Flames fire Geoff Ward, name Darryl Sutter head coach

[CantHaveTkachev]

Beat me to that. Think Scotty Bowman was a retread/dinosaur when he went to Pittsburgh AND Detroit too.

Bowman took over the defending Stanley Cup champions and a 103-point Red Wing team...

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ultimately I think this move will show Calgary's true colours.

If they're just not good enough, Sutter can't fix that and they'll hover around .500 like his late-stage LA teams. Not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a top pick.

If they're not working hard enough or Ward really was the dumbest man in the NHL, Sutter will turn that around quick.

It'll also show what the Flames real problem is. If it's that they can't score, Sutter is the exact wrong guy to turn that around. If they're underachieving defensively and are capable of really locking it down and winning games 2-1 with the personnel they have, then Sutter is your guy for sure.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Bowman took over the defending Stanley Cup champions and a 103-point Red Wing team...

And won Stanley Cups.

 

[tmurfin]

I've always been of the opinion that yeah, while he wasn't a great GM on record, I don't think he deserves as much criticism as he gets. I feel like some of the acquisitions and trades he did was because he got players he felt fit a role if he were coaching them but the coaches he hired didn't see or execute the same way he would have. Remember, he was one of the last people who did both coach and GM duties full time before ownership made him stick with GM. He even said during an interview once that he would have much preferred to be behind the bench.

His drafting record is pretty atrocious though.

It’s not so much the body of work he did as GM, as it is the complete panic meltdown he had in his last year or two as GM. The Dion trade, paying a steep price for Jokinen only to basically give him away in another bad trade, than bring him back again even though it failed the first time, basically pushing Mike Cammaleri out the door after having a great season, in the middle of his prime, etc.. And yah the drafting, oh the drafting.

 

[Bond]

Ultimately I think this move will show Calgary's true colours.

If they're just not good enough, Sutter can't fix that and they'll hover around .500 like his late-stage LA teams. Not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a top pick.

If they're not working hard enough or Ward really was the dumbest man in the NHL, Sutter will turn that around quick.

It'll also show what the Flames real problem is. If it's that they can't score, Sutter is the exact wrong guy to turn that around. If they're underachieving defensively and are capable of really locking it down and winning games 2-1 with the personnel they have, then Sutter is your guy for sure.

Yup, I think this was ownership giving this core a last go. Doesn't seem like a Treliving hire to me. Part of why I am afraid he will be coach/GM again...

 

[Fig]

It’s not so much the body of work he did as GM, as it is the complete panic meltdown he had in his last year or two as GM. The Dion trade, paying a steep price for Jokinen only to basically give him away in another bad trade, than bring him back again even though it failed the first time, basically pushing Mike Cammaleri out the door after having a great season, in the middle of his prime, etc.. And yah the drafting, oh the drafting.

What's also crazy is the types of tools he had as GM. His scouting and trades were awful. But IIRC, I read that when he was GM, we had like 3-4 scouts total and he pushed to double that. I believe Feaster doubled the scouting staff again. Treliving/Burke increased the scouting staff and also fixed the horrific alignment issues that the farm team had vs the NHL club. We are talking crazy time zone/duration differences, coaches coaching a style totally different to the big club, support for prospects (mental health, additions, nutrition, studies etc.) and AHL coaches that were playing to win and fielding vets and never giving the prospects a chance (no development).

When Sutter was GM, believe our farm team was in the Maritimes, then Abbotsford. The problems was that there was combinations of insane travel for our farm teams/huge time zone differences when it was out East. Under Feaster it was in Abbotsford (Basically not far from Vancouver), but nearly all the other AHL teams were out East. Under Treliving, he moved the team to Adirondack (East), before working hard to swapping it out to Stockton (Cali) alongside helping other Western NHL teams get their farm teams established out West.

In the same way that Hartley is criticized for his failures after 2015, we currently have a roster that's 2-3 times more talented and better suited for that type of play. Hartley would have loved to have the rosters from 2018 onwards. His roster in 2014-2016 were basically no better than the current iteration of the Ottawa Senators.

