Flyers' overrated young blueliners

[mja]

Provorov will win a Norris one day, or finish top three a few times, he is that good.

I actually don't know that Provorov will ever win a Norris. He's a great player in all 3 zones, and I'm actually higher on his PP ability than some other Flyers fans, but he's going to miss out on offensive opportunities due to being on the same team with Ghost, Sanheim, and possibly Myers as well, and it's going to depress his offensive stats.

 

[joe dirte]

Morgan Rielly is a fantastic hockey player that any team would be lucky to have. He's terrific, smart and physically capable and great with his hands. He gets a lot of crap because he has high point totals and he's a Leaf from people who don't watch him. He's absolutely great.

Ghost gets similar flack for the team he plays for and his output, plus the fact he doesn't have nearly the size that Rielly or really any other NHL defenseman have. But he is the better player. I watch huge gobs of hockey every year, and I like to look at things as unbiasedly as I possibly can, and I will tell you that I don't think there's a similar weapon in the league outside of Karlsson. Gostisbehere is one of the best skaters in the league, possesses incredible creativity and a freakishly hard shot for his size/strength (thanks, probably, to light stick flex).

He can handle any pass within 10 feet of him: over his head he jumps to catch, well wide he'll slide and cut it off like a shortstop. There's probably 20 Flyers goals per year that he gets no assist on, but were only possible due to his blue line keeps, and untold numbers of goals against prevented because he keeps the puck from going the other way with opposing forwards charging. The guy's just a pure athlete in every sense. There's no one better at that in the league. The Flyers' good first PP unit is only possible because when someone down low gets in trouble with the puck, they can just throw it somewhere in his general direction and have an instant reset. Not Klingberg, Rielly, Subban, anyone in the league can tame an errant pass up there the way that kid does. Might seem minor, but in terms of a powerplay or preventing transition offense it's incredibly useful.

He's not as good at defending in-zone as Rielly, but far better against the rush (think stick-work, speed, smart dives). And he provides skills that only maybe a handful of other defensemen in the league can even fathom. Rielly is a really, really good 2-way D-man, but Ghost is a very rare breed in this league. Give him a system that isn't so blase and terrible (think of him playing Laviolette hockey) and he'll rip your eyes out of your face with what he's capable of. Just a machine.

It's OK, it's not a slight to anyone.

Saying ghost is a better defenseman than rielly is most certainly a slight to rielly.

 

[3074326]

Remember when HFBoards tried saying Ghostisbere > Rielly?

LMAO

Remember when not every thread had to be a comparison to the Leafs?

Me neither. Sucks.

 

[Tripod]

Provorov will win a Norris one day, or finish top three a few times, he is that good.

I don't think he will.

With Ghost as a top 5 PP Dman(1st in PP points last year) Provy will never get top usage. And now since Sanheim has joined the #2 unit, it has looked way better than before.

To cut down Provy's minutes, in time he might not get any PP usage once Myers settles in too. But that's ok as the Flyers need him at ES and on the PK. He can be great there.

Oh look....some tweets on the next wave of Flyers D prospects:

 

[Shockmaster]

Threads like this should make us all realize we need to pump the breaks on hyping up young defensemen. Some pan out, some don't. If you think you know that this guy is gonna be a bust or that guy is going to be a future Norris winner or anything in between, you're lying.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Weird thread.. Flyers young dmen are deadly and every team would take them if they could GUARENTEED

 

[Empoleon8771]

This tends to happen often whenever a team has a great pool of D prospects, the same thing happened to the Penguins in like 2012. They were projected to have this amazing defense because they had all of Morrow, Despres, Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin and Harrington in their system in 2012. All of those guys were 1st or 2nd rounders between 2009 and 2012 and all 3 had success in juniors. 6 years later, they got 2 top-4 D out of that group, with Dumoulin ending up the best. Harrington, Morrow and Pouliot ended up being fringe NHLers/bottom pair defensemen on bad teams and Despres was out of the league due to injuries.

I'm guessing the same thing happens with the Flyers group, they'll get like 2 or 3 legit top-4 D (they have 2 already in Provorov and Gostisbehere), then the rest will either not turn into NHLers or will only end up depth guys. You can't complain about that because top-4 defensemen from between 30% and 50% of your prospects is still good. But the reactions about the Flyers having an amazing defense based on all of their guys panning out will end up just as inaccurate as it was with the Penguins.

