Series Discussion: Flames - Jets (Flames Win 3-1)

[Kranix]

Sure. But consider the other factors working against him:

- Line mates: Not just crappy ones that don't work well for his style, but inconsistent.
- Systems: He's played under Hartly, Gully 1.0, Gully 2.0, Peters and Ward to start his career. That's kinda a crappy situation.

I don't disagree with your assessment at all. I'm merely pondering whether there's more at play here than the typical "low IQ" discussion.

Right but why is he not getting consistent linemates?

 

[Fig]

Right but why is he not getting consistent linemates?

Because Treliving sucks at UFA, no room in top 6 and so Bennett gets stuck with failed RW options like Brouwer, Fallen Frolik and "My stick keeps breaking because they discontinued my old one" Neal?

Some of the previous chemistry 4th line youngster lines were because they played together in Stockton. Bennett didn't have that either.

Again, I don't disagree with your assessment, but as a full on bust, the part that irks me is that I've seen Bennett play differently before and he's sealed off a ton of skills he displayed when he first entered the league. A garden variety bust never changes how he plays from Junior and onward. Bennett has displayed a variety of skills before. He's holding back right now somehow or as I am currently wondering out loud right now, is whether he is being held back due to circumstances.

Yes, his IQ isn't high enough to be successful in the current circumstances (vs someone like Tkachuk who would be able to figure out how to make it work on the 3rd line IMO). But I think the situation is more complicated than that and you can't Occam's razor it to merely being "dumb".

 

[Kranix]

Because Treliving sucks at UFA, no room in top 6 and so Bennett gets stuck with failed RW options like Brouwer, Fallen Frolik and "My stick keeps breaking because they discontinued my old one" Neal?

Some of the previous chemistry 4th line youngster lines were because they played together in Stockton. Bennett didn't have that either.

Again, I don't disagree with your assessment, but as a full on bust, the part that irks me is that I've seen Bennett play differently before and he's sealed off a ton of skills he displayed when he first entered the league. A garden variety bust never changes how he plays from Junior and onward. Bennett has displayed a variety of skills before. He's holding back right now somehow or as I am currently wondering out loud right now, is whether he is being held back due to circumstances.

Yes, his IQ isn't high enough to be successful in the current circumstances (vs someone like Tkachuk who would be able to figure out how to make it work on the 3rd line IMO). But I think the situation is more complicated than that and you can't Occam's razor it to merely being "dumb".

Good points. Perhaps if Lindholm had never been acquired Bennett could be playing 1RW.
I've just seen him actually squander so many scoring chances that like you said, ex. Tkachuk would have made no mistake on, no matter who he was playing with, that it is pretty simple.
By now he should have either forced them to put him in the top 6 or created his own scoring line 3.
He's not a bust, he's a regular NHLer, but he'll always be a disappointment because he turned into Chad Kilger instead of Mitch Marner.
And you're right the best isn't yet to come if he's on the 4th line. Maybe he does something in the playoffs.

 

[Fig]

Good points. Perhaps if Lindholm had never been acquired Bennett could be playing 1RW.
I've just seen him actually squander so many scoring chances that like you said, ex. Tkachuk would have made no mistake on, no matter who he was playing with, that it is pretty simple.
By now he should have either forced them to put him in the top 6 or created his own scoring line 3.
He's not a bust, he's a regular NHLer, but he'll always be a disappointment because he turned into Chad Kilger instead of Mitch Marner.
And you're right the best isn't yet to come if he's on the 4th line. Maybe he does something in the playoffs.

Agreed he's a regular NHLer.

I was mainly saying that garden variety busts don't look different from their Junior days to NHL days which is why they fail. This is the reason why I'm wondering, about things and also thinking he's going to be a late bloomer. Bennett seems to have tried to change his game which is why it is different. It actually looks like shades of Baertschi IMO and Barts would be successful with the change in game right now if it wasn't for concussion issues.

After he was tried at 3C (away from Backlund on 2nd line), he kept getting pushed out by the two potential positions available in the top 6. One was 1RW, the other was 2LW. He did quite well with Backlund IMO.

Tkachuk took 2LW and Ferland + Lindholm took 1RW and stuck. Other top 6 options that busted were Brouwer and Neal who were sent to play with Frolik. The only other guys that stick out to me that bounced on the roster worse than Bennett in recent memory with inconsistent line mates was Stajan and Ryan. But even they were often more likely to retain the centre position as well as play swing wing as well. I just realized Bennett doesn't consistently play wing or centre either.

Agreed. I hope Bennett goes gang busters during the ploffs.

 

[Mazatt]

When exactly was Bennett producing this year consistently enough to be rewarded though?

I'm not going to touch on the "essay" portion since it's based off something I didn't say, but I didn't mention consistent production. Part of the barrier for any player getting consistent production is having good linemates. So when there's a moment wher Bennett produces, i.e. in that 4 or so game stretch mentioned, it's idiotic that he's demoted right after that for a sick Ryan to play on the third line and struggle. That's the situation I'm referring to here, not when Bennett didn't produce before that--I know he didn't produce. I'm talking about when he did produce and then got demoted. That's the unfair part I'm talking about.

 

[JPeeper]

Chris Snow isn't telling Ward how to put together his lines.

Then good thing we have advanced stats to use. Oh wait.

 

[JPeeper]

I really want to see more Hanifin - Andersson this ploffs and see what happens. It wasn't great before and barely better than Hanifin - Hamonic. Hopefully we see more chemistry during the ploffs.

What? Hanifin-Andersson was a great pairing and when Gio was hurt they were our top pairing and they were fine playing there.

