Value of: Flyers draft day trades

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

You're comparing Bode Wilde to Ginning? Are you following Canadian Junior at all? Wilde would be a Norris candidate if the CHL had one.

70 points in 62 games for Saginaw. 7 goals in 12 playoff games. Adam Ginning? Of the 1 goal and 4 assist year in Sweden? Come on!

He was talked about being a top 10 pick for a good amount of 2017-18 and based on his production and dominance of a game he SHOULD HAVE BEEN a top 10 pick. And would have CERTAINLY been one if he was draft eligible this year (he just turned 19 in January)

The OP stated they were looking for a Top pair/Top 4 RHD. Farabee could well end up a 1st line/2nd line winger and Wilde could well be a Top pair/2nd pair RD. To ignore the production because of WHERE he was drafted is pretty silly. I could imagine this conversation happening a few years ago . . .

Brayden Point for OUR 1st round draft pick player? Are you kidding? He was a 3rd round pick!

2nd round pick Shea Weber for Zach Parise? Are you kidding? It's about PRODUCTION, not draft slot.

Adam Ginning, as an 18 year old, played in a men's league in Sweden and played very well. Ginning is also a defensive defenseman, so he won't simply have the same numbers that Wilde will put up.

As for what I posted with regards to Dobson, you'd be getting one of the Flyers top defensive prospects and a forward who needs a change of scenery, very similar to what was offered for Farabee.

Seeing as to how you turned down the deal, you see why the Flyers would turn down a similar deal.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Ghost makes 4.5 and in his worst season scored 37 pts in limited minutes. He's being drastically underrated here. There'd be debate on moving him even up let alone adding especially a high first

I don't think I'd do it 1 for 1.

Ghost is crazy valuable even in a down year.

 

[wej20]

hence the significant add of Strome, who sucked prior to coming to Rangers, and whether that is maturity kicking in or chemistry, this former 5OA talent looked fully the part of 2C material.

Strome isn't a significant add. He's consistently put up 3rd line numbers apart from 1 year for the Islanders. If he has a solid season for the Rangers then he might have some value but right now he's not worth much at all.

 

[blinkman360]

I'm not a fan of either team but how about:

to CGY: Gostisbehere, LHD; Patrick, C; '19 1st round pick
to PHI: Gaudreau, LW

Maybe Calgary sends something back to even it up...not sure. Maybe it's terrible. It's probably terrible.

 

[leeroggy]

Adam Ginning, as an 18 year old, played in a men's league in Sweden and played very well. Ginning is also a defensive defenseman, so he won't simply have the same numbers that Wilde will put up.

As for what I posted with regards to Dobson, you'd be getting one of the Flyers top defensive prospects and a forward who needs a change of scenery, very similar to what was offered for Farabee.

Seeing as to how you turned down the deal, you see why the Flyers would turn down a similar deal.

I don't see it as a similar deal. I'm responding to what the OP was looking for, you did not.

 

[TheKingPin]

I'm not a fan of either team but how about:

to CGY: Gostisbehere, LHD; Patrick, C; '19 1st round pick
to PHI: Gaudreau, LW

Maybe Calgary sends something back to even it up...not sure. Maybe it's terrible. It's probably terrible.

Not saying anything about value, but I’m not sure the flyers should do this. Those are 3 high end players that won’t make much more than JG in the near future combined. Plus consider the flyers would then be looking for 2 top 4 dmen and a 2C as well as a 3C.

Brings me to the point that Trouba has value, but not nearly as much as if he is re signed. And I think that 11OA pick has a ton of value. I would think the pick plus something like a tier 2 prospect would be enough for him.

 

[CapnZin]

No. Farabee is a key cornerstone prospect going forward. Let's put it this way - would you trade Noah Dobson for Nicholas Aube-Kubel and Adam Ginning? That's what this trade would amount to.

Ginning is just Robert Hägg with slightly better skating... I don’t see a comparison to Wilde, however, CHL QoC compared to SHL at the age of 18 is like playing against kids, but still.

 

[CapnZin]

True. I just meant that Ghost would be a good starting point. Then it would depend on what picks or prospects Philly is willing to add.

Ghost - Trouba is a fair base. However contract valuations play heavily into the intrinsic value of the player.

