Series Discussion: Flames - Jets (Flames Win 3-1)

[Iggys Dome]

That would be nice.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Monahan - Czarnik
Quine - Ryan - Rieder

Flip Monahan and Bennett and those lines are great. Lol

 

[Mazatt]

Take away the size bias, and Czarnik and Quine are the best cyclers, possession driving wingers, and generally energy players.

I'm a big proponent of Czarnik but does he provide more energy and also protection than Lucic? Same with Quine. In fact, when has Quine ever created energy or cycled? Czarnik I can see for the offensive side of things but in a playoff series I don't see how you can say Czarnik and Alan Quine are more effective Lucic when it comes to the role we want on the third line. Like, not at all.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I'm a big proponent of Czarnik but does he provide more energy and also protection than Lucic?

Absolutely. His speed on the forecheck has created absolute havok in the past. The Bennett - Jankowski - Czarnik had a game against the Islanders last year where they absolutely suffocated Long Island's players with their tenacity, and it really wasn't Jankowski leading the charge, it was Bennett and Czarnik. If anything, the way Czarnik and Bennett play together is the closest thing we have to the old Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist line from the 2016 Penguins.

You seem to be associating energy exclusively with "hitting". I'm not. Czarnik's forechecking energy is more of a difference maker than anything guys like Lucic, Rinaldo, etc etc can bring.

As for protection?

It's a myth, unless that player is on the same line. The only way you could get protection for a guy like Gaudreau is to have a high skill player who'll still throw it down, like Bennett on the same line. Having Lucic in your bottom six doesn't deter anyone when Gaudreau is out there with Sean Monahan.

In fact, when has Quine ever created energy or cycled

Do you not remember when Quine and Bennett played together last year? I forget who the third forward was (I want to say Jankowski? Maybe Ryan?) but that line was dominant. Quine and Bennett really had chemistry on the cycle.

Quine's had his struggles as a Flame, because we keep asking the impossible of him (centering a line, when he should be playing the wing)

 

[Iggys Dome]

Absolutely. His speed on the forecheck has created absolute havok in the past. The Bennett - Jankowski - Czarnik had a game against the Islanders last year where they absolutely suffocated Long Island's players with their tenacity, and it really wasn't Jankowski leading the charge, it was Bennett and Czarnik. If anything, the way Czarnik and Bennett play together is the closest thing we have to the old Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist line from the 2016 Penguins.

You seem to be associating energy exclusively with "hitting". I'm not. Czarnik's forechecking energy is more of a difference maker than anything guys like Lucic, Rinaldo, etc etc can bring.

As for protection?

It's a myth, unless that player is on the same line. The only way you could get protection for a guy like Gaudreau is to have a high skill player who'll still throw it down, like Bennett on the same line. Having Lucic in your bottom six doesn't deter anyone when Gaudreau is out there with Sean Monahan.



Do you not remember when Quine and Bennett played together last year? I forget who the third forward was (I want to say Jankowski? Maybe Ryan?) but that line was dominant. Quine and Bennett really had chemistry on the cycle.

Quine's had his struggles as a Flame, because we keep asking the impossible of him (centering a line, when he should be playing the wing)

Quine and Czarnik are fantastic depth options IMO, safe and effective. They both can chip in offensively, I hope we keep both of them past this season but I really only see us keeping Quine.

 

[Mazatt]

Absolutely. His speed on the forecheck has created absolute havok in the past. The Bennett - Jankowski - Czarnik had a game against the Islanders last year where they absolutely suffocated Long Island's players with their tenacity, and it really wasn't Jankowski leading the charge, it was Bennett and Czarnik. If anything, the way Czarnik and Bennett play together is the closest thing we have to the old Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist line from the 2016 Penguins.

You seem to be associating energy exclusively with "hitting". I'm not. Czarnik's forechecking energy is more of a difference maker than anything guys like Lucic, Rinaldo, etc etc can bring.

As for protection?

It's a myth, unless that player is on the same line. The only way you could get protection for a guy like Gaudreau is to have a high skill player who'll still throw it down, like Bennett on the same line. Having Lucic in your bottom six doesn't deter anyone when Gaudreau is out there with Sean Monahan.



Do you not remember when Quine and Bennett played together last year? I forget who the third forward was (I want to say Jankowski? Maybe Ryan?) but that line was dominant. Quine and Bennett really had chemistry on the cycle.

Quine's had his struggles as a Flame, because we keep asking the impossible of him (centering a line, when he should be playing the wing)

I don' want to mention it, but comparing Czarnik and Bennett to Crosby? Tf?

