Firing Darcy Right Now Isn't Fixing Anything

[Jim Bob]

Given Regiers trades, recently, and putting all bloodthirst aside, do you think it would be both rational as well as plausible that, if the report is true, that Regier is waiting to maximize his value on his assets?

Or perhaps TPeg is in love with Vanek and Miller and is holding out hope of re-signing them.

Regier has to get TPeg's approval to move those guys and I wouldn't be shocked if TPeg wanted to wait before moving them.

 

[Clock]

After 16+ years?

After what has happend on Regier's watch since Pegula's purchase? Really?

I'm not disagreeing that he should've been fired, I'm disagreeing that there's no such thing as a wrong time to do it.

Not to play "gotcha", but Regier himself said that maximizing the most value out of a Vanek and Miller trade would be to trade them while they still had a full season remaining on their contract. So he's already beyong maximizing any sort of deal for them. Too late, as usual.

Shrug. That's too reductionist for me to buy. I have little doubt that if Regier felt that he had the right package, triggers would've been pulled. His track record with trades as of late hasn't been nearly as buffoonish as some would make it out to be.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Rolston's a different story. I'll willingly concede that I didn't like the choice from day 1. Alas, here we are.

I assume his tenure won't last past the season's end, maybe sooner.

I didn't like it either.


But my point is there is one man to blame for Rolston and that's Darcy. He failed making the biggest decision of the last 15 years.

 

[SabreBlood]

Strike me down...give in to your anger...

I will not give in to the dark side!!!!

 

[RazielMoshman]

I like the youth, they show enthusiasm and a raw style of play I'm enjoying watching. I'm even enjoying the mistakes oddly, they are great kids.

Other than Vanek, Hodgson (not sure he counts as a veteran) and of course Miller our Veterans have been incredible disappointing. I expect it from Stafford, but I hoped for better from Ennis, Ott, Myers and the others. That is the real shame this season.

I would like Regier gone and the kids promoted to top line minutes for 2-3 games. If for no reason other than to teach the veterans a lesson.

 

[SabreBlood]

I'm not disagreeing that he should've been fired, I'm disagreeing that there's no such thing as a wrong time to do it.

For the ridiculous amount of time that he's been here, for what he's done with the team in the 16+ seasons leading up to this point, for me, there is no wrong time to do it because of those things. The longevity and the results with that longevity are why I feel this way. If he were just year or two in, then I would agree with you in that there is a wrong time to do it. But he's even done enough bad in the last couple of seasons to justify it.

I loved the Gaustad trade. I loved the Hodgson trade. Aside from those two moves, what else positive is there?

Shrug. That's too reductionist for me to buy. I have little doubt that if Regier felt that he had the right package, triggers would've been pulled. His track record with trades as of late hasn't been nearly as buffoonish as some would make it out to be.

My problem with Regier is that he squeezes to a fault a lot of the time. I'm not at all convinced that he didn't have potential deals offered for Vanek or Miller that would have helped to expedite this rebuild, and helped the Sabres in the future.

 

[SabreBlood]

Rolston's a different story. I'll willingly concede that I didn't like the choice from day 1. Alas, here we are.

I assume his tenure won't last past the season's end, maybe sooner.

If that's the case, what else do you need to be convinced that Regier absolutely has to go? Choosing the wrong head coach after not even searching for more candidates is about as pathetic a move one can execute in his position.

 

[SabreBlood]

I didn't like it either.


But my point is there is one man to blame for Rolston and that's Darcy. He failed making the biggest decision of the last 15 years.

Boom.

 

[Jame]

I didn't like it either.


But my point is there is one man to blame for Rolston and that's Darcy. He failed making the biggest decision of the last 15 years.

If the Sabres end up with the #1 pick, and draft Reinhart... and Reinhart becomes a Jonathan Toews level player, who leads this team out of the darkness and into the future, and Raskita Ristorov are locking down the back end.... in hindsight, is Regier the best GM ever?

 

[Karate Johnson*]

If the Sabres end up with the #1 pick, and draft Reinhart... and Reinhart becomes a Jonathan Toews level player, who leads this team out of the darkness and into the future, and Raskita Ristorov are locking down the back end.... in hindsight, is Regier the best GM ever?

I think we could accomplish all of this with a coach qualified to coach an NHL team.

If Darcy hired RR as a patsy knowing he was the only one that could tank this season, and he, Pegula and Black sit around drinking scotch after every game laughing about how bad the team is he is operating at a level beyond my comprehension.

And I would live to believe that, but something doesn't add up.

