Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Christian Folin to one-year contract, $800K

[hatcher]

Everyone would look better with better players surrounding them. That is not a trait specific to role players. He does the "dirty work" because he is incapable of doing anything else. His poor play rests on his shoulders and not the bull**** argument that the forwards don't do their job.

As for Hagg improving, it is a lot easier to improve when you are a very skilled player who still needs to build up strength than a unskilled player who needs to improve at literally everything else.

Forwards don't though at all.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Forwards don't though at all.

Hakstol preaches defense-first and benches plenty of players who fail in that regard (for the most part). The forwards help plenty. Our problems lie more on the shoulders of our defenseman who can't move the puck. Hagg, Manning, MacDonald and Gudas all struggle in that regard. We end up getting hemmed in and bleeding chances when Provorov and Gostisbehere aren't on the ice.

 

[hatcher]

Hakstol preaches defense-first and benches plenty of players who fail in that regard (for the most part). The forwards help plenty. Our problems lie more on the shoulders of our defenseman who can't move the puck. Hagg, Manning, MacDonald and Gudas all struggle in that regard. We end up getting hemmed in and bleeding chances when Provorov and Gostisbehere aren't on the ice.

They all make a first pass. We cant forecheck and back check well and forwards lose all battles and it shows in the playoffs. Regular games are lame for the most part and skilled players will get points but when checked ours all die. D is fine.

 

[FlyTimmo]

They all make a first pass. We cant forecheck and back check well and forwards lose all battles and it shows in the playoffs. Regular games are lame for the most part and skilled players will get points but when checked ours all die. D is fine.

 

[hatcher]

If you played you can see it dude. We are just a bad team with individual scoring. Nothing else until proven other wise.

 

[Lindberg]

I believe Hagg is fine for a bottom pair given that he should be a cost controlled asset for a while. I think that's the biggest reason to keep him is that he can be a physical presence and come at a cheap price. How many bottom pairings are actually good on the ice? I'd rather not trade assets and end up with another Andrew MacDonald. Or pay out a Brandon Manning at 2.25 mil a year for two years. Unfortunately Morin is a totally unknown quantity at this point.

 

[FlyTimmo]

If you played you can see it dude. We are just a bad team with individual scoring. Nothing else until proven other wise.

I played plenty. You seem to like ignoring the large chunk of evidence that more than half of our defense is severely flawed. That notion is more proven than the forwards being flawed.

 

[hatcher]

I played plenty. You seem to like ignoring the large chunk of evidence that more than half of our defense is severely flawed. That notion is more proven than the forwards being flawed.

They can hang. I'm not saying they are the best but they can hang. Just because forwards score doesn't mean they back check.

 

[FlyTimmo]

They can hang. I'm not saying they are the best but they can hang. Just because forwards score doesn't mean they back check.

They really can't. They got abused by good forwards, and that wasn't because our forwards didn't back check lmao

 

[Adtar02]

You need a physical presence, especially in the playoffs, and especially in the D-zone.
Flyers have too many marshmallow defensemen - Ghost, MacDonald, Sanheim.
When Myers is ready, if Gudas gets his mojo back, Hagg will have less value, but right now he's our most physical defenseman.
Or maybe you haven't seen teams park bodies in front of the net on a regular basis?

Ideally, you want six guys like Myers, but realistically, you may have one or two, so you want some big defensively oriented guys to pair with puck movers.
If Hagg doesn't pick it up, eventually he'll be replaced by guys like Ginning or some other big defenseman with better passing skills.

If only we had a big imposing defenseman that moves people away from the crease that can skate better than hagg has more potential and upside. Maybe some one 6 foot 7 ish that out played him in camp last year. Darn. That wouldn’t have help at all be tougher in the back end.

 

[wankstifier]

Someone needs to piece together a montage of Hagg's matador approach in the D zone. It'd help convince the dinos that he's a poor defender

 

[Magua]

Someone needs to piece together a montage of Hagg's matador approach in the D zone. It'd help convince the dinos that he's a poor defender

 

[Rebels57]

It shouldnt even be complicated. If people watched the games they'd see that the Flyers were outplayed with Hagg on the ice and played better when he was on the bench. Why is this hard?

 

[deadhead]

If only we had a big imposing defenseman that moves people away from the crease that can skate better than hagg has more potential and upside. Maybe some one 6 foot 7 ish that out played him in camp last year. Darn. That wouldn’t have help at all be tougher in the back end.