Czarnik's speed on the forecheck is useful but does it provide more than Rinaldo's forecheck? If it does then he should be on the fourth line with Ryan, not out there with Bennett and Dube. Dube and Bennett already provide the forechecking needed to cause turnovers and Lucic is effective in the corners. That's the big thing you ignore, Dube and Bennett work well with Lucic due to his ability to produce in the corners. And that's what I mean by protection. He is big and works effectively in the corners, freeing Bennett and Dube to work into the slot or get other opportunities instead of taking shots in the corners from the Jets.

Again, I see no reason Czarnik shouldn't be in the lineup but it shouldn't be at the expense of moving Lucic down. If his speed and tenacity create energy, use it in tandem with Rieder's and have them work the 4th line forecheck and have Ryan distribute the puck offensively, but we are beyond killing a good thing we have with Lucic and Dube on the off chance Czar makes it work. He has to cement himself on the 4th line before he is in the conversation with the third line. I can see him getting there but that's a big move to make in the playoffs.

Same thing with Quine, I'd want to see how he produces THIS season before demoting Lucic. That's the big thing here, for me, is controlling ego's and what not. Lucic is a guy who almost quite after going onto the 4th line with Peters. What do we do to his confidence if we throw Quine or Czarnik there, and they don't stick? By starting them on the 4th line, we don't fear a thing as far as losing Lucic's intensity. If they earn it, they can take his spot and he'd probably see they were deserving of it, but to go from a healthy scratch to taking his spot would make him seriously question what he's doing and if he's contributing effectively, and I'd rather not have the unnecessary distraction.

 

[Anglesmith]

I will join the throngs calling for a new coach if Forbort plays tomorrow.

 

[Mazatt]

Tkachuk needs to impact the game beyond just being a grinder tomorrow. It's great to see him hit but he has no primary points at 5v5 in the playoffs. Any playoffs. For a difference maker like him he needs to find a way to produce. If he can't I don't see how we can confidently move on from Gaudreau and have him as our focal offensive piece when he can't produce behind Gaudreau.

 

[Anglesmith]

Tkachuk needs to impact the game beyond just being a grinder tomorrow. It's great to see him hit but he has no primary points at 5v5 in the playoffs. Any playoffs. For a difference maker like him he needs to find a way to produce. If he can't I don't see how we can confidently move on from Gaudreau and have him as our focal offensive piece when he can't produce behind Gaudreau.

Tkachuk didn't have a bad offensive game today, honestly. He had a few great chances and was confident with the puck on the PP. Once again the team as a whole is turning the puck over on exits way too often, meaning we end up with a lot less time on attack, which globally reduces the offence of all members of the team. Similar story as last year, but obviously not as bad. Every offensive player is going to look bad if most of our possessions are on the back foot just trying to keep hold of the puck.

If we clean up our transition game, our offence will suddenly come alive. It's easy to pin the blame on Forbort because his issues are the most noticeable, but he's far from alone, and it's been an issue for this team dating back to the end of last year. I hope if we get a new coach, this is something fixable.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Take away the size bias, and Czarnik and Quine are the best cyclers, possession driving wingers, and generally energy players.

Trouble for Flames if those 2 are the best cycles, possession driving wingers. They played in the A most of the year. And last time I saw him play, Alan Quine was a Center. Anyhow, just saying m.o.

 

[Mazatt]

SiT lUcIc, 3rD lInE wInGeR mOnOhAn.

The way the fanbase overreacts is crazy to me. All of our top 3 lines were clicking today, Forbot defended well, Lucic scored. Jankowski wasn't even bad, he was inoffensive on both ends of the ice tonight. But complaining and demanding Lucic be sat after 2 points in 2 games in the playoffs shows how overreacting to the fact the Flames lost a close game is the dumbest shit you can do, and that separating a line that has showed chemistry in the past, and literally in game 1, would also be stupid as hell. Thank god Ward isn't as uber-reactionary as you guys.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Love Lucic.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

SiT lUcIc, 3rD lInE wInGeR mOnOhAn.

The way the fanbase overreacts is crazy to me. All of our top 3 lines were clicking today, Forbot defended well, Lucic scored. Jankowski wasn't even bad, he was inoffensive on both ends of the ice tonight. But complaining and demanding Lucic be sat after 2 points in 2 games in the playoffs shows how overreacting to the fact the Flames lost a close game is the dumbest shit you can do, and that separating a line that has showed chemistry in the past, and literally in game 1, would also be stupid as hell. Thank god Ward isn't as uber-reactionary as you guys.

