montreal in the 1st round in 2020.

 

[Tripod]

Not comparing the players AT ALL. comparing the tradeable situation: A team wanting to get rid of a "bad" contract and is willing to give away a prospect.

And again, only an idiot would trade their middle pairing RHD, WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A TOP PAIRING RHD, just so they can lose their 60+ winger.

And as we saw with the last ED, it proved to be stupid....and that was for a bad Dman in Stoner....not a 60 point player.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Has anyone in the industry come out and said Edmonton did well in that deal? Hell, has even a single poster on these boards said it was a good move for Edmonton?

That is more indicative of the reality of the situation, imo, and probably should not be viewed as an indicator for future transactions this off-season.

So you're saying I/we should believe hype rather than actual, tangible trade evidence, right?

 

[Hockeyholic]

Blame Hextall for the "rebuild" while trying to be competitive.

They don't need to tear it down as they only have 3 forwards 30 years old or older....and only 1 Dman over age 28. But they do need to make changes....but Fletch will very likely make poor moves. We cling to the 5% chance he won't.

Also, the Flyers beat Montreal in the 1st round in 2020.

Yes I forgot Montreal.

 

[Beerfish]

Dear Flyers;

I will be more than happy to take Voracek off your hands, no need for you to retain or take one of our bad contracts. To sweeten the deal I will also give you prospects and picks!

yours truly,

Ken Holland.

 

[Tripod]

Dear Flyers;

I will be more than happy to take Voracek off your hands, no need for you to retain or take one of our bad contracts. To sweeten the deal I will also give you prospects and picks!

yours truly,

Ken Holland.

Well in fairness, Voracek is still good. He is still a 1st line winger. He is overpaid due to Covid, but is still good....unlike Keith who has clearly declined.

But he or JVR(likely JVR) would do well in Edm....just go to the net. JVR could score 35-40 I bet.

 

[Irie]

So you're saying I/we should believe hype rather than actual, tangible trade evidence, right?

No, I am saying that if everyone in the hockey world is saying a GM made a world class blunder, it probably would not be pertinent to view that example as an indicator of what the rest of the league will do.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

No, I am saying that if everyone in the hockey world is saying a GM made a world class blunder, it probably would not be pertinent to view that example as an indicator of what the rest of the league will do.

Except GMs are the ones who make trades - not media personalities and fans.

GMs are what matter. If GMs will take Voracek, JVR, whomever in a similar fashion to Keith - then fans and pundits are flat out wrong about this.

 

[Tripod]

Except GMs are the ones who make trades - not media personalities and fans.

GMs are what matter. If GMs will take Voracek, JVR, whomever in a similar fashion to Keith - then fans and pundits are flat out wrong about this.

it can be argued both ways.

LSchenn was argued for JVR lots before it happened. Flyers fans said no, it wasn't enough. Leafs fans said it was.

Leafs fans were right based on the result of the trade happening
Flyers fans were right based on the results on ice the following years

GM's do dumb things all the time that seem very obvious to fans when they happen.

 

[YP44]

Voracek would look good on Kopitars wing.

 

[brewski420]

With the Keith trade I would expect Voracek to be traded before the ED. If not then Seattle can take him for free. The Kraken could then trade him for a prospect and picks. Should be easy since that is the market. That is the Flyers strategy laid out in the article or am I missing something.

The thing that is weird is that the Flyers will try to trade him after the draft according to the story. Maybe the market will be better then. Even more reason for the Kraken to take him I guess.

 

[ted2019]

Well in fairness, Voracek is still good. He is still a 1st line winger. He is overpaid due to Covid, but is still good....unlike Keith who has clearly declined.

But he or JVR(likely JVR) would do well in Edm....just go to the net. JVR could score 35-40 I bet.

If the Oilers had a defenseman that the Flyers could use, I'd drive JVR to the boarder.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

it can be argued both ways.

LSchenn was argued for JVR lots before it happened. Flyers fans said no, it wasn't enough. Leafs fans said it was.

Leafs fans were right based on the result of the trade happening
Flyers fans were right based on the results on ice the following years

GM's do dumb things all the time that seem very obvious to fans when they happen.

I wouldn't use that trade as a comparison in this instance. That seemed like a very "on the level" kind of trade of 2 underperforming top 5 picks, even if I thought we gave up too much. There was still potential there.

But regardless: GMs do dumb things all the time, yes. All we need is 1 GM to trade assets for Jake, if we really want him gone, even if the other 29/30 GMs won't.

 

[Irie]

Except GMs are the ones who make trades - not media personalities and fans.

GMs are what matter. If GMs will take Voracek, JVR, whomever in a similar fashion to Keith - then fans and pundits are flat out wrong about this.

You're right, the absolute value of a given player is exactly whatever ONE GM is willing to pay for said player. But when that price is generally regarded as an overpayment, then the value may be vastly different if the same GM tried to move that player after acquiring them, which i think would be the case with Duncan Keith.

One bad move by a single GM does not change reality.

GMs sometimes make bad moves and get fleeced, it happens. So although possible, it would be unwise to expect to be on the winning side of every deal, especially when trying to move large contracts in a flat-cap NHL.

