Flyers town hall meeting (alternate jersey for 2014-15)

[Beef Invictus]

I don't think they did... that 2nd Rangers goal happened in the second period. Looks like Hall, Vinny and Rinaldo had a total of 16:55 in ES TOI.

Sorry, I didn't mean as a unit, I meant any of them in general. Rinaldo included. Rinaldo especially.

 

[ugiswrong]

I would be interested in having Voracek anchor the 2nd line while putting our speediest dudes with our slow shooter. G and Jake can play PP1 together.

Schenn-G-Simmonds
Read-Lecavilier-Voracek
Raffl-Couturier-Akeson
French Guy-Umberger-Rinaldo

 

[Curufinwe]

You'd have to swap Read and Voracek. Voracek can't play LW.

Someone in the crowd suggested that Jake move to left wing but Berube said that Jake is very uncomfortable there and doesn’t play well on the left side.

 

[Striiker]

Nonsense. The players didn't just turn it around on their own. They didn't just 'start scoring' because the calendar changed. They were in disarray until the coach led them. Yes, Giroux's return to health helped, but who did G credit with waking up his line? Raffl.

Nonsense? It's nonsense that players who were producing far less than their normal rate got back to normal by shaking off the rust and the return of their best teammate? In your mind what do you think Berube did? The most likely scenario is that once their best player started going, so did the rest of the team, like they've said on multiple occasions is the case.

I would argue that Berube deserves a huge share of the credit for getting the team playing together and getting them in shape. Homer deserves credit for ditching Talbot for Downie, who sparked a brief scoring binge by Couts and Read that got them a few wins to turn the season around.


Berube also moved Hartnell down, promoting Raffl to 1LW with Giroux and Jake. Raffl's speed and energy definitely helped spark the first line, and he scored a few big goals too.


Hartnell took his demotion well, and the line with Schenn and Simmonds (after Vinny got hurt the first time) scored some big goals too and created a lot of pressure.

Later, when Berube put Raffl at 4C with Rinaldo and Hall, it was an effective line and gave them 4 lines that could put pressure on the other team. When Vinny just plain sucked, he put him at 4C and still got some production.


It's not like all this just happened randomly. It happened because the coaching staff made good, smart decisions. Berube held vets like Hartnell and Vinny accountable by moving them down the roster when they weren't producing.

Yeah, he moved Hartnell down long after Hartnell had started being a detriment to his line, and then as soon as either the 1st or 2nd line started producing again he stuck him back on the 1st and the same problems returned. He did that mutliple times during the season. It was the same thing with Lecavelier, as soon as he started being slightly useful on the 4th line Berube took that as a sign that he should be moved back up to the 2nd... and it never worked because as soon as he got back there all the production from that line slowed down.

Lets also remember how stupid it was to play Mezsaros for so long when the team clearly played better with Gus in there. Schenn looked horrible with Mez and fantastic with Gus... but Gus stayed off the ice.

Berube should also get credit for the lack of controversy in the pipes. He dispelled Lavy's idea there would be a goalie competition by naming Mason as his guy at the press conference when he was hired. Issued closed.

As for goaltending, yes he did a good job of not going back and forth constantly, but he did do some stupid things with that too. It was beyond obvious that Mason was FAR better than Emery this year and he clearly gave us a better chance to win every night, yet there were multiple times when Berube would use Mason against a western team and then use Emery against a divisional opponent to give Mason a rest.. which should have been the opposite since obviously a game against a divisional opponent is more important. Lots of little things like that which made no sense.

I really like most of the things Berube did (and was surprised by how good he was, frankly). He was very successful in making the playoffs with a team that was so far behind early. His calming presence behind the bench was a nice change from Lavy's composure-free frothing at the mouth act, and his respectful but firm approach worked with the refs too.

I'm sure Berube will be even better as a coach this year. The team will be in better shape and know his system better. As long as Schenn, Couts and Raffl improve their offense, RJ's healthy and Bellemare adapts well, the team is stronger than last year, imho.

