Firing Darcy Right Now Isn't Fixing Anything

[kenfury]

I can explain it to you if you like....Short answer, management thought they were close.....throw money at BIG UFA´s to win the cup. UFA´s said no ie, Doan, Richards....I am guessing but then management sat down and said no superstar center wants to play in the town of Buffalo so lets try to draft one and build from there.(Of course one with the first overall pick)

Pretty simple if you ask me.

Vanek - Richards - Doan
Pominville - Roy - Stafford (coming off a 31g season)
Hecht - Goose - Ennis
Gerbe - McCormick - Kaleta

x Ellis, Mair

Could have done damage. To say nothing if they landed Suter and Parise. Basically they would be where the Wild are now. A good team looking to add not rebuild. But it didnt work out that way so we are going the other way.

 

[Jame]

I feel Regier did get luck with the 2005 team, but he did put it together. My issue there is its pretty much impossible to repeat that, trade for 2nd line veteran players and have them become 1st line quality. And i also feel he chose the wrong player to keep, and he did it over and over again.

The problem is we dont know who was really calling the shots, but if you dont think regier was then its hard to give him credit for building the 2005 team also. So I just say Regier was in charge.

I have given Regier the benefit of the doubt, that ended when I felt the Rochester core he shoved down our throats was not good enough. It ended after Regier spent to the cap and failed to make the playoffs. I dont need to see that again. In fact his terrible management is going to haunt this team for a while. the contracts he handed out have been a disaster since Pegula took over.

I do think Regier is a quality hockey guy who works best on a strict budget, a place where failure can be excused. We are not that place anymore. Failure should never be excused, and when given the resources Regier used them to the max and failed.

viewpoints made to fit preconceived notion

 

[SabreBlood]

viewpoints made to fit preconceived notion

Something you NEVER do

There were plenty of valid points in that post. Especially in the second half of it.

 

[Jame]

Something you NEVER do

There were plenty of valid points in that post. Especially in the second half of it.

His perception of the Golisano years is not the reality of those years

 

[Clock]

I get all the that, but what happened when Pegula got here? Why did he spend to the cap?

Because at the time we had what appeared to be a reasonable playoff team that might just need the extra push to contend.

Why did he then tear it apart before firing the coach?

... because after the above experiment failed, it became clear that that same roster didn't have what it takes. Ruff was fired shortly after.

Just too many strange moves. I am seeing very poor management even with Pegula.

I don't see how you can view those moves, sans hindsight, as being "strange." The moves they've exhibited are that of a management which is clearly trying to push this team toward being something better and altering their strategies when it becomes obvious that they aren't working. Ignoring the context of that to push an agenda is simply not convincing.

Acquiring draft picks is a strength of Darcy's, but where does that get you?

Well, it gets you a better chance to good players on your roster, right?

My fear is 5 years from now we are in the exact same spot we were with the old core. A bunch of players that look good on paper but dont fit well together.

And that could very well happen. There aren't any guarantees. All you can do is increase your odds of success.

Firing everyone, including the ownership, doesn't change any of the uncertainty.

Failure should never be excused, and when given the resources Regier used them to the max and failed.

I would love to know what your definition of "success" in this context is and what you think Regier realistically could have done with the resources he was given that would've satisfied that definition while being cognizant of the environment at the time.

 

[Jame]

Because at the time we had what appeared to be a reasonable playoff team that might just need the extra push to contend.



... because after the above experiment failed, it became clear that that same roster didn't have what it takes. Ruff was fired shortly after.



I don't see how you can view those moves, sans hindsight, as being "strange." The moves they've exhibited are that of a management which is clearly trying to push this team toward being something better and altering their strategies when it becomes obvious that they aren't working. Ignoring the context of that to push an agenda is simply not convincing.



Well, it gets you a better chance to good players on your roster, right?



And that could very well happen. There aren't any guarantees. All you can do is increase your odds of success.

Firing everyone, including the ownership, doesn't change any of the uncertainty.



