Flyers lack toughness

[DancingPanther]

 

[captainpaxil]

The only thing that really stands out about this team is it has middling speed. Not slow but not fast either. It's the kind of team where you need a second and probably third thing to develop a real identity.
We have some guys who are good players and some guys who are tough to play against the problem is the combination of guys who weren't scoring And weren't hitting. I put a lot of that on coaching (Myers) but some of it is ability (Braun)

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

1

All I have to say is...where the hell is Rice Miller?

 

[tucson83]

How do you get experienced players? By playing.
Trotz didn't win the Cup until his fourth season in Washington, and that was with a more experienced squad.
Q won early in Chicago, but he had the high picks who were "early arrivals."
TB took time to build, had to take a step back before winning a Cup.

First you walk, then you run.
Make the playoffs a couple times, advance into the 2nd rd and then the CF.
Then if you need that one or two players, you go get them.

giroux doesnt have 5 years to wait for young players to blossom, by that time he will retire without a cup or maybe go someplace and win one. what's your issue with vets? do you to want to win a cup or you care more about prospects that are overrating and obsessing over?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

All I have to say is...where the hell is Rice Miller?

I’m pleasantly surprised anyone could name him. You missed quite a thread that had to be immortalized for now.

 

[wankstifier]

We want a fruit leather, but we’re stuck with a Gusher

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I’m pleasantly surprised anyone could name him. You missed quite a thread that had to be immortalized for now.

One of the alltime greats. Anyone who doesn't like him has their head up their ass when it comes to music. About as cool as you can get too! Point me to this thread...

 

[deadhead]

giroux doesnt have 5 years to wait for young players to blossom, by that time he will retire without a cup or maybe go someplace and win one. what's your issue with vets? do you to want to win a cup or you care more about prospects that are overrating and obsessing over?

If it takes five years, it ain't happenin'

It's more like one step back, two steps forward, but until they take those two steps, it's not time for the moves to put them over the top - first you have to get close enough, then you make the big push.

When you look at top teams, it's usually an accumulation of smaller moves that make them a top contender, not a big "splash" move.
One reason TB could trade a lot of assets was they consistently found players like Guorde, Palat, which meant they had enough depth to move out a few 1st rd picks and top prospects.
But most teams have to patiently build up "critical mass" in talent through high draft picks.

The reason is simple, how many lopsided trades occur each season? One? Two? What are the odds of being on the right side of one of those. And most lopsided trades are won by the team that got the prospects, not the team that got the "name" veteran (see the Richards trade).

Most trades are value for value, or disappointment for disappointment, with matching contracts. Even when you hit on someone like Verhaeghe out of the blue, in a year or two you have to give a big money extension or watch him leave.

Which is why the key to sustained competitiveness are all those frustrating prospects on ELCs and first RFA contracts, in a flat cap era, you have to balance big money deals with low cost assets - if you trade a lot of low cost assets for Eichel's $10M contract, you might end up with a worse team as your depth becomes scrubs and your roster is top heavy (see Toronto).

 

[Beef Invictus]

We want a fruit leather, but we’re stuck with a Gusher

We can make gushers out of fruit leather. We have the technology.

 

[tucson83]

If it takes five years, it ain't happenin'

It's more like one step back, two steps forward, but until they take those two steps, it's not time for the moves to put them over the top - first you have to get close enough, then you make the big push.

When you look at top teams, it's usually an accumulation of smaller moves that make them a top contender, not a big "splash" move.
One reason TB could trade a lot of assets was they consistently found players like Guorde, Palat, which meant they had enough depth to move out a few 1st rd picks and top prospects.
But most teams have to patiently build up "critical mass" in talent through high draft picks.

The reason is simple, how many lopsided trades occur each season? One? Two? What are the odds of being on the right side of one of those. And most lopsided trades are won by the team that got the prospects, not the team that got the "name" veteran (see the Richards trade).

Most trades are value for value, or disappointment for disappointment, with matching contracts. Even when you hit on someone like Verhaeghe out of the blue, in a year or two you have to give a big money extension or watch him leave.

Which is why the key to sustained competitiveness are all those frustrating prospects on ELCs and first RFA contracts, in a flat cap era, you have to balance big money deals with low cost assets - if you trade a lot of low cost assets for Eichel's $10M contract, you might end up with a worse team as your depth becomes scrubs and your roster is top heavy (see Toronto).

im not suggesting getting any big top names, im suggesting clearing out cap and focus on low risk moves on d and forwards, that's why we were struggling last year, our depth was lacking and i said this, we werent going to make the playoffs and av was going to have his hands full because this is not a league to have an all rookie lineup. if you think getting rid of a every coach is going to fix everything then you like hextall just dont know how to build a team, you are too close minded and stubborn about what every team does instead you have too much of an ego you want to do things your way. that's why it's going to fail.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

One of the alltime greats. Anyone who doesn't like him has their head up their ass when it comes to music. About as cool as you can get too! Point me to this thread...

Either I don’t remember what it was called or I have the starter on Ignore and can’t see it anymore. @Striiker might be able to help.

*Edit* I found it by searching for “adenoids”. Don’t ask. Flyers will not be successful til core leadership is changed.

 

[deadhead]

But we're not an all rookie team, those rookies are now in their 3rd-5th seasons (TK, Farabee, Lindblom, Patrick, Frost, NAK, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers), as this group enters the 24-26 year old range, they'll become the core of the team.

