Flames fire Geoff Ward, name Darryl Sutter head coach

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I imagine it's a lot easier to find a new coach than a GM, especially with a trade deadline on the horizon They weren't going to make major player movements this season anyway so if a GM replacement is in the future it makes sense to do that in the offseason. A coaching change has always been and will always be the easiest and quickest fix. Sutter's term is irrelevant. A new GM can still bring in their guy.

I somehow doubt Flames ownership wants to pay for... 3 coaches not currently helping them?

 

[blankall]

I dunno, I feel like someone could very easily earn tenure especially with an incoming GM.

And it probably was the owners who made the move, which just raises further questions. You've already basically selected the coach for the next GM, just seems like backwards thinking and might scare a few guys away who would want to bring in their own coach.

The thinking is they want to salvage this season, where there's still great potential to succeed. So they bring in a coach, a professional and experienced one. Otherwise, they bring in a potential short term replacement, which means potentially, 5 coaches in 3 years.

Also, coaches, unlike players, can be bought out at any time. If Darryl isn't working out, you buy him out.

 

[MikeK]

I somehow doubt Flames ownership wants to pay for... 3 coaches not currently helping them?

At most it'll be one year of Sutter's contract they pay for. This year will obviously be burnt. Highly unlikely a new GM comes in and boots Sutter in the first year so Sutter will no doubt get next season as well. So that leaves his last year. Like I said, it's irrelevant.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Why bring him in for three years though? Why not just hire him interim and let whoever Trevling's replacement is evaluate?

Passing up on Gallant for a retread seems like a mistake made by a desperate organization.

Maybe Alberta just loves its retreads.

He probably would only come out of retirement for a real commitment to him. I have a hard time knocking bringing in a 2 time cup champ coach. I've wanted Gallant for a while but who knows if he said no or wanted a even longer contract.

Ultimately we brought in a coach who will demand effort every night which has been Calgary’s biggest fault the last couple of years.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Is there a particular reason the GM hasn't been fired yet?

One has to think he's gone if things don't improve.

 

[PsYcNeT]

Is there a particular reason the GM hasn't been fired yet?

One has to think he's gone if things don't improve.

He's a curious GM in that he's really good in some areas of the job, and abysmal in others. Unless there's a better option, I say keep him around at least until the draft is done.

 

[Hockeyholic]

He's a curious GM in that he's really good in some areas of the job, and abysmal in others. Unless there's a better option, I say keep him around at least until the draft is done.

Most GM's get two coaches to fire. Then, they are out the door.

It's clear he can't pick coaches. Which is probably the most important part about being a GM.

It's odd he keeps surviving.

 

[Fig]

Most GM's get two coaches to fire. Then, they are out the door.

It's clear he can't pick coaches. Which is probably the most important part about being a GM.

It's odd he keeps surviving.

He inherited Hartley, hired Gulutzan and Peters, promoted Ward. Sutter, unsure if it's Treliving or ownership. Treliving has been willing to move on from his errors quickly in the past, but the Sutter thing is very left field and smells more of ownership.

Hartley and Gully he fired, Peters resigned, Ward was an interim. I'm also assuming Ward was agreed upon by ownership who decided to save a few bucks in a Covid environment hoping that Ward improved from last season. Ward got worse.

Treliving has honestly done a fantastic job in many areas other than coaching and on ice performance. I could see him being retained by ownership, but I can also see why ownership perhaps wanted to step in with a minor tweak of their own (ie: Sutter).

 

[blankall]

IMO Ward was never meant to be long-term. He was an interim coach after they had to make an emergency firing of Peters, due to his racism scandal. The Flames organization has probably been looking for a better option for a while, but the market isn't great and Covid doesn't help.

I'm guessing they had to coax Sutter out of retirement, with a descent amount of cash. Honestly, with the way fans were losing interest watching Ward's team flounder and come out flat, hiring Sutter is probably going to boost revenue enough that whatever they pay him is worth it.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Why bring him in for three years though? Why not just hire him interim and let whoever Trevling's replacement is evaluate?

Passing up on Gallant for a retread seems like a mistake made by a desperate organization.

Maybe Alberta just loves its retreads.

After two previous coaching stops, wouldn't Gallant be considered a "retread" (albeit with alot smaller body of success)?

 

[JKG33]

Where is this narrative that the Flames don't have a strong offence coming from? Even in this mess of a season they have 4 forwards at around a 70 point pace. Then they have Backlund, Dube, and Mangiapane all at .5 ppg. If Sutter can get more out of those guys plus inspire the bottom 6, that's very solid.

I never said they were terrible, but if you compare them to the cup winning Kings which I was, then yea its not ideal. They had 2 selke level centers with Kopitar and Richards, a fairly recent 40 goal scorer in Carter, and one of the best power forwards in the league with Brown. And all of those guys were capable of stepping up in the playoffs. Tkachuk is really the only one who can hang with those 4, and thats only when he's not throwing a temper tantrum like the spoiled brat he is.