I would love to know what your definition of "success" in this context is and what you think Regier realistically could have done with the resources he was given that would've satisfied that definition while being cognizant of the environment at the time.

well said...
but it shouldn't have to be said every 4 days

 

[Sabre Dance]

Because at the time we had what appeared to be a reasonable playoff team that might just need the extra push to contend.



... because after the above experiment failed, it became clear that that same roster didn't have what it takes. Ruff was fired shortly after.



I don't see how you can view those moves, sans hindsight, as being "strange." The moves they've exhibited are that of a management which is clearly trying to push this team toward being something better and altering their strategies when it becomes obvious that they aren't working. Ignoring the context of that to push an agenda is simply not convincing.



Well, it gets you a better chance to good players on your roster, right?



And that could very well happen. There aren't any guarantees. All you can do is increase your odds of success.

Firing everyone, including the ownership, doesn't change any of the uncertainty.



I would love to know what your definition of "success" in this context is and what you think Regier realistically could have done with the resources he was given that would've satisfied that definition while being cognizant of the environment at the time.

Yes, we have all talked about it. This whole debate is basically I feel Regier deserves to be fired. The argument I am getting from people is no he does not. That is where I get confused.

Can Regier build a winner? Sure he can. Does Regier do some things well? Yes he does. But this is not the discussion IMO. Lindy Ruff does some things well. Lindy Ruff could win. Did Lindy Ruff deserve to be fired? Yes.

So when people say fire Regier, IMO it is deserved. Why people argue against it makes no sense to me. Regier deserves to be fired more than he deserves another chance.

 

[Clock]

Yes, we have all talked about it. This whole debate is basically I feel Regier deserves to be fired. The argument I am getting from people is no he does not. That is where I get confused.

Because you have yet to articulate why it makes sense for him to be fired right now outside of bad reasoning like "fan frustration" or arguments predicated on hindsight.

 

[Zip15]

Because you have yet to articulate why it makes sense for him to be fired right now outside of bad reasoning like "fan frustration" or arguments predicated on hindsight.

Not to be a third man in, but I think that begs the question of when is the right time to fire him? After the season? Then you'll get people saying that's the wrong time because Regier and his scouting staff have scouted the draft class and the new GM will only have two months to put together his draft and UFA plans. Do you fire him after the draft and after free agency? At that point, you've tied your new GM to a draft class he may or may not have selected in the year in which he became GM, as well as the UFA contracts he's given out, which have consequences going forward.

I don't put much stock in this timing argument. If they fired Regier tomorrow and hired Botterill, I don't think there'd be much of a problem. Botterill could get familiar with the NHL and AHL personnel in a hurry--and I'm sure he's not clueless about either--and do a fine job.

I think you're either for firing Regier or against it, and I think if you're against it this timing argument is just a crutch. If the decision has been made that he's going to be fired in the foreseeable future, just do it and don't leave your future GM to live with more of a lame duck GM's decisions.

 

[Jim Bob]

Pre-Regier - The Sabres missed the playoffs 6 times in 27 seasons.

With Regier - The Sabres missed the playoffs 7 times in 15 seasons.

Granted, it's harder to make the playoffs now than it was prior to the NHL expanding to 30 teams. But, I don't get how the thought that Regier might not be the best choice for this team moving forward is somehow without merit.

The fact that Regier made Rolston the full time coach without a real search is a decision that could affect the team for a lot longer than RonRol is the coach.

I'm at the point where I don't really care about whether the team wins or not. That is the team that Regier has built. And it's sad.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Because you have yet to articulate why it makes sense for him to be fired right now outside of bad reasoning like "fan frustration" or arguments predicated on hindsight.

If its just about the present, it would depend on what Pegula and his advisers were expecting to see this year.

We keep hearing that they are evaluating the team and Christmas is a date things will start happening. Heard it again last game. As much as we talk about this was the plan, I really don't think this exact scenario was the plan. I think the team is performing below their already low expectations.