 

[Fig]

What? Hanifin-Andersson was a great pairing and when Gio was hurt they were our top pairing and they were fine playing there.

Splitting hairs, but if memory serves, it was passable for a bit, but then tapered off significantly similar to Kris Russell in the top 4 situation. At the time I seem to recall we kinda explained it away as two young guys who are close but not fully ready yet.

The two are more familiar and settled now with more games under their belts. Here's hoping that they take the ball and just run and develop great chemistry.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Why do you think Bennett isn't getting the opportunities with better players then?

Because he was drafted to a team that had a "30 goal 1C" and a "Selke" 2C, and two top 10 in NHL left wingers. That is four left handed shot forwards who by default get played ahead of Bennett. I'll be the first to tell you that as left wingers, both Tkachuk and Gaudreau are better than Bennett, because that's their natural position and they can play their own game there. Bennett is a center, and this organization has been mishandling center centers dating back to Marc Savard.

Now I don't think Backlund is as good as Bennett offensively, but I do think his defensive play warrants his minutes.

What I don't think is that Monahan is anywhere near the complete center Bennett is. This team is complacent to settle for his 30 goals a year and annual first round playoff exit built around a center who's actually just a winger that takes faceoffs. Every year it's the same top line failing over and over again, the GM just changes coaches and they try the same thing.

What do the coaches have against him?

Hartley got fired for Jonas Hiller's goaltending. He had nothing against Bennett. He had Bennett centering Gaudreau at first, but needed to get a slumping Monahan going and ruined a good thing. Then he had Bennett play top six where he had a solid rookie campaign for a guy playing out of position. And then he closed the year centering some of our bottom sixers - guys like Colborne and Bouma. The numbers weren't there with Bouma missing wide open nets and Jooris proving to be a one-hit-wonder but Hartley saw the potential 1C. He was raving about Bennett that summer, talking about how he felt Bennett was already ready to be hard matching with the Kopitars of the world. A week later Tre fired him.

Gulutzan didn't know how to handle a young talented center. Even then, Gulutzan compared Bennett to Tyler Seguin after his first year of coaching him. He clearly thought Bennett was due for a breakout. Unfortunately he didn't have a clue what he was doing. He got fired for this reason.

Peters just never figured out centers. Same coach who turned Eric Staal into a failure of a Left Winger, and drafted Lindholm only to turn him into a permanent RW. Remember, there was a time Eric Staal was considered "done" as a top six forward. You want to know what period of his career that was? Hint Hint.

All that leaves is Ward, and he might be the most clueless of the bunch. Everything he's done so far is just a combination of a few things that worked for Peters for a few months. He's not an NHL caliber head coach.

Why do I think Bennett isn't getting the opportunities with better players? Because the organization doesn't have a clue what they're doing. As soon as this kid leaves this organization, someone's going to look at him and say "holy shit. We've found the answer to all our problems."

Right but why is he not getting consistent linemates?

The simple answer is that he's an afterthought to the organization. Even when he led the team in playoff scoring, a point per game, they had him second-to-last in ice time.

This team is All-In on Sean Monahan.

Lol.

There's no team in the NHL that would actually think Monahan's a guy who can take a team to the promised land, but this organization will live and die with him.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Sam Bennett won't be the best Sam Bennett that Sam Bennett can be until he gains about 15 lbs.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I should criticize Bennett more often. I thought he had a pretty good game last night.

 

[Fig]

I should criticize Bennett more often. I thought he had a pretty good game last night.

Mangiapane - Bennett - Dube sounds like it would be a fun combo to try out.

 

[Kranix]

Backlund-Mangiapane should be a third line. That's on Tre

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Because Treliving sucks at UFA, no room in top 6

Only because the coaches lack anything resembling ambition.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Ryan - Monahan
IDC - IDC - IDC

 

[Fig]

Only because the coaches lack anything resembling ambition.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Ryan - Monahan
IDC - IDC - IDC

Y'know what? Maybe they should just do it. Worse case scenario, we can Laf about it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Only because the coaches lack anything resembling ambition.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Ryan - Monahan
IDC - IDC - IDC

Sometimes I think I'm just your alt account

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I should criticize Bennett more often. I thought he had a pretty good game last night.

That's because he was playing center.

 

[Mazatt]

That's because he was playing center.

He played centre for a third of the game

 

[Iggys Dome]

Jets looking good

 

[Corpus X]

That first overall is looking more attainable each day!

 

[libertarian]

Jet fan here. The Canucks were the better team tonight. Jets won 4/1. Helle played like he is in mid season form. The rest of the Jets looked bad and were out played by the Canucks. If Helle plays like tonight against the Flames then they are in major trouble. I think the Flames and the Jets are so close in talent that it is a crap shoot on who wins the series. If Helle plays like he did tonight against the Canucks when playing the Flames the Jets will wins the series.

 

[JPeeper]

The Jets offence when in the zone is pretty good, but their defensive coverage is atrocious. Jets defence is abysmal. Hellybuyck was as advertised, a game changer. Depends what Flames offence shows up, the one where we actually score goals or just get 46 shots with only 3 high danger chances.

I Think Flames lose 3-1.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He played centre for a third of the game

And that was where his best shifts occurred.

I don't understand the resistance to Bennett playing center. He's so wasted on the wing.

 

[CraigsList]

And that was where his best shifts occurred.

I don't understand the resistance to Bennett playing center. He's so wasted on the wing.

Because Monahan - Backlund - Ryan are better centers.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Because Monahan - Backlund - Ryan are better centers.

Are all three of those guys also wasted on the wing? I didn't think so. I would think Monahan would be a very solid winger because of his composure and hands around the net. And we know Ryan is an effective winger.