Hexy gets credit for the stability. He didn't break up the team for the sake of it, just dealt Hartnell as a lesson in complacency.

See bolded

 

[Striiker]

See bolded

Accidently bolded the 2nd to last paragraph which wasn't what I wrote, my bad.

 

[Stizzle]

I would be interested in having Voracek anchor the 2nd line while putting our speediest dudes with our slow shooter. G and Jake can play PP1 together.

Schenn-G-Simmonds
Voracek-Lecavilier-Read
Raffl-Couturier-Akeson
French Guy-Umberger-Rinaldo

If Lecavalier is on the 2nd line to start the season, I'm going to throw up.

 

[FlyTimmo]

If Lecavalier is on the 2nd line to start the season, I'm going to throw up.

Our second line is always a second line in name only. Couturier's line will always be our second line. Couts got similar ice time to Giroux last season, of course though with more PK time and minimal PP time.

 

[BleedOrange]

See Ott resigned in St. Louis so he isn't coming here.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

You'd have to swap Read and Voracek. Voracek can't play LW.

I guess Vinny never told chief he can't play LW or he simply don't give a flying duck.

 

[blinds]

If Lecavalier is on the 2nd line to start the season, I'm going to throw up.

Ehh, he'd be good with Voracek and Read. The problem is when you put him with guys like Schenn and Simmonds and no one on the line can carry the puck well, and they're all poor defensively. Jake and Read could shelter him defensively and drive the play enough to set him up to use his great shot.

That's the kind of role Vinny could actually be good in.

 

[Curufinwe]

I also think Akeson and Raffl could do OK with him if the Flyers didn't want to split up Giroux & Voracek and Couturier & Read. Akeson to set him up for shots, and Raffl to provide some speed and defense.

 

[McNasty]

I would be interested in having Voracek anchor the 2nd line while putting our speediest dudes with our slow shooter. G and Jake can play PP1 together.

Schenn-G-Simmonds
Read-Lecavilier-Voracek
Raffl-Couturier-Akeson
French Guy-Umberger-Rinaldo

I don't want Simmonds anywhere near Giroux at even strength. Giroux needs somebody who is good with the puck, particularly with passing and quick movement, those aren't Simmonds' strengths. In fact Simmonds might be one of the worst passers on the team when you're asking him to complete anything more than an 8 foot pass on the PP.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Schenn-G-Akeson
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Umberger-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Raffl-Hall-XXX Bellemare or whatever his name is, Rinaldo, Rosehill, random AHLer


Agree with the above, Simmonds belongs no where near G or Couturier's lines. Hes a staple 3rd liner who is good on the PP.

 

[Curufinwe]

See Ott resigned in St. Louis so he isn't coming here.

Typical Blues fan response from the trade thread.

Not even a little bit from me. I made a post over at the Asylum a couple days ago about how I wouldn't take Ott back for league minimum.

He made every line he played on worse. He was a huge minus, literally. He provided no offense, no defense, didn't hit, was slower than molasses... I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the advanced stats, like corsi, were off the charts bad too.

Steve Ott is like King Midas if, instead of gold, everything he touched turned into an odd man rush the other way.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

I don't want Simmonds anywhere near Giroux at even strength. Giroux needs somebody who is good with the puck, particularly with passing and quick movement, those aren't Simmonds' strengths. In fact Simmonds might be one of the worst passers on the team when you're asking him to complete anything more than an 8 foot pass on the PP.

Flyers "third" scoring line is the perfect place for him. He's not a very good player in open ice because he lacks creativity/vision and has trouble handling the puck in stride. When playing against lesser competition, he can get away with just using his speed through the neutral zone. Hartnell received a lot of criticism playing with Giroux, but he effective at reading breakouts and distributing the puck.

 

[GoingTopShelf]

Well, anyway, does anyone have any guesses at what "role player" Hexy would like to bring in? I asked before but it kinda got lost in the shuffle/not going back to find it lol.