I think the coaching hire was very small market low budget, and that could be Regier's downfall.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I have a question, how much input does Devine have other than the draft? Would he take a promotion if Regier were put into a different role? Do they think a like, meaning if Regier liked Rolston does that mean Devine does?

I like Devine and I wonder if that could be a move the Sabres make. Keep Regier around as an advisor.

 

[Jame]

Yes, we have all talked about it. This whole debate is basically I feel Regier deserves to be fired. The argument I am getting from people is no he does not. That is where I get confused.

Can Regier build a winner? Sure he can. Does Regier do some things well? Yes he does. But this is not the discussion IMO. Lindy Ruff does some things well. Lindy Ruff could win. Did Lindy Ruff deserve to be fired? Yes.

So when people say fire Regier, IMO it is deserved. Why people argue against it makes no sense to me. Regier deserves to be fired more than he deserves another chance.

really? it makes no sense to you?

I want Regier to build a winner...you just admitted he can do that.... so how on earth could it make no sense to you when some people dont want him fired???

:wtf:

 

[Sabre Dance]

really? it makes no sense to you?

I want Regier to build a winner...you just admitted he can do that.... so how on earth could it make no sense to you when some people dont want him fired???

:wtf:

And Stafford can be a 30 goal scorer. You get my point, I hope.

 

[kenfury]

Because at the time we had what appeared to be a reasonable playoff team that might just need the extra push to contend.



... because after the above experiment failed, it became clear that that same roster didn't have what it takes. Ruff was fired shortly after.



I don't see how you can view those moves, sans hindsight, as being "strange." The moves they've exhibited are that of a management which is clearly trying to push this team toward being something better and altering their strategies when it becomes obvious that they aren't working. Ignoring the context of that to push an agenda is simply not convincing.



Well, it gets you a better chance to good players on your roster, right?



And that could very well happen. There aren't any guarantees. All you can do is increase your odds of success.

Firing everyone, including the ownership, doesn't change any of the uncertainty.



I would love to know what your definition of "success" in this context is and what you think Regier realistically could have done with the resources he was given that would've satisfied that definition while being cognizant of the environment at the time.

Well said.

 

[Jame]

And Stafford can be a 30 goal scorer. You get my point, I hope.

if your point was to make a terrible analogy

 

[Sabre Dance]

if your point was to make a terrible analogy

if you woke up tomorrow and read that the Sabres fired Regier what would your reaction be?

I would not be happy or upset, just say it was time to move on. I would guess you would criticize the organization.

 

[Jim Bob]

if your point was to make a terrible analogy

I think it was a pretty good one.

Just because Regier did something once doesn't mean he can do it again.

 

[Jame]

if you woke up tomorrow and read that the Sabres fired Regier what would your reaction be?

Who did they hire? What's his plan? What are his credentials?

I'm not married to Darcy. I know what he's capable of though. And I know what the plan is... and I'm on board with that plan.

98% of Buffalo fans have no idea about the track record of the majority of GMs that have had a job in this league the last decade... really... they have no clue. They have an emotional hatred of one of the last remaining pieces of the failure of the last 6 years....

sometimes you want someone fired so badly... and then you get Ron Rolston

I would not be happy or upset, just say it was time to move on. I would guess you would criticize the organization.

There's no reason to be a bald faced liar

 

[Jame]

I think it was a pretty good one.

Just because Regier did something once doesn't mean he can do it again.

what is being compared as "being done", aren't comparables

 

[Jim Bob]

what is being compared as "being done", aren't comparables

Some might argue that scoring 30 goals in a season is easier than successfully rebuilding an NHL team into real Cup contender, let alone a Cup winner.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Who did they hire? What's his plan? What are his credentials?

I'm not married to Darcy. I know what he's capable of though. And I know what the plan is... and I'm on board with that plan.

98% of Buffalo fans have no idea about the track record of the majority of GMs that have had a job in this league the last decade... really... they have no clue. They have an emotional hatred of one of the last remaining pieces of the failure of the last 6 years....

sometimes you want someone fired so badly... and then you get Ron Rolston



There's no reason to be a bald faced liar

My main point with Regier has been why does he deserve the chance to rebuild. Why does he deserve to sit at a press conference after his recent history and tell us suffering is coming.