 

[Fire Benning]

Provorov is great

 

[mja]

Saying ghost is a better defenseman than rielly is most certainly a slight to rielly.

Ghost has finished 17th & 10th in Norris voting in his 3 year career. Rielly hasn't received a single vote during his 5 year career.

 

[Shockmaster]

Weird thread.. Flyers young dmen are deadly and every team would take them if they could GUARENTEED

Do you actually believe that based on what you've seen if them? Or are you just basing that off hype?

 

[StoneHands]

Saying ghost is a better defenseman than rielly is most certainly a slight to rielly.

Have you seen Rielly's 5v5 oiSV%? His goalies have been bailing him out!

 

[Tripod]

This tends to happen often whenever a team has a great pool of D prospects, the same thing happened to the Penguins in like 2012. They were projected to have this amazing defense because they had all of Morrow, Despres, Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin and Harrington in their system in 2012. All of those guys were 1st or 2nd rounders between 2009 and 2012 and all 3 had success in juniors. 6 years later, they got 2 top-4 D out of that group, with Dumoulin ending up the best. Harrington, Morrow and Pouliot ended up being fringe NHLers/bottom pair defensemen on bad teams and Despres was out of the league due to injuries.

I'm guessing the same thing happens with the Flyers group, they'll get like 2 or 3 legit top-4 D (they have 2 already in Provorov and Gostisbehere), then the rest will either not turn into NHLers or will only end up depth guys. You can't complain about that because top-4 defensemen from between 30% and 50% of your prospects is still good. But the reactions about the Flyers having an amazing defense based on all of their guys panning out will end up just as inaccurate as it was with the Penguins.

In fairness, as you said, 2 of the guys are already proven. Sanheim is 100% showing he can be a top 4 Dman if Hak would just play him and Gudas more.

It's always been about safety in numbers. The more you have, the more chance you have of hitting on them. But so far, the Flyers have been fortunate that every guy they took, kept developing. Morin is the only exception but losing 1.5 year to injury will do that. But that's why you keep that depth and the fact that they signed him to a 3 year deal after that injury shows that they have not given up on him.

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Myers

So they only "need" Sanheim and Myers to be middle pairing.

They only "need" every other prospect to be a bottom pairing guy....and Hagg is there already.

But come expansion, they could be losing a Dman in Sanheim or Myers unless they get a deal done with Seattle. So having that pipeline of young D coming is important.

They have 9 Dmen 23 years or younger playing in the NHL, AHL or SHL. As I said before, they just have not all arrived yet....Provy, Ghost(age 25), Sanheim and Hagg all have. There is going to be a logjam in the next few years.

 

[StoneHands]

In fairness, as you said, 2 of the guys are already proven. Sanheim is 100% showing he can be a top 4 Dman if Hak would just play him and Gudas more.

It's always been about safety in numbers. The more you have, the more chance you have of hitting on them. But so far, the Flyers have been fortunate that every guy they took, kept developing. Morin is the only exception but losing 1.5 year to injury will do that. But that's why you keep that depth and the fact that they signed him to a 3 year deal after that injury shows that they have not given up on him.

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Myers

So they only "need" Sanheim and Myers to be middle pairing.

They only "need" every other prospect to be a bottom pairing guy....and Hagg is there already.

But come expansion, they could be losing a Dman in Sanheim or Myers unless they get a deal done with Seattle. So having that pipeline of young D coming is important.

They have 9 Dmen 23 years or younger playing in the NHL, AHL or SHL. As I said before, they just have not all arrived yet....Provy, Ghost(age 25), Sanheim and Hagg all have. There is going to be a logjam in the next few years.

I keep seeing people say "Flyers fans thought they had 6 top pair defenseman in the pipeline lololol" and it's just not true. We said we had 6 guys (most people said 4-5) with top pairing potential. There's a reason why Flyers fans pretty much unanimously agreed that trading any of the 6 would have been a bad idea over the last few years because we needed to wait to see who would pan out and who wouldn't. We all knew not all of them would hit their potential and we all said that we really just need 2 to become top pairing guys, 2 others to be top 4 guys and the last 2 can be 3rd pairing guys. It still looks like that's how it's going to pan out.