If they intend to keep Bellemare and Raffl on the wing, I would expect them to bring in a center.

Rollin' with something likes this:

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Raffl - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - NEW GUY - Rinaldo
Rosehill

I agree that Winnik is the best UFA-option (for the wing). But for the money we can spend (about 1,8 mill IIRC), I don't think he will sign for that ammount.

Guys who they might be looking at, assuming they go UFA and not trade could be Handzus, Colin Fraser, Ryan White, Tom Pyatt or, my dark horse, Ryan Carter.

They have their pros and cons, but could provide a stop-gap when Laughton develops in the AHL.

If we are going for a cheap winger for the 4th maybe Galiardi, Moss or Halischuk is worth a shot?

Do not want: Booth, Gomez, James Wright, Penner, Cleary help, Rupp...

 

[Tripod]

If they intend to keep Bellemare and Raffl on the wing, I would expect them to bring in a center.

Rollin' with something likes this:

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Raffl - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - NEW GUY - Rinaldo
Rosehill

I agree that Winnik is the best UFA-option (for the wing). But for the money we can spend (about 1,8 mill IIRC), I don't think he will sign for that ammount.

Guys who they might be looking at, assuming they go UFA and not trade could be Handzus, Colin Fraser, Ryan White, Tom Pyatt or, my dark horse, Ryan Carter.

They have their pros and cons, but could provide a stop-gap when Laughton develops in the AHL.

If we are going for a cheap winger for the 4th maybe Galiardi, Moss or Halischuk is worth a shot?

Do not want: Booth, Gomez, James Wright, Penner, Cleary help, Rupp...

We really need a 4th line C that can win a faceoff. It would take so much pressure of of a Giroux and Couts. But we missed out on Maholtra, Moore and McClemment who were my choices.

 

[Larry44]

If they intend to keep Bellemare and Raffl on the wing, I would expect them to bring in a center.

Rollin' with something likes this:

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Raffl - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - NEW GUY - Rinaldo
Rosehill

I agree that Winnik is the best UFA-option (for the wing). But for the money we can spend (about 1,8 mill IIRC), I don't think he will sign for that ammount.

Guys who they might be looking at, assuming they go UFA and not trade could be Handzus, Colin Fraser, Ryan White, Tom Pyatt or, my dark horse, Ryan Carter.

They have their pros and cons, but could provide a stop-gap when Laughton develops in the AHL.

If we are going for a cheap winger for the 4th maybe Galiardi, Moss or Halischuk is worth a shot?

Do not want: Booth, Gomez, James Wright, Penner, Cleary help, Rupp...

In this scenario, unless they decide to go with Colin Fraser (who counts as a returnee since he was a Flyer D-Pick), I'd rather they resigned Adam Hall, who did everything they asked of him, including being in the lead PK pairing with Couts.

Handzus is interesting too.... Zeus played great for the Hawks, just can't be the #2C they needed him to be.

 

[GoingTopShelf]

In this scenario, unless they decide to go with Colin Fraser (who counts as a returnee since he was a Flyer D-Pick), I'd rather they resigned Adam Hall, who did everything they asked of him, including being in the lead PK pairing with Couts.

Handzus is interesting too.... Zeus played great for the Hawks, just can't be the #2C they needed him to be.

I would be OK with Hall coming back, even though it's unlikely.

For inhouse-option, IIRC talked Hexy bout PMB as a (left) winger when we signed, but he's played center a lot with Skellefteå. IMO he's better suited for that duty than Raffl (and Vinny ofc ).

 

[blinds]

We really need a 4th line C that can win a faceoff. It would take so much pressure of of a Giroux and Couts. But we missed out on Maholtra, Moore and McClemment who were my choices.

I feel like they should just bring Hall back. Best faceoff guy on the team, great PKer, and he's competent enough at ES that he's not a liability like Rinaldo.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Yeah I've said it before too but at this point I'd like Hall back too.