RFA status and seeing that Trouba may not go back reduces value greatly. If Trouba is asking for 8-9million that also reduces value greatly.

Ghost is the superior Odman. While WPG benefitted greatly from Troubas breakout year offensively, is the Defensive gap between the two (adding in a potential 2X cap hit) worth a top prospect?

Most would answer no. We could bridge that gap by trading other “non top” picks or prospects to cover that gap. Even with Ghost undergoing some procedures to fix whatever happened to his knee at the beginning of the year, his cap hit and production makes him a valued asset.

One thing people don’t necessarily understand about Ghost is that he isn’t that bad defensively. People attribute his defensive limitations to his development rather than systematic play. We saw this in regards to this year and last year. 9 different D patters playing on the bottom pair and not the 1PP QB (since he was injured all year) would grossly misattribute his play style.

Trouba is the more complete Dman, therefore, better, but we would take the superior offensive Dman at a great cap hit and extend offers to someone who can ha for the defensive gap between the two... at that point we will close the gap.

Since he’s going RFA (most likely), we won’t extend assets, rather picks during the RFA route. No team would ever pay what you want for rights.

 

[Snowman]

Ghost - Trouba is a fair base. However contract valuations play heavily into the intrinsic value of the player.

RFA status and seeing that Trouba may not go back reduces value greatly. If Trouba is asking for 8-9million that also reduces value greatly.

Ghost is the superior Odman. While WPG benefitted greatly from Troubas breakout year offensively, is the Defensive gap between the two (adding in a potential 2X cap hit) worth a top prospect?

Most would answer no. We could bridge that gap by trading other “non top” picks or prospects to cover that gap. Even with Ghost undergoing some procedures to fix whatever happened to his knee at the beginning of the year, his cap hit and production makes him a valued asset.

One thing people don’t necessarily understand about Ghost is that he isn’t that bad defensively. People attribute his defensive limitations to his development rather than systematic play. We saw this in regards to this year and last year. 9 different D patters playing on the bottom pair and not the 1PP QB (since he was injured all year) would grossly misattribute his play style.

Trouba is the more complete Dman, therefore, better, but we would take the superior offensive Dman at a great cap hit and extend offers to someone who can ha for the defensive gap between the two... at that point we will close the gap.

Since he’s going RFA (most likely), we won’t extend assets, rather picks during the RFA route. No team would ever pay what you want for rights.

As already has been said many, many times. Trouba will be traded to a team where he is willing to extend. You won't be getting any discount thinking you are only getting a 1 year RFA.

 

[CapnZin]

As already has been said many, many times. Trouba will be traded to a team where he is willing to extend. You won't be getting any discount thinking you are only getting a 1 year RFA.

He is a RFA... maybe I read what you said incorrectly... however, yes, the only place he will be traded to is a place in which he is willing to resign. That takes away the ‘run away’ factor from a trade, however, if it’s a rights trade... don’t expect what you think he will get. The team pursing him will likely push for a rights trade. At that same time WPG could just hold on to him for picks, but who knows.

 

[1865]

I think the 11OA + ghost would be a better starting point for Trouba.

Sorry, Trouba isn’t worth that. Trading Ghost at a low price is a silly idea.

 

[1865]

As already has been said many, many times. Trouba will be traded to a team where he is willing to extend. You won't be getting any discount thinking you are only getting a 1 year RFA.

The Flyers have an insane amount of cap space in the summer.

 

[captainpaxil]

No, there would be no debate. Trouba is undeniably a far better defenseman than Ghost. There is no argument to be made to the contrary. Philly would need to add due to Trouba being a significant upgrade on Ghost.

Trouba career high given top minutes 50p50pts +8 ghost career high given top minutes 65 pts +10 given similar age and one is going to have nearly twice the cap of the other and has the rarer skillset. Yes theres debate even up. I'm in the flat no camp and many other flyer fans would be. Adding the 11 is laughable and especially ludicrous with troubas pending free agency.

 

[Snowman]

The Flyers have an insane amount of cap space in the summer.

That's good. Philly is one of the places where I think Trouba would be willing to go and sign long term. It would give the Flyers a rare, top pairing RHD signed for a long time.