Im not trying to make the argument that Regier can't do it. No one knows that.

Here is a list of GM's. I dont think Regier belongs with the other GM's that have around before 2000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_general_managers

 

[Jame]

My main point with Regier has been why does he deserve the chance to rebuild. Why does he deserve to sit at a press conference after his recent history and tell us suffering is coming.

deserve? why does the next guy deserve the same opportunity?

Im not trying to make the argument that Regier can't do it. No one knows that.

right... so you've know moved into a world where experience/ability/context is trumped by a narrow minded perception of track record.

Here is a list of GM's. I dont think Regier belongs with the other GM's that have around before 2000.

irrelevant.
take the performance of ALL GMs who have had the job at any point in the last 10 years. It's completely ****ing fickle...

Regier's track record is scrutinized because it's familiar here. And for those getting all emotional about our awful team, it's easy to forget the context with which that track record was acquired... or some, like yourself, just simply ignore it (quinn/golisano-co caps debacle, rigas money issues-dom/peca, etc).

It's a difficult job.... if they fired Regier and hired an experienced franchise builder... cool. if they fired regier and hired some young gun like many are talking (botteril).... then id probably be very worried.

Can someone point me to a list of "first time GMs having success"?
Some do (Shero), after like 15 years of being an assistant GM.

The Regier Hatred is ultimately a massive blinder in the faces of the majority of the fan base.

 

[hizzoner]

Some impartiality here would help. NO ONE is happy with the Sabres present status. But we are paying now for the loss of players who walked when management decided not to pay them and for downsizing our scouting staff. Buffalo also is not the preferred location for most high flying superstars so the Sabres overpay to get third tier guys and recently to keep our own. Those factors were not of Regier's making. Sure I called for his head last year--I was and still am emotionally steamed. But I cannot fault him for the Roy trade, the Gaustad trade, the Pominville trade, the Regehr trade, the Leopold trade..Nor can I say his drafts of last year and this year were anything but very promising. I am sure he offered Richards, Doan, Parise, Suter the same if not better money. We needed Scott in our lineup when the team took a collective pass on the Bruins-especially Lucic treating us like sissies and we cheered when he took on Thornton. Now he has a couple more blue chip players to deal with not an easy task to get value.. I will continue to rant and rave about every loss while understanding that it is darkest before the dawn. So to make an already long story short-I do not see anyone I have faith in who could do a better job in drafting and trading than Regier has done with the free hand he has had since Pegula took over. As to his coaching choices--not sold there...

 

[Freezerburn]

Not to be a third man in, but I think that begs the question of when is the right time to fire him? After the season? Then you'll get people saying that's the wrong time because Regier and his scouting staff have scouted the draft class and the new GM will only have two months to put together his draft and UFA plans. Do you fire him after the draft and after free agency? At that point, you've tied your new GM to a draft class he may or may not have selected in the year in which he became GM, as well as the UFA contracts he's given out, which have consequences going forward.

I don't put much stock in this timing argument. If they fired Regier tomorrow and hired Botterill, I don't think there'd be much of a problem. Botterill could get familiar with the NHL and AHL personnel in a hurry--and I'm sure he's not clueless about either--and do a fine job.

I think you're either for firing Regier or against it, and I think if you're against it this timing argument is just a crutch. If the decision has been made that he's going to be fired in the foreseeable future, just do it and don't leave your future GM to live with more of a lame duck GM's decisions.

Very strong post Zip. Timing is always an excuse/crutch that people use so that they don't have to make difficult decisions. It's never a bad time to get rid of bad management and I would argue that having a change made in the early stages of a rebuild is one of the better times.

I feel that he has simply worn out his welcome and I have no confidence is his ability to be successful in this rebuild, for that reason he has to go. I had this opinion before the team's results this year so my opinion is not based on the 1-9-1 start.