 

[Curufinwe]

If they intend to keep Bellemare and Raffl on the wing, I would expect them to bring in a center.

Rollin' with something likes this:

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Raffl - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - NEW GUY - Rinaldo
Rosehill

This lineup basically ensures Akeson is lost on waivers. So if Laughton is going to start in the AHL, I can see them doing this instead.

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Akeson - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - Raffl - Rinaldo
Rosehill

 

[flyershockey]

This lineup basically ensures Akeson is lost on waivers. So if Laughton is going to start in the AHL, I can see them doing this instead.

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Umberger - Couturier - Read
Akeson - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Bellemare - Raffl - Rinaldo
Rosehill

I could live with this, but I doubt we see it happen. Chief loves Raffl, so I don't see him sticking him one the fourth line. He sees Raffl as a scorer in this league. Plus, that third line might be the worst line defensively in the entire NHL.

 

[Larry44]

See bolded

Not going to go through it all but it seems there are only two major complaints about Berube here, and both are minor, imho.

Hartnell. Your complaint is that Chief moved him and Vinny back up the lineup after they succeeded in improving their play after justified demotions. The point of demoting a guy is to help him get his confidence back. If you are going to demote players forever, you might as well trade them. That's not always possible or wise.

Meszaros over Gus. It might be true that Luke played better with Gus, but for some reason we may never know, the coaches just didn't trust Gus. It might be that he's not playing their systems the way they want, I don't know. Meszaros was also a proven vet trying to get his game back together after injuries, so he'd earned that right. And he did play well on many occasions. Gus has always been irrelevant. He's not an NHL regular, and probably never will be. He's too small to play D against top players and doesn't provide enough O to justify a roster spot as a PMD/PPspecialist.

 

[Striiker]

Not going to go through it all but it seems there are only two major complaints about Berube here, and both are minor, imho.

Hartnell. Your complaint is that Chief moved him and Vinny back up the lineup after they succeeded in improving their play after justified demotions. The point of demoting a guy is to help him get his confidence back. If you are going to demote players forever, you might as well trade them. That's not always possible or wise.

Meszaros over Gus. It might be true that Luke played better with Gus, but for some reason we may never know, the coaches just didn't trust Gus. It might be that he's not playing their systems the way they want, I don't know. Meszaros was also a proven vet trying to get his game back together after injuries, so he'd earned that right. And he did play well on many occasions. Gus has always been irrelevant. He's not an NHL regular, and probably never will be. He's too small to play D against top players and doesn't provide enough O to justify a roster spot as a PMD/PPspecialist.

No, those aren't my only criticisms but those are two large ones. One of the things the coach has the most impact on is the lineup and controlling how players are used. There are lots of examples of him doing that poorly, these are just a few of them.

The point of each game is to win. That's all that matters. The coaches job is to do whatever he can to help the team do that. If something is working then there's no reason to change it and if something isn't working then you have to switch things up to try to improve. It was obvious that Hartnell was hurting the 1st line every time he was there and it was obvious that Lecavelier was completely destroying the 2nd line. When Hartnell went down to the 2nd line with Schenn and Simmonds he looked better and the line was fairly successful. Lecavelier was also pretty successful on the 4th line because he was facing weak competition and he made the 4th line fairly usable. So as soon as they started seeing success in their new spots he put them right back to where they weren't being helpful, which also had a negative effect on their linemates. You can't look at it like they're being promoted or demoted, you just have to find what works.

Then the whole Mez/Gus thing was another headache. I never thought Gus was going to be a great NHLer, or even a consistent one, but he was noticeably better than Meszaros, which is all that matters. The biggest issue we had on defense all year was making smart passes or skating the puck out of the defensive zone. Gus wasn't amazing, but he was far better than Mez at that and he clearly made Schenn better. Meszaros was just a disaster every time he was on the ice, with the exception of the rare offensive flourishes.