 

[Tripod]

With the Keith trade I would expect Voracek to be traded before the ED. If not then Seattle can take him for free. The Kraken could then trade him for a prospect and picks. Should be easy since that is the market. That is the Flyers strategy laid out in the article or am I missing something.

The thing that is weird is that the Flyers will try to trade him after the draft according to the story. Maybe the market will be better then. Even more reason for the Kraken to take him I guess.

This is all coming from Fletcher talking all season how he did not replace Niskanen last year.

The Flyers have the cap space to sign all their RFA's and get a backup goalie. But if they want to add a RHD(which Fletch REALLY does), then it will requre cap space IF it's in the UFA market. In the trade market, depending who it is, a good ol hockey trade could still happen. Like a team like Nashville isn't looking to rebuild so they "could" be a target to see if a hockey deal for Ellis could get done.

But with a deal like Ellis, it has to happen post ED because the Flyers are protecting Provy, Sanheim and Myers.

Lots of wrinkles to deal with for GM's right now.

 

[brewski420]

This is all coming from Fletcher talking all season how he did not replace Niskanen last year.

The Flyers have the cap space to sign all their RFA's and get a backup goalie. But if they want to add a RHD(which Fletch REALLY does), then it will requre cap space IF it's in the UFA market. In the trade market, depending who it is, a good ol hockey trade could still happen. Like a team like Nashville isn't looking to rebuild so they "could" be a target to see if a hockey deal for Ellis could get done.

But with a deal like Ellis, it has to happen post ED because the Flyers are protecting Provy, Sanheim and Myers.

Lots of wrinkles to deal with for GM's right now.

The Flyers have cap space for all RFA's etc with or without Voracek?

 

[SnS]

The Flyers have cap space for all RFA's etc with or without Voracek?

Pretty sure, it’s with or without.

 

[Irie]

In the trade market, depending who it is, a good ol hockey trade could still happen. Like a team like Nashville isn't looking to rebuild so they "could" be a target to see if a hockey deal for Ellis could get done.

I think a trade like this is very realistic and is more than likely how the situation gets resolved and both sides benefit.

We talk about value and say players either have positive or negative value, but it really is no where near that black and white. Voracek has a lot of value, but probably not quite 8.25 million of cap value. So for some black and white scenario posters, they equate that to negative value, when in reality, Voracek probably has 6.25 million of value (given age risk and contract), so his positive value outweighs his negative value, but it is not enough to offset the overall 8.25 mil of total cap space in a tight flat cap environment.

Ellis has similar value issues, and is coming from a position of strength on Nashville. It's a scenario that seems to fit both clubs almost perfectly.

As opposed to Seattle, who would likely get a lot less real value out of Voracek playing him with subpar expansion draft fodder, and thus likely to ask for more to offset their perceived value difference.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Well in fairness, Voracek is still good. He is still a 1st line winger. He is overpaid due to Covid, but is still good....unlike Keith who has clearly declined.

But he or JVR(likely JVR) would do well in Edm....just go to the net. JVR could score 35-40 I bet.

Alzner would also do great in Edmonton.. shut down the other teams top players while McDavid does his magic I bet.

oh wait, he was bought out and JVR is close to being a candidate

 

[Starat327]

Ooof.

 

[Prongo]

Alzner would also do great in Edmonton.. shut down the other teams top players while McDavid does his magic I bet.

oh wait, he was bought out and JVR is close to being a candidate

JVR shouldn’t even be considered close to a buyout candidate.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Alzner would also do great in Edmonton.. shut down the other teams top players while McDavid does his magic I bet.

oh wait, he was bought out and JVR is close to being a candidate

JVR isn't close to being a buyout candidate.

 

[Pelle31]

This is what a lot of Flyers fans don't understand. Cap space is an asset, and certainly 8.25 million for three years in a flat cap era. If they gave up a 2nd for Seattle to take Voracek, you have to look at it from the Flyers perspective of Voracek and a 2nd for whatever defenseman they sign, or Voracek and a 2nd plus the required assets to trade for a defenseman.

Either way, Voracek the 65 point player is good, but a 32 year old with three years left being overpaid at 8.25 million makes the total package a negative asset. Could they trade him in a hockey trade, sure, but it would be for someone else's negative asset and it wouldn't be a legit number 1 D which is what they desperately need.

I have no problem if the Flyers give up a 2nd in order for the Kracken to take Voracek off our hands. Voracek and Giroux should not be on the Flyers next year, it's time for Fletcher to figure out the Flyers core and I don't see either one of these guys as part of that core going forward.

 

[ted2019]

Alzner would also do great in Edmonton.. shut down the other teams top players while McDavid does his magic I bet.

oh wait, he was bought out and JVR is close to being a candidate

JVR isn't getting bought out.

 

[ted2019]

I have no problem if the Flyers give up a 2nd in order for the Kracken to take Voracek off our hands. Voracek and Giroux should not be on the Flyers next year, it's time for Fletcher to figure out the Flyers core and I don't see either one of these guys as part of that core going forward.

Giroux will be here for as long as he wants to be here. He will either want to stay in Philly or go ring chasing.