Maybe when that mythological defenseman stays healthy, and shows he can control a puck without staring at his stick instead of keeping his head up and seeing what's happening on the ice.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He had 89 shots though.

You know a player isn't particularly good when a stat like that comes up.

I thoroughly enjoyed him ruining offensive zone time last year with his first & really only instinct to shoot his muffin towards the net.

 

[deadhead]

Hakstol preaches defense-first and benches plenty of players who fail in that regard (for the most part). The forwards help plenty. Our problems lie more on the shoulders of our defenseman who can't move the puck. Hagg, Manning, MacDonald and Gudas all struggle in that regard. We end up getting hemmed in and bleeding chances when Provorov and Gostisbehere aren't on the ice.

Problem is to move the puck you have to have the puck.
To get the puck you have win the battles in the corners wen the puck is dumped in, and along the boards to disrupt the cycle.
Which is one of the reasons Sanheim got benched. Boy is tall but lacks strength, bad combination, high center of gravity but no mass.
If you can't win the physical battles then you need to be quick (in short areas quickness is more important than straight line speed) to the puck and decisive with it.

Lose the battle you don't get to move the puck, win the battle but you can't move the puck then eventually you'll lose it.
Both are bad.

 

[hatcher]

They really can't. They got abused by good forwards, and that wasn't because our forwards didn't back check lmao

Forwards weren't in the picture in the playoffs. Just finished watching the first 4 games.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'm not a stats guy (over 40, dislike the maths, have no desire to learn new tricks). I'm an eye test guy. My eyes bleed whenever Hagg is on the ice. I preferred Manning and greatly prefer MacDonald. I legitimately believe that Hagg was the worst defenseman on the team last season and that it wasn't particularly close. Serious question, when you watch Hagg, what are you seeing that you like? I'm not talking about anything special. I'm talking about, like, what in his play makes you believe he's even a legitimate NHLer? I'm just not seeing it. He has no puck skill, doesn't process the game quickly, and plays a reactive game that's just torture to watch. He's constantly chasing the play because he can't mentally keep up. As someone who values IQ above pretty much everything else, it's just awful watching him.

What are you guys seeing that I'm not seeing that makes you think that Hagg is even a half-decent NHLer?

Again, my point mja isn’t that Hagg is good. It’s funny how offering any defense of him as a 3rd pairing caliber defenseman who hung in there for 18 difficult minutes a game on a weak D as a 22 y/o rookie gets construed as arguing he’s some kind of stalwart.
My point is just that for a young rookie facing tough minutes & spending the majority of his time with AMac, he was up against it & you could do worse for a 3rd pairing caliber dman making under $1M & age 22.
I’ve said a million times I couldn’t care less if they trade him & that he’s just a depth guy, but you’re gonna have some filler on D no matter what.
Yeah, his passing is poor. So is Morin’s. Yeah, I wish he didn’t play so conservatively, but that’s partly a confidence thing that can improve.
I think he’s smart & good in the corners, & that there’s still a place for that for a young cheap depth defenseman.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Forwards weren't in the picture in the playoffs. Just finished watching the first 4 games.

Neither was the defense.

 

[torkad frukt]

Again, my point mja isn’t that Hagg is good. It’s funny how offering any defense of him as a 3rd pairing caliber defenseman who hung in there for 18 difficult minutes a game on a weak D as a 22 y/o rookie gets construed as arguing he’s some kind of stalwart.
My point is just that for a young rookie facing tough minutes & spending the majority of his time with AMac, he was up against it & you could do worse for a 3rd pairing caliber dman making under $1M & age 22.
I’ve said a million times I couldn’t care less if they trade him & that he’s just a depth guy, but you’re gonna have some filler on D no matter what.
Yeah, his passing is poor. So is Morin’s. Yeah, I wish he didn’t play so conservatively, but that’s partly a confidence thing that can improve.
I think he’s smart & good in the corners, & that there’s still a place for that for a young cheap depth defenseman.

Agree.
He should have played lesser minutes for sure, but I felt his "always pass to the d partner to get out of the d zone" started to loose up a bit towards the end of the season, and he tried a tiny bit more to skate the puck out or do an outlet pass. Still could improve big time there, but I think most of that style of play was coaching. I can't remember seing him play that passive before coming over to America.

Starting next season in a bit smaller role with more limited minutes I think he could improve his play.

