Flyers lack toughness

[StarterHart]

View attachment 446366

 

[Kelmitchell2]

I can't believe this thread has 7 pages....

 

[deadhead]

@deadhead What if I said a better complaint than size or physicality would be puck retrieval Forwards? If they’re going to dump the puck as much as Carolina and Minnesota do, that’s a non-negotiable roster strength.

I agree, that's a big part of physicality, fast and physical to the puck on the dump in, making defensemen look over the shoulder and forcing them to turn over the puck and then start the cycle. And keeping the cycle going requires winning board battles at times.

Some of that is smarts as well, knowing which goalies play the puck, being able to dump in at an angle to make the defensemen move to the puck buying time for the forechecker to contest possession.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

flyers lack tainter

 

[FLYguy3911]

flyers lack tainter

Phillies do too.

 

[Striiker]

Phillies do too.

I don’t watch the Phillies but I assume their problem is toughness too?

 

[04hockey]

WHEN .....do all the excuses S-T-O-P ?

 

[Embiid]

They lack toughness but they have Gritty...

 

[Magua]

flyers lack tainter

Bobo Berger is the toughest man I know. If the Flyers had the heart of Bobo, they’d probably die from a genetic abnormality, but before they died.....

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Bobo Berger is the toughest man I know. If the Flyers had the heart of Bobo, they’d probably die from a genetic abnormality, but before they died.....

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

And Trotz is able to get one out of his people, hence why I said "people would be okay with it". I never claimed we had an identity and the problem is something else so I'm not sure where we're going here

I know. I totally blew it trying to get my point across. Call it old age.
I agree people would be ok with it. Back to back conference final trips. Their style may not be popular but you cannot argue with results.
Not everyone can play as fast as Tampa and Vegas do. They have the horses to play that way, I don’t think the Flyers do. But they need to figure out what kind of team they want to be. Saying the obvious here but they need to find that post Covid style again.

 

[Starat327]

View attachment 446371

This made me just laugh my ass off. I can't mentally picture a person with such agressivr hairstyling ever looking so much like a deer in headlights.

Look at me! DONT LOOK AT ME

 

[deadhead]

I think AV knows what kind of team he wants, not the Islanders, probably closer to Vegas and Carolina.
He doesn't have the Norris D-man or the top center (as good as Couts is, he's not a MacKinnon et al) or Panarin type scorer.
Similar to his Ranger teams but with more talent on defense and more depth.

So he wants to roll four lines, short shifts with players going full speed and then off the ice instead of pacing themselves (lines that play 20+ minutes have to pace themselves to get through a game). Players have to skate hard on the forecheck and on the backcheck.

I think a combination of injuries (Couts to start the season, Frost lost, Hayes hernia, Patrick and Bunnaman struggling) screwed that up last season, then COVID made things worse (Laughton loses ten lbs and so on).

This season, before the ED, he'll have 14 NHL caliber forwards for 12 slots:
G, Couts, TK, Farabee, Hayes, Allison, JVR, Frost, Voracek, Lindblom, Laughton, Laczysnki, Patrick, NAK.
The key is settling on four lines, then playing them consistently so they can develop chemistry.

 

[Magua]

When I watch Vigneault’s system at work, I definitely see Carolina and Vegas.

 

[tucson83]

I think AV knows what kind of team he wants, not the Islanders, probably closer to Vegas and Carolina.
He doesn't have the Norris D-man or the top center (as good as Couts is, he's not a MacKinnon et al) or Panarin type scorer.
Similar to his Ranger teams but with more talent on defense and more depth.

So he wants to roll four lines, short shifts with players going full speed and then off the ice instead of pacing themselves (lines that play 20+ minutes have to pace themselves to get through a game). Players have to skate hard on the forecheck and on the backcheck.

I think a combination of injuries (Couts to start the season, Frost lost, Hayes hernia, Patrick and Bunnaman struggling) screwed that up last season, then COVID made things worse (Laughton loses ten lbs and so on).

This season, before the ED, he'll have 14 NHL caliber forwards for 12 slots:
G, Couts, TK, Farabee, Hayes, Allison, JVR, Frost, Voracek, Lindblom, Laughton, Laczysnki, Patrick, NAK.
The key is settling on four lines, then playing them consistently so they can develop chemistry.

if you really think we are going win a cup with these guys anytime soon, you are seriously out of touch. i called the flyers not making playoffs when fletch didnt make any moves last offseason because when you are relying on more youth unless you have a cant miss star in ahl, it's a serious downgrade and more likely not make the playoffs.

look at the final four teams and compare it to our roster, what do they have that we dont? more experienced players, we have 11 players consist of rookies and second year players, how many of those players are on the final four teams? less than 5.

you dont win cups with more inexperience players, it's impossible. this is not college, this is the playoffs we are playing against experienced teams, the odds are against you when it comes to experience, it freaking matters.

 

[Striiker]

When I watch Vigneault’s system at work, I definitely see Carolina and Vegas.

