Flint Firebirds 2019-20 Season Thread

[jprenkert]

Has anyone mentioned that both UM and MSU were away games, so no one had to try juggle where to be and when? High school football is wrapping up regular season. Could it be possible people are coming to watch a team(s) that are winning?
Even the Flints former identity struggled to attract fans, and they were in the metro Detroit area, literally off a major highway. There is alot of competition in Michigan for good hockey, specially Metro Area and north. (Windsor(OHL)/Sarnia(OHL)/Ann Arbor(B10)/East Lansing(B10)/Toledo(ECHL)/Grand Rapids(AHL)/Flint(OHL)/Saginaw(OHL)/USANDT/Bowling Green,OH(College)/Ferris State(College)) Thats alot of teams that are fighting for your dollar, along with other sports and activities.

 

[General Pete]

Another honorable mention for Flint. Great to see the recognization!

 

[TcNorth]

Has anyone mentioned that both UM and MSU were away games, so no one had to try juggle where to be and when? High school football is wrapping up regular season. Could it be possible people are coming to watch a team(s) that are winning?
Even the Flints former identity struggled to attract fans, and they were in the metro Detroit area, literally off a major highway. There is alot of competition in Michigan for good hockey, specially Metro Area and north. (Windsor(OHL)/Sarnia(OHL)/Ann Arbor(B10)/East Lansing(B10)/Toledo(ECHL)/Grand Rapids(AHL)/Flint(OHL)/Saginaw(OHL)/USANDT/Bowling Green,OH(College)/Ferris State(College)) Thats alot of teams that are fighting for your dollar, along with other sports and activities.

Doesnt matter if U of M or MSU are home or away. Each get tremendously high television ratings. There are many who would still prefer to watch a Michigan vs Penn St or Notre Dame game (home for away) than Flint vs an Ontario hockey league city. It has always been that way in Flint for the Firebirds and the Generals, and the same for Detrout Lions games on Sundays. The only reason Flint did not have near a sellout this past Saturday was because Michigan was playing at Penn State on national television.

 

[jprenkert]

I doubt it was because of that game... but i will agree to disagree that people stay home just to watch a football game as much as you suspect. With technology nowadays, they can watch the game where ever they are. Getting a near sell out is great to hear about. Means team and fans are moving in the right direction, regardless of what is "suspected" to be going on with management, etc. People will show up for a winner. Prime example, the current state of Detroit Red Wings.. they are pleading with fans to buy ticket packages while at games.

 

[TcNorth]

Loved the Generals and love the Firebirds, but if there was a big Michigan game on in the evening with no availability to watch it in the Blue Line Club, I would stay home and watch one of their 12 total games as opposed to one of the Firebirds 34 home games. I think many diehard MSU fans are the same way. We can cordially disagree, but I do not think I am the only one. With only one home game on Saturday's the last two weekends there should have been way more in attendance. There must be a reason besides GM having been on strike. However, thought last Saturday's attendance was good.

 

[Toldyaso]

First 4 games at the Dort 18/19 season Avg attendance 2004
First 4 games at the Dort 19/20 season Avg attendance 2964*
as reported by HockeyDB.com

* This assumes HockeyDB.com has the data for all 4 home games played to date.


I'm sure someone will call their cousins sister in law who's god son takes out the trash at the Dort or check their super double dog dare you secret emails to get the REAL numbers but these are the numbers from HockeyDB.com which is all I have access to.

 

[N Da No]

I doubt it was because of that game... but i will agree to disagree that people stay home just to watch a football game as much as you suspect. With technology nowadays, they can watch the game where ever they are. Getting a near sell out is great to hear about. Means team and fans are moving in the right direction, regardless of what is "suspected" to be going on with management, etc. People will show up for a winner. Prime example, the current state of Detroit Red Wings.. they are pleading with fans to buy ticket packages while at games.

Are you aware of what the Red Wings are drawing as horrid as they have played? They are playing to 97% of capacity of LCA and rank 5th overall in attendance in the NHL.

2019-2020 NHL Attendance - National Hockey League - ESPN

Whens the last time the Firebirds played to 97% capacity for the season and finished 5th in attendance in the OHL?

There are many reasons why fans have stayed away...

1 - The fiasco that continues with ownership,

2 - The lack of a winning product on the ice for the first four years in existence, one playoff victory "just ain't cutting it"

3 - The loss of population in Flint/Genesee county, I know of people who at one time had season tickets for years during the Generals tenure and now have season tickets in places such as Charlotte, NC, Nashville, TN, North Charleston, SC, Fort Myers/Naples, FL and so on and so on.