Ummm the 2nd line was the only one that actually produced any offense at ES (excluding EN).

The pp was better but the team as a whole didn't really play all that well at 5v5.

 

[Mobiandi]

SiT lUcIc, 3rD lInE wInGeR mOnOhAn.

The way the fanbase overreacts is crazy to me. All of our top 3 lines were clicking today, Forbot defended well, Lucic scored. Jankowski wasn't even bad, he was inoffensive on both ends of the ice tonight. But complaining and demanding Lucic be sat after 2 points in 2 games in the playoffs shows how overreacting to the fact the Flames lost a close game is the dumbest shit you can do, and that separating a line that has showed chemistry in the past, and literally in game 1, would also be stupid as hell. Thank god Ward isn't as uber-reactionary as you guys.

Lucic had a total meltdown over the space of three shifts, including a selfish penalty leading to a goal against, after having his goal disallowed. A round-robin team would've put the boots to us if we handed over momentum to them so casually. He's been fine this series but is this a guy we need? I hope not for our sake

 

[Mazatt]

Ummm the 2nd line was the only one that actually produced any offense at ES (excluding EN).

The pp was better but the team as a whole didn't really play all that well at 5v5.

Do you forget the second period, especially following the Backlund's line shift where they followed in, cycled effectively, and Lucic scored a goal that got called back? The team was actually pretty good at 5v5, the 1st line pressured well with the forecheck and were able to get chances on the rush and the third line cycled well and the only real downside was Lucic's stretch where he had two bad turnovers and the penalty, but he was solid. Don't get where the poor 5v5 play comes into the picture.

 

[Anglesmith]

In terms of 5-on-5 play, we weren't dominant, but we also weren't bad outside of the first 10 minutes or so and the last few minutes of garbage time. The first half of the first period was an absolute mess. We couldn't handle the puck in transition, and also couldn't do anything to prevent them from easily transitioning the puck. After the Ehlers goal, things got a lot better in a hurry. We carried the puck through neutral ice more effectively than they did, and that led to us drawing more penalties.

While the first line weren't lighting the world on fire 5-on-5, they were playing against the Jets' top line with Connor and Wheeler and were absolutely the better of those two lines. The ineffectiveness of the Jets' top line is a credit to ours.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

We absolutely dominated that game. What game are you guys watching?

the Jets has like no quality chances basically the whole game. They had similar shots on the clock as to be expected in a blowout but we were the only team doing anything dangerous out there.

Talbot looks solid in there.

 

[CraigsList]

Giving a shoutout to Lindholm, the dude has been giving it his all every shift. He’s been a great addition to this team.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

We def had the greater chances, hell it could have easily been 8-2.

Sad that it took Monny getting pushed into the boards to wake up, but he looked alot better after that.

I've never complained about Lucic or Bennett, and now we can see why players like that are needed.

Hope its over Thursday so we can rest for a bit. Still going to need some magic going forward.

 

[Rubi]

These were the line combinations in the last game. Is everyone happy with them? I am.

 

[Deen]

These were the line combinations in the last game. Is everyone happy with them? I am.

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I won't be happy until Lucic is fired in to the sun. Should have kept Frolik and benched Lucic all year. The fact he still gets penciled in on the 2nd PP is just beyond me.

 

[Iggys Dome]

I won't be happy until Lucic is fired in to the sun. Should have kept Frolik and benched Lucic all year. The fact he still gets penciled in on the 2nd PP is just beyond me.

Hey Looch is a PPG don’t disrespect him like that

 

[Deen]

I honestly think we should let Valimaki play, even if we have to expose Gio. Could always send Seattle a pick to choose someone else.

 

[Rubi]

I honestly think we should let Valimaki play, even if we have to expose Gio. Could always send Seattle a pick to choose someone else.

Totally against this idea. There is no need whatsoever to have Valimaki in the lineup and what kind of message does it send to expose the Captain of the team? All I see are negatives. Nope... I would be furious if management did this.

 

[Rubi]

I won't be happy until Lucic is fired in to the sun. Should have kept Frolik and benched Lucic all year. The fact he still gets penciled in on the 2nd PP is just beyond me.

He plays the 2nd PP simply because he's a big body in front of the net who's tough to move. I don't mind him there as long as he stays there and doesn't get it into his head that he's a top of the circle sniper.
Lucic isn't going anywhere for the next two years... you may as well get used to it. I'll still take Lucic any day as a replacement for the useless James Neal.

 

[Dack]

These were the line combinations in the last game. Is everyone happy with them? I am.

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Nope the first line has been a tire fire for over a year at 5v5, it's time to make a change there.