Guys like York, Zamula, Allison, Laczynski, will be worked in this season, followed in a year or two by JOB, Brink, Foerster, Wisdom, Ratcliffe, Millman, Andrae, Attard, St Ivany, If you can add 2-3 rookies a season and gradually work them up from 4th line/3rd pair into bigger minutes, you can then make those final moves to contend.

The lack of depth last year was primarily due to bad luck, Frost, Lindblom and Patrick healthy and there's no depth problem.
They moved out Raffl (over 30) and will move in Frost, Lindblom post-cancer, Allison, Laczynski. Patrick remains to be seen.

 

[Striiker]

Either I don’t remember what it was called or I have the starter on Ignore and can’t see it anymore. @Striiker might be able to help.

*Edit* I found it by searching for “adenoids”. Don’t ask. Flyers will not be successful til core leadership is changed.

Awww… I didn’t even get a chance.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Either I don’t remember what it was called or I have the starter on Ignore and can’t see it anymore. @Striiker might be able to help.

*Edit* I found it by searching for “adenoids”. Don’t ask. Flyers will not be successful til core leadership is changed.

I waded through FIVE pages to find the answer. Gotta admit I laughed...several times.

Now switch back to Sonny Boy....NOW!

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Flopadelphia flyers. Why compete when you can flop and hope for a power play to not score on?

 

[dragonoffrost]

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS! = toughness....

Wait hits are so subjective when they are counted.


BUT HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS

 

[deadhead]

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS! = toughness....

Wait hits are so subjective when they are counted.


BUT HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS

Hits are a crude proxy, but when players in say the top six of a team, vary by a factor of 3, it tells you something.

Hits for forwards tend to be correlated with forechecking, a lot of a good forecheck is hitting defensemen along the boards, both to force them to cough up the puck, but also to get them nervous and encourage them to rush their clears, resulting in more turnovers. We've seen that work against us numerous times.

 

[Lindberg]

Hits are a crude proxy, but when players in say the top six of a team, vary by a factor of 3, it tells you something.

Hits for forwards tend to be correlated with forechecking, a lot of a good forecheck is hitting defensemen along the boards, both to force them to cough up the puck, but also to get them nervous and encourage them to rush their clears, resulting in more turnovers. We've seen that work against us numerous times.

Huh...

What NHL Team Has Most Hits Per Game 2021 | StatMuse

Interestingly enough VGK had less hits than the Flyers.

Could be that hits are a completely meaningless stat.

 

[Tripod]

Huh...

What NHL Team Has Most Hits Per Game 2021 | StatMuse

Interestingly enough VGK had less hits than the Flyers.

Could be that hits are a completely meaningless stat.

It's a meaningless stat....but it doesn't mean hits are meaningless.

Example, we have seen Hagg rack up meaningless hits after the guy he is chasing passes the puck. Meanwhile a hit that seperates a man from the puck so his teammate can retrieve the puck certainly has meaning.

The NYI are hard to play against most nights. They play a tough way...even though they have guys like Eberle and Barzal on their team. They have team toughness.

And what is also important for them, is that they have all those hits(3rd in the league), but they took the least amount of penalties in the league too. So they are not "punishing" their PK and team by hitting so much.

We are easy to play against. We have no identity. Or mascot is more popular than we are.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Bit of a tangent but for me a larger issue for various reasons is lack of team speed.

 

[DancingPanther]

Either I don’t remember what it was called or I have the starter on Ignore and can’t see it anymore. @Striiker might be able to help.

*Edit* I found it by searching for “adenoids”. Don’t ask. Flyers will not be successful til core leadership is changed.

It always comes back to adenoids jojo

 

[deadhead]

Bit of a tangent but for me a larger issue for various is lack of team speed.

I don't think it's a lack of team speed, more a lack of team speedsters, TK might be the only fast forward but lacks "shake and bake", then NAK and Laughton and Farabee, the rest are pretty average at forward, but no one who sticks out as slow. Same on defense, Sanheim has good but not great speed, Myers is the fastest, but not with a puck on his stick, Ghost and Provorov are above average but nothing special, only Hagg and Braun would be considered slow, and neither is Grossman/Schenn slow.

Frost will add speed, while Zamula has Sanheim long strides, he's not the explosive speedster who challenges defenses.

But who on Vegas is fast?

 

[Striiker]

What the Flyers really lack is smart fans

 

[Magua]

I'd love to add an elite transporter of the puck -- and that means more than straight line speed -- but playing fast is always more than skating fast. I think the Flyers have plenty of guys who play fast. On paper, team speed isn't a major issue, even if I'm not saying it's great. But especially long-term on the backend you have Sanheim, Provorov, Myers (without the puck at least), York, Jones, etc. All those guys are plus skaters, most of them with the puck.

The Flyers play a system where "playing fast" involves abandoning zone support up-ice and flinging pucks north ASAP and chasing. That's not playing fast.

 

[Starat327]

I'd love to have a speedster with the puck -- and that means more than straight line -- but playing fast is always more than skating fast. I think the Flyers have plenty of guys who play fast, along with some good transition players. On paper, team speed isn't a big issue. Especially long-term on the backend with Sanheim, Provorov, Myers (without the puck at least), York, etc. All those guys are plus skaters, most of them with the puck.

The Flyers play a system where "playing fast" involves abandoning zone support up-ice and flinging pucks north ASAP and chasing. That's not playing fast.

Willingly turning over possession quickly is still playing fast, Magua.