 

[Snowman]

Trouba career high given top minutes 50p50pts +8 ghost career high given top minutes 65 pts +10 given similar age and one is going to have nearly twice the cap of the other and has the rarer skillset. Yes theres debate even up. I'm in the flat no camp and many other flyer fans would be. Adding the 11 is laughable and especially ludicrous with troubas pending free agency.

Yeah, no debate. Trouba is absolutely worth much more than a defenseman that was healthy scratched this year over his inability to actually play defense.

 

[Soundgarden]

Any interest in Turris, Ellis or/and Subban?

 

[Starat327]

I think the 11OA + ghost would be a better starting point for Trouba.

Is trouba coming with an 8 year extension at Ghosts AAV? Cause if not, the Flyers are getting absolutely robbed here.

One more thread where an offensive D is getting undersold because of made up defensive limitations.

I'm not adding anything to Ghost for Trouba, unless Trouba is signing for 6.5 or less. And even then, it's iffy.

 

[Starat327]

Yeah, no debate. Trouba is absolutely worth much more than a defenseman that was healthy scratched this year over his inability to actually play defense.

There isn't one of those in the proposal, so I'm not sure what you're going on about.

 

[HOPE]

is Petry too old?

 

[Dooble08]

Is trouba coming with an 8 year extension at Ghosts AAV? Cause if not, the Flyers are getting absolutely robbed here.

One more thread where an offensive D is getting undersold because of made up defensive limitations.

I'm not adding anything to Ghost for Trouba, unless Trouba is signing for 6.5 or less. And even then, it's iffy.

It's a fair point.

 

[duffy9748]

Yeah, no debate. Trouba is absolutely worth much more than a defenseman that was healthy scratched this year over his inability to actually play defense.

Trouba is a better player. I don't think many Flyers fan would disagree but you're undervaluing Gostisbehere. He's locked up a very team friendly deal for another 4 years. Trouba doesn't have that certainty. Not to mention, Ghost would be a perfect fit for Winnipeg moving forward when you factor in their upcoming cap crunch.

It's much more likely to be #11+Myers IMO than Ghost being involved.

Provorov-Ghost
Sanheim-Trouba
Morin/Hagg-Gudas

 

[Dooble08]

Any interest in Turris, Ellis or/and Subban?

Hmm Turris would be interesting for 3C. Nashville would have to retain or give the Flyers something hugely enticing to take on 6 million for the next 5 seasons though. I'm didn't pay close attention, were his struggles this season due to injury or just declining?

Ellis, I would be interested in. Subban, I don't think there is a trade to be worked out. It looks like Nashville would like a 1 for 1 trade for a scoring winger. We don't really have one that we could spare at the moment. What would you suggest as a trade for Ellis or Turris?

 

[GagneHanson12]

The 11th overall has a higher numerical value than the combined IQ of anyone happy to trade Ghost + for Trouba.

 

[CapnZin]

Yeah, no debate. Trouba is absolutely worth much more than a defenseman that was healthy scratched this year over his inability to actually play defense.

Flyers MGMT said in person:

“We knee Ghost had an injury most of the year. We really felt like we had a chance to make the playoffs and we needed him for that... which explains why his usage wasn’t up to par.”

Don’t flame. His problems aren’t necessarily defensively related. How can you talk about a player you know nothing about?

 

[TheKingPin]

That's good. Philly is one of the places where I think Trouba would be willing to go and sign long term. It would give the Flyers a rare, top pairing RHD signed for a long time.

What exactly is he looking for?

Yeah, no debate. Trouba is absolutely worth much more than a defenseman that was healthy scratched this year over his inability to actually play defense.

I wouldn’t trust the judgement of the coaching these last few years. They regularly played guys that aren’t even in the NHL or North America anymore. I’d rather have Ghost at his cap over Trouba at doubt that. Ghost was injured at the end of the year but showed he can play top pair. Provy struggled a lot this year and that made for more on Ghost at times. With all the D the flyers have they should be fine, just a matter if trouba helps them speed things up and how fast that will be and how much that matters. If trouba signs a long deal around 6 I’d trade ghost. I wouldn’t trade Myers for him. And I wouldn’t want to part with that 11OA pick as those players are looking great right now.

Maybe the Jets just hold on to him for a year and the flyers sign him in UFA.