Skilled players do not fail under Sutter, but he loves having a heavier team to surround skill with. A few tweaks to suit Sutter might be in order, but the Flames do indeed have enough of certain types of players that will be able to contribute to that type of play. TBH, we had more of those types of players in 2018 and as stupid as this might sound, I at times do wish we still had dudes like Hathaway and Lazar on our roster vs whatever types of vets we are fielding right now there.

Yup, I think this was ownership giving this core a last go. Doesn't seem like a Treliving hire to me. Part of why I am afraid he will be coach/GM again...

Agree with first part, not the second. I think ownership learned their lesson with Sutter AND Feaster. That's why King (RIP) was the QC and veto for so many years until Treliving and Burke dismantled it and demanded more autonomy. Even if Sutter becomes a GM, he would have someone like Treliving rounding out his weaknesses and supporting him as POHO.

More likely though, if owners want to cheap out on a GM, we have fricken 3 AGM and Maloney in the mix. Give Conroy a chance or choose Maloney if you want a retread over Trelving.

 

[BHD]

A warning since it's been posted a couple times...

Enough with the pic of Sloth from the Goonies. It's unnecessary and insensitive. Expect an infraction from here on out.

 

[Sol]

Sutter on his hiring: *unintelligible mumbling*

 

[Mitts]

LOL, I just remembered and was like gawd I’m getting roasted. Don’t know where my brain went there and won’t edit my crap post.

Good luck Flames! He’s actually a great fit now that I think about it.

Don’t post when you first wake up I guess.

Lmao I respect a guy who can admit his mistake yet refuse to edit original post, gave me a good laugh, not your original post, but your reaction to your own post. Cheers.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Ultimately I think this move will show Calgary's true colours.

If they're just not good enough, Sutter can't fix that and they'll hover around .500 like his late-stage LA teams. Not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a top pick.

If they're not working hard enough or Ward really was the dumbest man in the NHL, Sutter will turn that around quick.

It'll also show what the Flames real problem is. If it's that they can't score, Sutter is the exact wrong guy to turn that around. If they're underachieving defensively and are capable of really locking it down and winning games 2-1 with the personnel they have, then Sutter is your guy for sure.

Exactly. Spot on.

 

[IceNeophyte]

I'm not sure Sutter is the solution.....

 

[Mitts]

For Flames fans, congrats I guess.

As a neutral....more dead puck-esque hockey, joy.

Ah yes because lackadaisical zero intensity hockey is much better ?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why bring him in for three years though? Why not just hire him interim and let whoever Trevling's replacement is evaluate?

Passing up on Gallant for a retread seems like a mistake made by a desperate organization.

Maybe Alberta just loves its retreads.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

I'm not sure Sutter is the solution.....

I think the idea here is either things turn around under a very very good coach or they don't and we have the answer on what we need to do to the core. This is it for this core... either they play well under Sutter or this core will be blown to bits.

No more excuses of not having a good coach cause Sutter has proven to be an elite coach.

 

[Bond]

Why bring him in for three years though? Why not just hire him interim and let whoever Trevling's replacement is evaluate?

Passing up on Gallant for a retread seems like a mistake made by a desperate organization.

Maybe Alberta just loves its retreads.

I think it is more a message to the players that is it. His contract lines up with Gio, Backlund, Gaudreau, and Monahan.
Tre has been a mixed bag but overall he has been decent. Only a few real bad blunders in Neal and Hamonic

 

[rocketdan9]

GM: you fool, you benched playoff goat Sam Bennett. You're fired!

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think the idea here is either things turn around under a very very good coach or they don't and we have the answer on what we need to do to the core. This is it for this core... either they play well under Sutter or this core will be blown to bits.

No more excuses of not having a good coach cause Sutter has proven to be an elite coach.

I think they want to see if this get an instant reaction from the players, and lights a fire under their arse since they need to turn it around relatively quickly. Giving Sutter a multi-year contract is a motivator that if they loaf around, they won't be on the roster in the future since Sutter won't be impressed.