If the org is tanking on purpose, an RR was retained because he is bad, why are Vanek and Miller still here? And why are the youngsters being exposed to this disaster?


If we were awful, and the sheltered the Teenagers from it in the minors, and they unloaded Miller and Vanek in the offseason everything would make a lot more sense.


When you look at the entire situation as a whole certain parts can't fit together in any narrative, unless you assume Regier ha made some mistakes, namely Rolston.

 

[Sabre Dance]

If the Sabres end up with the #1 pick, and draft Reinhart... and Reinhart becomes a Jonathan Toews level player, who leads this team out of the darkness and into the future, and Raskita Ristorov are locking down the back end.... in hindsight, is Regier the best GM ever?

There is another part to this though. What if the Sabres get close again, which means all these picks work out but they need a couple pieces, do you think Regier is the right GM for that?

The drafting players part may be the easy part for a team picking top 3, putting together a cup team is hard. A lot of teams have great players, top picks, but dont win cups. Got to put the right players together at the right time.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

That is my reason for wanting to replace Darcy.


I believe he is too cautious, too conservative, and too difficult to deal with in the trade market( I obviously have no first hand experience, but this has been rumored)

But back to my issue with him.... I feel he could build a very good team. I think he struggles with the mindset that you can mortgage the future when you get close in order to push a team over the edge.

I would prefer a GM with a more aggressive approach. That's just me.

 

[Duddy]

Yeah, Darcy is so stupid and not selling the dollar for 75 cents.

He should be more Jay Feaster esque. Aside from the Ott for Roy trade, Darcy is damn fine when it comes to trading. That's probably one of the few things you can't criticize about Darcy.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Yeah, Darcy is so stupid and not selling the dollar for 75 cents.

He should be more Jay Feaster esque. Aside from the Ott for Roy trade, Darcy is damn fine when it comes to trading. That's probably one of the few things you can't criticize about Darcy.

What?

 

[Jame]

There is another part to this though. What if the Sabres get close again, which means all these picks work out but they need a couple pieces, do you think Regier is the right GM for that?

I will analyze/judge/react to the specifics at that time. I think your view will be drastically different than mine.

The drafting players part may be the easy part for a team picking top 3, putting together a cup team is hard. A lot of teams have great players, top picks, but dont win cups. Got to put the right players together at the right time.

I completely agree... like adding Briere/Drury/Grier/Lydman/Teppo to a young group of NHLers Connolly/Pyatt/Dumont/Kotalik/Max/Tallinder/Campbell.... with a good stable of prospects Vanek/Roy/Poms/ETC

People forget how truly terrible the 02/03 Sabres were... Seriously...only TWO teams WON LESS games than the Sabres that year... they were ****ing atrociously bad. They were today's Sabres with Much LESS in the pipeline. And slightly more on the present roster...

That's my bottom line with Regier... there are many things impacting the big picture over the years (ownership primarily)... but amongst all that ridiculousness... a contender was built.

some people think it was blind luck... i think that's a silly position

I think he did a good job, and can probably do it again with MORE resources and a much better ownership situation.

 

[Moskau]

would prefer a GM with a more aggressive approach. That's just me.

There are 30 GMs in the league and apparently none of them are aggressive. You have Jay Feaster last night saying that he expects nothing around the league to happen before the end of November because of the salary cap. Why is Darcy always the GM singled out for being passive when year after year there are no trades before the trade deadline? I find it hilarious that people complain that Vanek wasn't traded this year or last year and yet multiple GMs have said already that teams are only interested in people with cheap contracts at the moment.

The guy was passive before the 1st lockout but a lot of it had to do with being on a tight budget team. And the few times Darcy has been very aggressive it hasn't exactly panned out. Ville Leino was an aggressive move. Christian Ehrhoff was an aggressive move that worked out brilliantly but most of it will be lost to a rebuilding team.

 

[Jame]

There are 30 GMs in the league and apparently none of them are aggressive. You have Jay Feaster last night saying that he expects nothing around the league to happen before the end of November because of the salary cap. Why is Darcy always the GM singled out for being passive when year after year there are no trades before the trade deadline? I find it hilarious that people complain that Vanek wasn't traded this year or last year and yet multiple GMs have said already that teams are only interested in people with cheap contracts at the moment.

The guy was passive before the 1st lockout but a lot of it had to do with being on a tight budget team. And the few times Darcy has been very aggressive it hasn't exactly panned out. Ville Leino was an aggressive move. Christian Ehrhoff was an aggressive move that worked out brilliantly but most of it will be lost to a rebuilding team.

yea... I wish Darcy was aggressive like Burke and Holmgren

yea... aggressive... gimme more Leino contracts and hail mary's

:

 

[Sabre Dance]

I will analyze/judge/react to the specifics at that time. I think your view will be drastically different than mine.