 

[deadhead]

Got to walk before you can run, having a young defenseman focus on defense first, then once they're comfortable let them gradually expand their game doesn't seem like an unreasonable approach for most players - only the top talents can "cheat" and get away with out, most defensemen can't outskate their mistakes.

 

[FLYguy3911]

No one is arguing Hagg is anything special. But some of his haters look for every reason to justify their disdain while discounting anything the least bit positive for a 22 y/o rookie in hard minutes. Anyway, go back to your haughty approved stats like magic Corsi, that had Weise in the top 5 Flyers a season ago & where 4 of the top 6 teams in the stat missed the playoffs.

My new, go to, stat of Shots per Minute tells me that Hagg ranked 19th out of 22 Flyers skaters last year with such greats as Jori Lehtera, Val Filppula, and Andrew MacDonald. What do all of those guys have in common? Can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh and I'm still waiting on responses:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148180705/

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/147287863/

And while you're at it could you tell me what Weise's GF% and xGF% were 5v5 during the 2016-2017 season? And relative to his teammates? Thanks.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My new, go to, stat of Shots per Minute tells me that Hagg ranked 19th out of 22 Flyers skaters last year with such greats as Jori Lehtera, Val Filppula, and Andrew MacDonald. What do all of those guys have in common? Can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh and I'm still waiting on responses:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148180705/

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/147287863/

And while you're at it could you tell me what Weise's GF% and xGF% were 5v5 during the 2016-2017 season? And relative to his teammates? Thanks.

There’s not much for me to say.
You said yourself there was no point discussing Laughton as a 3C any further, because you don’t see the logic in pointing out he was at a Beagle/Letestu production rate as a 4th liner.
What would hurt the team more, Hagg on the 2nd pair or Laughton at 3C? I look at it similarly. I don’t like either situation. I think Hagg is fine as a 3rd pairing guy, I have no problem with Laughton on line 4. Don’t like either playing above that.
Still strikes me as odd that you contend I should be more irate over the Flyers drafting Ginning over Hallander, considering I had Hallander 14 vs Ginning just out of the first round. I made no bones about I wanted Hallander & think they made a mistake passing him up. But I knew they were going to go D after Farabee & O’Brien, & I like Ginning, so not going to act like it’s the end of the world. You pay close attention to what everyone says, so you know I love Boqvist & like puck moving dmen, & know Ginning had a great benefit when they were paired, but we’re talking 50 overall for Ginning. There’s still a place, especially shorthanded, for a big, strong, smart defenseman, & I think he has all of that. I could be wrong, but I see a guy with potential to be pretty effective & who will work hard to improve. I’m no pro scout, & you like to say those who have seen him more dislike him, but I’m assuming the Flyers’ pro scouts saw him as much as anyone on this board.

 

[FLYguy3911]

There’s not much for me to say.
You said yourself there was no point discussing Laughton as a 3C any further, because you don’t see the logic in pointing out he was at a Beagle/Letestu production rate as a 4th liner.
What would hurt the team more, Hagg on the 2nd pair or Laughton at 3C? I look at it similarly. I don’t like either situation. I think Hagg is fine as a 3rd pairing guy, I have no problem with Laughton on line 4. Don’t like either playing above that.
Still strikes me as odd that you contend I should be more irate over the Flyers drafting Ginning over Hallander, considering I had Hallander 14 vs Ginning just out of the first round. I made no bones about I wanted Hallander & think they made a mistake passing him up. But I knew they were going to go D after Farabee & O’Brien, & I like Ginning, so not going to act like it’s the end of the world. You pay close attention to what everyone says, so you know I love Boqvist & like puck moving dmen, & know Ginning had a great benefit when they were paired, but we’re talking 50 overall for Ginning. There’s still a place, especially shorthanded, for a big, strong, smart defenseman, & I think he has all of that. I could be wrong, but I see a guy with potential to be pretty effective & who will work hard to improve. I’m no pro scout, & you like to say those who have seen him more dislike him, but I’m assuming the Flyers’ pro scouts saw him as much as anyone on this board.

Lol. So we agree that 89 shots in 70 games is not a stat that paints Hagg in a positive light?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Curious to me that many think Morin is an improvement on Hagg. I think they’re both kind of fungible 3rd pairing types. Neither can pass under pressure. Morin stares at the puck when he tries to handle it. Magua thinks Hagg has no hockey sense; I think he has almost too much leading to overt conservatism. If they had them together as a cheap 3rd pair, I think it would be fine. But 3rd pair.