I don't see that kind of success with this Calgary team. Yea sure they can put up points in a very weak division (seriously, who isn't putting up points in the North? Lots of guys going to come crashing down to earth whenever the divisions go back to normal), but that doesn't mean much.

 

[Volica]

Most GM's get two coaches to fire. Then, they are out the door.

It's clear he can't pick coaches. Which is probably the most important part about being a GM.

It's odd he keeps surviving.

To be fair, he inherited a bad coach, fired his first coach, then the second coach he hired got cancelled. Ward was just kind of the guy there to hold the pieces together.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

I think they want to see if this get an instant reaction from the players, and lights a fire under their arse since they need to turn it around relatively quickly. Giving Sutter a multi-year contract is a motivator that if they loaf around, they won't be on the roster in the future since Sutter won't be impressed.

That being said I'm not sure how much Sutter can turn it around in 32 games in a condensed schedule from a structure POV. I guess the Flames are hoping they can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that into the playoffs.

Haven't watched Flames that closely. Is there enough there for them to pull a St. Louis Blues of a couple seasons ago or is that too much to expect?

 

[Volica]

I never said they were terrible, but if you compare them to the cup winning Kings which I was, then yea its not ideal. They had 2 selke level centers with Kopitar and Richards, a fairly recent 40 goal scorer in Carter, and one of the best power forwards in the league with Brown. And all of those guys were capable of stepping up in the playoffs. Tkachuk is really the only one who can hang with those 4, and thats only when he's not throwing a temper tantrum like the spoiled brat he is.

I don't see that kind of success with this Calgary team. Yea sure they can put up points in a very weak division (seriously, who isn't putting up points in the North? Lots of guys going to come crashing down to earth whenever the divisions go back to normal), but that doesn't mean much.

Lindholm and Backlund are both elite two-way centremen. There’s no one at Kopitar‘s level of course in terms of overall play... but the pieces are there to be a hard team to play against.

 

[TheHudlinator]

To be fair, he inherited a bad coach, fired his first coach, then the second coach he hired got cancelled. Ward was just kind of the guy there to hold the pieces together.

The bad coach he inherited took the team as far as any coach he picked, either Hartley wasn't bad or he can't pick coaches.

 

[Volica]

The bad coach he inherited took the team as far as any coach he picked, either Hartley wasn't bad or he can't pick coaches.

On a PDO fuelled joy ride.
Peters got the most out of this team in year 1.

 

[TheHudlinator]

On a PDO fuelled joy ride.
Peters got the most out of this team in year 1.

High PDO or not no coach has taken better rosters deeper than Hartley. Again either Hartley wasn't nearly as bad as some love to claim or Trev is terrible at finding coaches. Hartley even lost his #1 defenseman.

 

[blankall]

I never said they were terrible, but if you compare them to the cup winning Kings which I was, then yea its not ideal. They had 2 selke level centers with Kopitar and Richards, a fairly recent 40 goal scorer in Carter, and one of the best power forwards in the league with Brown. And all of those guys were capable of stepping up in the playoffs. Tkachuk is really the only one who can hang with those 4, and thats only when he's not throwing a temper tantrum like the spoiled brat he is.

I don't see that kind of success with this Calgary team. Yea sure they can put up points in a very weak division (seriously, who isn't putting up points in the North? Lots of guys going to come crashing down to earth whenever the divisions go back to normal), but that doesn't mean much.

Richards was out of the league a year after winning that second cup. Now lets talk about the rest of the forward lineup behind Kopitar, Richards, and Carter in 2011/12....Williams....Brown.....and then Jarett Stoll with a whopping 21 points in 78 games.

I think the Flames are still a long shot, but to write them off because they don't have the offensive depth is absurd. If Sutter is able to get a full effort out of this team, they'll be fine. The Flames finished first and tied for most goals in the West just 2 seasons ago.

 

[Del Preston]

 

[Volica]

Haven't watched Flames that closely. Is there enough there for them to pull a St. Louis Blues of a couple seasons ago or is that too much to expect?

Well. Here's the thing, Flames have the pieces to be a really hard out.
Not they have an elite team where you have a Norris D, a Selke C, a top 10 centre and a top 5 winger all playing on the same club... but they have the pieces to be a team that really makes life difficult on people.

It's been the main frustration of Flames fans. There's been no middle ground for this team. If this team gave you a middle ground more often they'd likely be in the mix for top spot in the division.