4- The mentality of having minor pro hockey for 40+ years and the built up of fierce rivalries, people have thus far not taken to junior level hockey.

5 - The pure fact that Flint is no longer a "hockey town". Remember the rivalries with Fort Wayne, Toledo and Grand Rapids" Well, those three markets last season continue to thrive at the gate. Last season averages for those markets were Fort Wayne (7,932), Toledo (7,783) and Grand Rapids (8,206) all more than double than what the Firebirds have drawn. When you have attendance numbers as those three markets produced there are no excuses in regards to attendance being blamed on outside competition.

 

[Savard18]

Are you aware of what the Red Wings are drawing as horrid as they have played? They are playing to 97% of capacity of LCA and rank 5th overall in attendance in the NHL.

2019-2020 NHL Attendance - National Hockey League - ESPN

Whens the last time the Firebirds played to 97% capacity for the season and finished 5th in attendance in the OHL?

There are many reasons why fans have stayed away...

1 - The fiasco that continues with ownership,

2 - The lack of a winning product on the ice for the first four years in existence, one playoff victory "just ain't cutting it"

3 - The loss of population in Flint/Genesee county, I know of people who at one time had season tickets for years during the Generals tenure and now have season tickets in places such as Charlotte, NC, Nashville, TN, North Charleston, SC, Fort Myers/Naples, FL and so on and so on.

4- The mentality of having minor pro hockey for 40+ years and the built up of fierce rivalries, people have thus far not taken to junior level hockey.

5 - The pure fact that Flint is no longer a "hockey town". Remember the rivalries with Fort Wayne, Toledo and Grand Rapids" Well, those three markets last season continue to thrive at the gate. Last season averages for those markets were Fort Wayne (7,932), Toledo (7,783) and Grand Rapids (8,206) all more than double than what the Firebirds have drawn. When you have attendance numbers as those three markets produced there are no excuses in regards to attendance being blamed on outside competition.

So....... when the Red Wings count tickets sold and fluff numbers it's ok? I haven't seen an 97% full regular season Red Wings game in over 20 years.

 

[Toldyaso]

Grand Rapids (8,206) AHL capacity 11,000 Apples

Fort Wayne (7,932) ECHL capacity 10,500 Oranges
Toledo (7,783) ECHL capacity 8,300 Oranges

Flint (2443) OHL capacity 4421 Raisins

Just for some perspective.
OHL League average attendance 18/19 3894
OHL west division average attendance 18/19 3460

 

[jprenkert]

So....... when the Red Wings count tickets sold and fluff numbers it's ok? I haven't seen an 97% full regular season Red Wings game in over 20 years.

I was at the first two games this year, in two different sections/levels and both times had a flyer on my seat saying i was a "winner" and to go to a meeting place to get my prize. It ended up being a ticket booth and they were asking if i wanted to buy into a 9 game pack and they would throw in a 10th game for free. I passed and both times got a generic coozie. That to me screams "not selling tickets like we should". Both times saw large sections, both upper and lower missing people. Put a great product on the ice and fans will show up. Look at Toledo.

 

[jprenkert]

And remember when comparing cities/teams/leagues. Here in the states we consider the NHL/AHL/ECHL better product than the OHL. Where in Canada the OHL is second under the NHL it seems. Many in the states know of the OHL but thats it. It is strictly a canadian league as there are only 3 US teams.
If you think this attendance is terrible, look at the USNDT in plymouth. I think maybe 500 show, if that show up. And last year they had what, like 10 first rd picks??

 

[HockeyPops]

OHL League average attendance 18/19 3894
OHL west division Average attendance 18/19 3460

Caveat 1: Any division that doesn't include London & Kitchener will find itself below the league average. The Midwest is always above the league average.
Caveat 2: In 2018-2019 3 of the bottom 4 Western Conference teams were from the west division and thus their attendance figures suffered. The other bottom team from our conference was Erie with an average attendance of 3193.

 

[Toldyaso]

Caveat 1: Any division that doesn't include London & Kitchener will find itself below the league average. The Midwest is always above the league average.
Caveat 2: In 2018-2019 3 of the bottom 4 Western Conference teams were from the west division and thus their attendance figures suffered. The other bottom team from our conference was Erie with an average attendance of 3193.

Yes that is why The first number is the league wide avg and the second number was to show the average for teams in the same general geographical area. I thought the caveats were obvious and did not bear mentioning in this instance.

 

[MJ5]

There are many reasons why fans have stayed away...