I completely agree... like adding Briere/Drury/Grier/Lydman/Teppo to a young group of NHLers Connolly/Pyatt/Dumont/Kotalik/Max/Tallinder/Campbell.... with a good stable of prospects Vanek/Roy/Poms/ETC

People forget how truly terrible the 02/03 Sabres were... Seriously...only TWO teams WON LESS games than the Sabres that year... they were ****ing atrociously bad. They were today's Sabres with Much LESS in the pipeline. And slightly more on the present roster...

That's my bottom line with Regier... there are many things impacting the big picture over the years (ownership primarily)... but amongst all that ridiculousness... a contender was built.

some people think it was blind luck... i think that's a silly position

I think he did a good job, and can probably do it again with MORE resources and a much better ownership situation.

I feel Regier did get luck with the 2005 team, but he did put it together. My issue there is its pretty much impossible to repeat that, trade for 2nd line veteran players and have them become 1st line quality. And i also feel he chose the wrong player to keep, and he did it over and over again.

The problem is we dont know who was really calling the shots, but if you dont think regier was then its hard to give him credit for building the 2005 team also. So I just say Regier was in charge.

I have given Regier the benefit of the doubt, that ended when I felt the Rochester core he shoved down our throats was not good enough. It ended after Regier spent to the cap and failed to make the playoffs. I dont need to see that again. In fact his terrible management is going to haunt this team for a while. the contracts he handed out have been a disaster since Pegula took over.

I do think Regier is a quality hockey guy who works best on a strict budget, a place where failure can be excused. We are not that place anymore. Failure should never be excused, and when given the resources Regier used them to the max and failed.

 

[thefifagod]

I'm in no rush to fire Regier because it will accomplish absolutely nothing. All it will do is appease the majority of the fan-base who are impatient and won't embrace the rebuild. I have faith that he will be able to get quality value for our pending UFA's at the deadline and right now that's the most important thing to come from this season (that's in his control, clearly there should be a higher effort level from the team as a whole but that's the coach's job). I believe he is the person who can lead the rebuild; if you don't, so be it, but fire him after the season then, not now.

While this is not where we envisioned the team when Pegula took over, Regier finally admitted the Rochester core wasn't good enough and quickly turned our prospect pool into a top 5 pool (3rd on HF I believe). I mean, 3 years ago players like Luke Adam and Kevin Sundher were in our top 5, now we have an extremely deep pool and have quality players past the top 10. By adding to that group with the 2014 draft, a draft that we will have an abundance of picks in (highlighted by our own 1st round pick, our chance to add a franchise player talent to the pool), the team is positioning themselves extremely well for the future. Nobody expected them to be this bad in the present but it's the suffering I'm willing to embrace for future gain.

 

[sabresEH]

You are misunderstanding.

Patting yourself on the back for being a good regular season team is silly. Winning 60 games and losi g in round 1 is worse than winning 30 games and missing the playoffs.

I understood exactly what u were saying. Just being a bit of a dick. Its not like anyone in Buffalo went all Vancouver about our presidents trophy but it is something to be proud of.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

There are 30 GMs in the league and apparently none of them are aggressive. You have Jay Feaster last night saying that he expects nothing around the league to happen before the end of November because of the salary cap. Why is Darcy always the GM singled out for being passive when year after year there are no trades before the trade deadline? I find it hilarious that people complain that Vanek wasn't traded this year or last year and yet multiple GMs have said already that teams are only interested in people with cheap contracts at the moment.

The guy was passive before the 1st lockout but a lot of it had to do with being on a tight budget team. And the few times Darcy has been very aggressive it hasn't exactly panned out. Ville Leino was an aggressive move. Christian Ehrhoff was an aggressive move that worked out brilliantly but most of it will be lost to a rebuilding team.

I'm not talking about making a boatload of trades at this moment.... It's going to be extremely difficult to trade Vanek and miller now. They are UFA's to be and nobody has cap space.

I want a guy who will take a team he has built and sell out to improve it

 

[heartsabres*]

I'm not talking about making a boatload of trades at this moment.... It's going to be extremely difficult to trade Vanek and miller now. They are UFA's to be and nobody has cap space.

I want a guy who will take a team he has built and sell out to improve it

Huh?