In reality this is what they have:
2 all-star wingers.
2 top 20ish two-way centres (and before we have people crying here, I mean two centres that are defensively responsible and can still produce at a decent rate; guys that get <50% offensive deployment but still have great possession metrics and goal metrics).
A young mobile D
A top 5-10 goalie in the league.
4 centres that while non jump off the page as a 'elite' in terms of top 20 centres in the NHL, are all more than capable (like having Doc Ryan on the 4th line for example).

The thing for me is going to be what Sutter can get out of guys like Monahan and Bennett. Neither guy has developed like Flames fans have wanted. Is he going to be able to get playoff Bennett out of Sam during the regular season. Is he going to get Monahan to commit to being a top line centre in the league.

Flames fans don't expect a steamroller in terms of what kind of team Calgary will be... what we kind of expect is being a tough out for people. Not giving up a lot of chances, owning the puck... mostly because we know what this team can do when they're rolling.

 

[JKG33]

Richards was out of the league a year after winning that second cup. Now lets talk about the rest of the forward lineup behind Kopitar, Richards, and Carter in 2011/12....Williams....Brown.....and then Jarett Stoll with a whopping 21 points in 78 games.

I think the Flames are still a long shot, but to write them off because they don't have the offensive depth is absurd. If Sutter is able to get a full effort out of this team, they'll be fine. The Flames finished first and tied for most goals in the West just 2 seasons ago.

Its a good thing I was talking about the cup wins tho, where Richards was unreal especially during that first run and the 2013 loss. Brown was also legit. Don't write off Williams who, ya know, won a conn smythe. Stoll was a tremendous shutdown/matchup center. Penner was valuable on that run too.

The Flames absolutely don't have the forward depth, nor do they have the top end talent. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to takeoff the red glasses.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Well. Here's the thing, Flames have the pieces to be a really hard out.
Not they have an elite team where you have a Norris D, a Selke C, a top 10 centre and a top 5 winger all playing on the same club... but they have the pieces to be a team that really makes life difficult on people.

It's been the main frustration of Flames fans. There's been no middle ground for this team. If this team gave you a middle ground more often they'd likely be in the mix for top spot in the division.

In reality this is what they have:
2 all-star wingers.
2 top 20ish two-way centres (and before we have people crying here, I mean two centres that are defensively responsible and can still produce at a decent rate; guys that get <50% offensive deployment but still have great possession metrics and goal metrics).
A young mobile D
A top 5-10 goalie in the league.
4 centres that while non jump off the page as a 'elite' in terms of top 20 centres in the NHL, are all more than capable (like having Doc Ryan on the 4th line for example).

The thing for me is going to be what Sutter can get out of guys like Monahan and Bennett. Neither guy has developed like Flames fans have wanted. Is he going to be able to get playoff Bennett out of Sam during the regular season. Is he going to get Monahan to commit to being a top line centre in the league.

Flames fans don't expect a steamroller in terms of what kind of team Calgary will be... what we kind of expect is being a tough out for people. Not giving up a lot of chances, owning the puck... mostly because we know what this team can do when they're rolling.

In looking at the goalies, was there an injury issue that Markstrom and Rittich have split time fairly evenly? Their numbers look fairly similar. Is that more a reflection of the team in front of them as neither stands out? I know Markstrom was good last summer for Vancouver.

 

[thaman8765678]

I enjoyed his interview today where he said there are 3 elite teams in the division. Toronto, Montreal and Winnipeg.

 

[Bond]

I enjoyed his interview today where he said there are 3 elite teams in the division. Toronto, Montreal and Winnipeg.

Unfinished business is the best quote from that interview

 

[Volica]

High PDO or not no coach has taken better rosters deeper than Hartley. Again either Hartley wasn't nearly as bad as some love to claim or Trev is terrible at finding coaches. Hartley even lost his #1 defenseman.

I mean, he beat an equally bad Vancouver in the first round.
I think they're all bad coaches to various degrees. Treliving isn't escaping without a lot of criticism here, his job day 1 should have bene to hire a legitimate NHL coach.

I get what he was doing though.

Hartley had no structure to his game, in a league that was moving completely to puck possession.
He hired Gulutzan on the back of guys like Cooper finding a lot of success. A young coach with not a lot of experience, but that was an analytics and philosophy guy. He just didn't work.
You bring in Peters who I think got the most out of this roster in year 1. They were tough to play against, they had crazy structure, they dominated teams most nights. The second year was just bleh. Almost like he got tuned out.
He gets cancelled and you just kind of shoehorn in Ward, who is a beloved guy in the locker room/outside of the rink; he gets the guys playing well you give him an extended look to see if he's the guy who could kind of be that hidden gem. Clearly he's not, either his coaching style doesn't work, or the guys didn't care enough.

In terms of my opinion.
Treliving holds the most blame for Calgary's failure the past 3-4 years. The core group then have the next amount of responsibility in terms of blame. Coaches are just the easiest guys to move on from.