That being said I'm not sure how much Sutter can turn it around in 32 games in a condensed schedule from a structure POV. I guess the Flames are hoping they can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that into the playoffs.

 

[blankall]

Why bring him in for three years though? Why not just hire him interim and let whoever Trevling's replacement is evaluate?

Passing up on Gallant for a retread seems like a mistake made by a desperate organization.

Maybe Alberta just loves its retreads.

Sutter probably wouldn't agree to return to the NHL without a multi-year contract. Why would Sutter agree to be paid for 2 months of work on a trial basis?

 

[blankall]

I think they want to see if this get an instant reaction from the players, and lights a fire under their arse since they need to turn it around relatively quickly. Giving Sutter a multi-year contract is a motivator that if they loaf around, they won't be on the roster in the future since Sutter won't be impressed.

That being said I'm not sure how much Sutter can turn it around in 32 games in a condensed schedule from a structure POV. I guess the Flames are hoping they can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that into the playoffs.

If Sutter works out, 32 games is more than enough. The Flames are at .500 and 2 points back of a playoff spot. The main issue in Calgary has been total lack of effort up and down the roster, with a few exceptions. Even with the awful start, the Flames still have 4 forwards at around a 70 point pace. The n they have Mangiapane, Dube, and Backlund at around .5 ppg. The pieces are all there. If Sutter can get the team to play with intensity, this season is easily salvageable.

 

[Del Preston]

Is he allowed to join the Flames right away, or what is the protocol this season?

Edit:

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think it is more a message to the players that is it. His contract lines up with Gio, Backlund, Gaudreau, and Monahan.
Tre has been a mixed bag but overall he has been decent. Only a few real bad blunders in Neal and Hamonic

Assuming that this hiring was done above his head, he's had a poor track record with coaches.

And it's always been "This is message time" for the Flames. Giordano's been with this team for over a decade and he has yet to play in the second round (he didn't play in 2015 before anyone corrects me). Trevling has really done this team no favours since he was hired.

The problem in Calgary starts at the top. No real direction for this team at all.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sutter probably wouldn't agree to return to the NHL without a multi-year contract. Why would Sutter agree to be paid for 2 months of work on a trial basis?

If that's the case then you go look for someone else. It's clear that Brad Trevling's time is nearly at an end for the team. Why not go GM hunting instead?

 

[blankall]

If that's the case then you go look for someone else. It's clear that Brad Trevling's time is nearly at an end for the team. Why not go GM hunting instead?

No actual coach with experience is going to disrupt their life by coaching a team for 2 months on a trial basis. All the good coaches always demand lucrative and stable deals. This isn't some AHL hire looking to prove their worth.

It was also probably the owners, and no Treliving, who made this move. The team probably is GM shopping, but replacing the GM mid-season has no real effect on the team, so it's less urgent.

 

[MikeK]

If that's the case then you go look for someone else. It's clear that Brad Trevling's time is nearly at an end for the team. Why not go GM hunting instead?

I imagine it's a lot easier to find a new coach than a GM, especially with a trade deadline on the horizon They weren't going to make major player movements this season anyway so if a GM replacement is in the future it makes sense to do that in the offseason. A coaching change has always been and will always be the easiest and quickest fix. Sutter's term is irrelevant. A new GM can still bring in their guy.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

No actual coach with experience is going to disrupt their life by coaching a team for 2 months on a trial basis. All the good coaches always demand lucrative and stable deals. This isn't some AHL hire looking to prove their worth.

It was also probably the owners, and no Treliving, who made this move. The team probably is GM shopping, but replacing the GM mid-season has no real effect on the team, so it's less urgent.

I dunno, I feel like someone could very easily earn tenure especially with an incoming GM.

And it probably was the owners who made the move, which just raises further questions. You've already basically selected the coach for the next GM, just seems like backwards thinking and might scare a few guys away who would want to bring in their own coach.