1 - The fiasco that continues with ownership,

.

LOL.

Literally no one cares about the ownership of the team, I've never heard any random fan bring it up. That is definitely not keeping people from going to the games.

 

[jprenkert]

Not even deterring the person who mentioned it!

 

[MJ5]

Unbelievable.

Ownership is a joke.

 

[N Da No]

Unbelievable.

Ownership is a joke.

[/

Wow, I would have never thought to see those words from you.

Unbelievable.

 

[TcNorth]

Are you aware of what the Red Wings are drawing as horrid as they have played? They are playing to 97% of capacity of LCA and rank 5th overall in attendance in the NHL.

2019-2020 NHL Attendance - National Hockey League - ESPN

Whens the last time the Firebirds played to 97% capacity for the season and finished 5th in attendance in the OHL?

There are many reasons why fans have stayed away...

1 - The fiasco that continues with ownership,

2 - The lack of a winning product on the ice for the first four years in existence, one playoff victory "just ain't cutting it"

3 - The loss of population in Flint/Genesee county, I know of people who at one time had season tickets for years during the Generals tenure and now have season tickets in places such as Charlotte, NC, Nashville, TN, North Charleston, SC, Fort Myers/Naples, FL and so on and so on.

4- The mentality of having minor pro hockey for 40+ years and the built up of fierce rivalries, people have thus far not taken to junior level hockey.

5 - The pure fact that Flint is no longer a "hockey town". Remember the rivalries with Fort Wayne, Toledo and Grand Rapids" Well, those three markets last season continue to thrive at the gate. Last season averages for those markets were Fort Wayne (7,932), Toledo (7,783) and Grand Rapids (8,206) all more than double than what the Firebirds have drawn. When you have attendance numbers as those three markets produced there are no excuses in regards to attendance being blamed on outside competition.

N Da No, although I agree with some things you have said here, Grand Rapids was never a true rival of Flint. They only played 3 years in the 70’s against Flint in the IHL. The IHL’s Toledo Goaldiggers folded because of declining attendance in an old barn before they built a new 9,000 seat arena. When Flint won the Turner Cup in Toledo in a 4 game sweep in ‘84 the attendance was announced at 3,002 although there were an estimated 1,500 Flint fans in attendance that night. I agree that more success will bring more people to the Dort, but think that will happen regardless of who the owner is.

 

[Savard18]

N Da No, although I agree with some things you have said here, Grand Rapids was never a true rival of Flint. They only played 3 years in the 70’s against Flint in the IHL. The IHL’s Toledo Goaldiggers folded because of declining attendance in an old barn before they built a new 9,000 seat arena. When Flint won the Turner Cup in Toledo in a 4 game sweep in ‘84 the attendance was announced at 3,002 although there were an estimated 1,500 Flint fans in attendance that night. I agree that more success will bring more people to the Dort, but think that will happen regardless of who the owner is.

She didn't bother comparing them to Dayton, Port Huron, Kalamazoo or Peoria.....or Plymouth for that matter. I think Flint stands a chance to get better attendance this year than any year in the history of the Whalers. Or how about their ColHL or UHL rivalries? How are things going in Chatham or Thunder Bay?

 

[Savard18]

Unbelievable.

Ownership is a joke.

Nope. Best owner EVER. #Lovin'Rolfie.

 

[Toldyaso]

Nope. Best owner EVER. #Lovin'Rolfie.

I get it man but remember Rolf and the league management team never fired you from anything. That sort of thing changes your perspective.

 

[General Pete]

"Ownership is joke. They don't know what they are doing. They don't care about the fans, just themselves. They just have the team for their son and are selling, packing up and leaving for Chatham once he is gone." LOL!

Seems to me like the investments haven't stopped. May have even increased? The Firebirds are here to stay. Lets move on from those stupid conversations and the guy who was fired from the Firebirds now. Two good games this weekend. Ill be there Saturday, got a wedding to attend tomorrow.

 

[MJ5]

Nope. Best owner EVER. #Lovin'Rolfie.

I feel like we should start wearing
#FreeRolf tshirts.

 

[dirty12]

She didn't bother comparing them to Dayton, Port Huron, Kalamazoo or Peoria.....or Plymouth for that matter. I think Flint stands a chance to get better attendance this year than any year in the history of the Whalers. Or how about their ColHL or UHL rivalries? How are things going in Chatham or Thunder Bay?

Easy 12 hr drive for Flint to Thunder Bay

 

[TcNorth]

Brendan Savage at the Journal has good stories about taking the bus to Thunder Bay.