 

[kenfury]

I feel Regier did get luck with the 2005 team, but he did put it together. My issue there is its pretty much impossible to repeat that, trade for 2nd line veteran players and have them become 1st line quality. And i also feel he chose the wrong player to keep, and he did it over and over again.

The problem is we dont know who was really calling the shots, but if you dont think regier was then its hard to give him credit for building the 2005 team also. So I just say Regier was in charge.

I have given Regier the benefit of the doubt, that ended when I felt the Rochester core he shoved down our throats was not good enough. It ended after Regier spent to the cap and failed to make the playoffs. I dont need to see that again. In fact his terrible management is going to haunt this team for a while. the contracts he handed out have been a disaster since Pegula took over.

I do think Regier is a quality hockey guy who works best on a strict budget, a place where failure can be excused. We are not that place anymore. Failure should never be excused, and when given the resources Regier used them to the max and failed.

I think things would have been very different if due to ownership we could have kept Dumont, Campbell, Drury, Briere. Those were assets that left due to lack of spending by ownership and excluding a 1st for Campbell got nothing back. Now think of the guys that came up from the Rochester core. MacAurthur, Gragani, Butler, Kennedy, Paesch, Mancari, Roy. IF the first group did not leave due to ownership the Rochester core could have been moved for better players. It is all about asset management and the sabres backs were against the wall due to tight purse strings.

For example:
Would the Stafford for Horton Deal happened if JP was still holding down 2nd line winger?
What about the Kotalik for Salo? Afinogenov for Mike Fisher, Brennan and MacAurthur for Valteri Filppula, MacAurthur and a 2nd for Guerin? Mike Ribero for Stafford and Roy? What could have Roy gotten if he was not needed to plug the hold in C left by Briere/Drury? Pretend it is Ott in 2008. How would that have changed the team for the better. I am not talking about specific deal but a glut of players we could have had were they not forced up early to cover players leaving due to money.

Basically my point is that in the same way that poor drafting by a team takes 4-6 years to really show up all the way to the NHL team poor management of players takes an equally long time and we are still dealing with the repercussions of 2005-2008. On the bright side the pipeline is flush again and the ship has been righted even if it is not going in the direction we want it to yet.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I think things would have been very different if due to ownership we could have kept Dumont, Campbell, Drury, Briere. Those were assets that left due to lack of spending by ownership and excluding a 1st for Campbell got nothing back. Now think of the guys that came up from the Rochester core. MacAurthur, Gragani, Butler, Kennedy, Paesch, Mancari, Roy. IF the first group did not leave due to ownership the Rochester core could have been moved for better players. It is all about asset management and the sabres backs were against the wall due to tight purse strings.

For example:
Would the Stafford for Horton Deal happened if JP was still holding down 2nd line winger?
What about the Kotalik for Salo? Afinogenov for Mike Fisher, Brennan and MacAurthur for Valteri Filppula, MacAurthur and a 2nd for Guerin? Mike Ribero for Stafford and Roy? What could have Roy gotten if he was not needed to plug the hold in C left by Briere/Drury? Pretend it is Ott in 2008. How would that have changed the team for the better. I am not talking about specific deal but a glut of players we could have had were they not forced up early to cover players leaving due to money.

Basically my point is that in the same way that poor drafting by a team takes 4-6 years to really show up all the way to the NHL team poor management of players takes an equally long time and we are still dealing with the repercussions of 2005-2008. On the bright side the pipeline is flush again and the ship has been righted even if it is not going in the direction we want it to yet.

I get all the that, but what happened when Pegula got here? Why did he spend to the cap? Why did he then tear it apart before firing the coach?

Just too many strange moves. I am seeing very poor management even with Pegula.

Acquiring draft picks is a strength of Darcy's, but where does that get you? My fear is 5 years from now we are in the exact same spot we were with the old core. A bunch of players that look good on paper but dont fit well together.

 

[heartsabres*]

I get all the that, but what happened when Pegula got here? Why did he spend to the cap? Why did he then tear it apart before firing the coach?

Just too many strange moves. I am seeing very poor management even with Pegula.

Acquiring draft picks is a strength of Darcy's, but where does that get you? My fear is 5 years from now we are in the exact same spot we were with the old core. A bunch of players that look good on paper but dont fit well together.

I can explain it to you if you like....Short answer, management thought they were close.....throw money at BIG UFA´s to win the cup. UFA´s said no ie, Doan, Richards....I am guessing but then management sat down and said no superstar center wants to play in the town of Buffalo so lets try to draft one and build from there.(Of course one with the first overall pick)

Pretty simple if you ask me.