 

[Tripod]

I keep seeing people say "Flyers fans thought they had 6 top pair defenseman in the pipeline lololol" and it's just not true. We said we had 6 guys (most people said 4-5) with top pairing potential. There's a reason why Flyers fans pretty much unanimously agreed that trading any of the 6 would have been a bad idea over the last few years because we needed to wait to see who would pan out and who wouldn't. We all knew not all of them would hit their potential and we all said that we really just need 2 to become top pairing guys, 2 others to be top 4 guys and the last 2 can be 3rd pairing guys. It still looks like that's how it's going to pan out.

And I would say it was 5, not 6. Not many were saying Hagg had that upside...but were saying he could be a top 4 guy.

Provy and Ghost both have been top pairing guys.

Sanheim and Myers both still have that upside imo. they can both be thoroughbreds if they are allowed off their leash to create.

Morin was never put into a position to develop the offensive side of his game but with those other 4 listed above, you can sort of see why. But I still believe that Morin will be a big part of the Flyers PK going from bottom of the league, up to being good. He just brings a dimension that none of the other guys bring.

 

[StoneHands]

And I would say it was 5, not 6. Not many were saying Hagg had that upside...but were saying he could be a top 4 guy.

Provy and Ghost both have been top pairing guys.

Sanheim and Myers both still have that upside imo. they can both be thoroughbreds if they are allowed off their leash to create.

Morin was never put into a position to develop the offensive side of his game but with those other 4 listed above, you can sort of see why. But I still believe that Morin will be a big part of the Flyers PK going from bottom of the league, up to being good. He just brings a dimension that none of the other guys bring.

Not if Lappy is in charge and telling the guys to play a ridiculously passive box. I swear he just thinks guys should block shots with their faces so he can relive the glory days.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Do you actually believe that based on what you've seen if them? Or are you just basing that off hype?

No i actually watch and make my comments.. I never speak purely of hype when commenting on how i feel players are

Ive watched Provorov and Sanheim many times back in junior and now. VERY special players.

 

[DDRhockey]

How is lindblom doing?

 

[StoneHands]

How is lindblom doing?

He's had some games where he's really good and some you don't notice him at all. That might also be because some games Hakstol barely plays him for god knows what reason. Jordan Weal is a health scratch to start the season and then gets put into the lineup because of injury and instantly plays more than Lindblom despite playing like dog****.

 

[Tripod]

How is lindblom doing?

Depends who you ask.

Getting 2nd/3rd line minutes until last game. Good advanced stats 54.2 CF, awful luck 89.2 PDO.

But Hak doesn't see those things so he could be scratched next game.

Regardless, Giroux and JVR at LW for the top 6 leaves Lindblom and Laughton for the bottom 6....and Laughton has played very well(4+1=5 pts all at ES)

Crazy how 1.5 years ago, the thinking was after the Schenn trade, that Lindblom would get the chance to play on the LW beside Giroux and Voracek as well as in the slot on the PP.

Instead, they moved Giroux to LW, Laughton to LW, added JVR, and put Couturier on the top PP. So certainly Lindblom's opportunities have diminished but most nights he is still good/fine, but the line just has not converted the chances they have created.

 

[Goldenhands]

sooooo overrated!!

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Haha what is this? Just bash our team and prospects great premise for a thread.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It’s always hilarious to see Flyers fans blame all their defensive failings on Andrew MacDonald. Flyers suck defensively? 100% Andrew MacDonald’s fault. The kids are perfect and never contribute to it. The Flyers let in 6 goals today against the (checks notes) New York Islanders, including goals to (checks notes) Adam Pelech and Leo Komorov, and (checks notes) Andrew MacDonald didn’t even play! How do we explain that?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Provorov will be on the top PP once the idiot coach is fired...

I actually don't know that Provorov will ever win a Norris. He's a great player in all 3 zones, and I'm actually higher on his PP ability than some other Flyers fans, but he's going to miss out on offensive opportunities due to being on the same team with Ghost, Sanheim, and possibly Myers as well, and it's going to depress his offensive stats.

 

[Goldenhands]

Provorov will win a Norris one day, or finish top three a few times, he is that good.

not even close...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Gohstisbehere has been straight ass this season. Seams he as 1 great season and one shit season and alternates