That's just because he doesn't have the right roster.

Softhero and Ghoner wouldn't even be in Vegas' lineup, let alone the top 4.

 

[deadhead]

you dont win cups with more inexperience players, it's impossible. this is not college, this is the playoffs we are playing against experienced teams, the odds are against you when it comes to experience, it freaking matters.

How do you get experienced players? By playing.
Trotz didn't win the Cup until his fourth season in Washington, and that was with a more experienced squad.
Q won early in Chicago, but he had the high picks who were "early arrivals."
TB took time to build, had to take a step back before winning a Cup.

First you walk, then you run.
Make the playoffs a couple times, advance into the 2nd rd and then the CF.
Then if you need that one or two players, you go get them.

 

[Embiid]

I think AV knows what kind of team he wants, not the Islanders, probably closer to Vegas and Carolina.
He doesn't have the Norris D-man or the top center (as good as Couts is, he's not a MacKinnon et al) or Panarin type scorer.
Similar to his Ranger teams but with more talent on defense and more depth.

So he wants to roll four lines, short shifts with players going full speed and then off the ice instead of pacing themselves (lines that play 20+ minutes have to pace themselves to get through a game). Players have to skate hard on the forecheck and on the backcheck.

I think a combination of injuries (Couts to start the season, Frost lost, Hayes hernia, Patrick and Bunnaman struggling) screwed that up last season, then COVID made things worse (Laughton loses ten lbs and so on).

This season, before the ED, he'll have 14 NHL caliber forwards for 12 slots:
G, Couts, TK, Farabee, Hayes, Allison, JVR, Frost, Voracek, Lindblom, Laughton, Laczysnki, Patrick, NAK.
The key is settling on four lines, then playing them consistently so they can develop chemistry.

Just face it...he sucks...

 

[Thrasymachus]

nEeD sUgAr

In WaTer

I just lurk these boards but I HAD to comment this is too good xD

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think AV knows what kind of team he wants, not the Islanders, probably closer to Vegas and Carolina.
He doesn't have the Norris D-man or the top center (as good as Couts is, he's not a MacKinnon et al) or Panarin type scorer.
Similar to his Ranger teams but with more talent on defense and more depth.

So he wants to roll four lines, short shifts with players going full speed and then off the ice instead of pacing themselves (lines that play 20+ minutes have to pace themselves to get through a game). Players have to skate hard on the forecheck and on the backcheck.

I think a combination of injuries (Couts to start the season, Frost lost, Hayes hernia, Patrick and Bunnaman struggling) screwed that up last season, then COVID made things worse (Laughton loses ten lbs and so on).

This season, before the ED, he'll have 14 NHL caliber forwards for 12 slots:
G, Couts, TK, Farabee, Hayes, Allison, JVR, Frost, Voracek, Lindblom, Laughton, Laczysnki, Patrick, NAK.
The key is settling on four lines, then playing them consistently so they can develop chemistry.

Vigneault has always been known as a rather up-tempo coach. Not run-and-gun, but pretty high pressure, outnumber the opponent on the puck in the d-zone, get to high-danger areas in the o-zone, backcheck hard. Both he & Fletcher want 200-ft. games, and that takes a lot of commitment, conditioning, & willingness to do the dirty work. Those elements have been missing ever since the Covid pause. It seems many players, particularly young players, fell back into bad, lazy habits.

As Fletcher acknowledged, they don’t have the right mix of players. They need another defenseman who can log big minutes, play with Provorov, & won’t shy from physical contact. Preferably RH.

They need to add better motors to their forward group. Guys who can win puck races & puck battles & who don’t stay on the perimeter (Allison was noticeable for at least not staying on the perimeter & not avoiding contact.)

They also could use a forward who can back off the D & gain the zone with speed.

It’ll be interesting to see what they end up doing.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

When I watch Vigneault’s system at work, I definitely see Carolina and Vegas.

Zing....

 

[prototypical4thliner]

View attachment 446371

When I shave my beard, I wanted to do a monkey tail first for the memes. But you’ve inspired me to a new holy grail.

 

[flyers0909]

Agree or disagree on the style AV runs and if it's going to work or not, but to me his biggest flaw is the trust in the assistant coaches. I don't know how anyone can take a look at our special teams last year and blame it on the players. Just downright terrible personnel and tactical decisions by dumb and dumber. AV's reluctance to change anything there is my biggest issue with him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Agree or disagree on the style AV runs and if it's going to work or not, but to me his biggest flaw is the trust in the assistant coaches. I don't know how anyone can take a look at our special teams last year and blame it on the players. Just downright terrible personnel and tactical decisions by dumb and dumber. AV's reluctance to change anything there is my biggest issue with him.

Tough to have a good PK when your goalies, particularly Hart, are dreadful & you have too many defensemen who are poor defending around their net. Hard to scheme your way around those problems.

 

[DancingPanther]

flyers lack tainter

Amen to that brother.